How to expose Islam?

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
sum
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How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

I am not aware of any of the media explaining the reason for Islamic terrorism by quoting the Koran. If the Koran or Muhammad have been quoted then I have missed it.

The progress of Islam in the West will continue unabated unless the masses become aware of what Islam truly stands for and how it will affect society in the long term. How can this be done?

I would suggest that all hate laws are repealed as well as all blasphemy laws. Will the Government do this or are Governments too afraid? Will they listen to a demand from the public to repeal these laws? If they will not do it now because of fear then as matters become worse there is even less probability that they will ever do it.

At present, it would appear that facts are no defence when Islam is criticised. This must be stopped.

At present, the muslims have pressured and out-smarted Governments in order to ring fence Islam against any form of criticism.

Any initial comments or suggestions?

sum

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

The blasphemy laws were repealed in England and Wales by Section 79 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008. This came into force in July 2008.
This followed a campaign by secularists which led to the then Labour Government abolishing the blasphemy laws. Dr Evan Harris, a Liberal Democrat MP at the time, said: “It should be seen as a secularising move, and with pride”.


SOURCE

However, the UK Labor Party are fully committed, if that country's voters are foolish enough to ever vote them in, to bringing in sharia blasphemy laws under the guise of combating "Islamophobia" which will criminalize any word, deed or non-violent action any Muslim says is "Islamophobic" (including placing the word "Islamophobia" in derisive quotation marks). This legislation is being pushed by the Muslim Council of Britain - Islamist wolves in not very convincing sheep's clothing. - who are constantly badgering the UK Conservative Party to sign up to a LEGAL DEFINITION OF ISLAMOPHOBIA.

From linked Guardian article:

The definition was set out in a report published by a cross-party group of MPs in December. “Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness,” it says.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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pr126
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by pr126 »

The public doesn't care much.
Those who would be speaking out against Islam will be silenced.

Europe will be Islamic before the end of this century. (Bernand Lewis)

Personally, at 77 I am not too worried any more.
I'll be long dead. No family or children to warn or worry about.

It is the will of Allah.

Besides, it is OK with the governments, right up and until they lose power (and life) to the more ferocious Islamic entity.

They are already deep inside the gates to repel any from the religion of peace.
Not going to happen without bloodshed and tears. Too late for that.

Yes, it is a pessimistic view, but schools are already preparing the young to accept the inevitable.

Trigger warning!
This will get rid of the snowflakes, LBGTQ, Trans, BLM and assorted flotsam.
No safe places for them in the Caliphate.
Now there is a thought.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

What the hell does "targeting Muslimness or perceived Muslimness" even MEAN? Haranguing a woman in a niqab for her choice of dress? There are already anti-harassment laws in place to punish people for such behavior and they would certainly be used with full force together with religious aggravation laws (which never seem to be used against Muslims - although I haven't looked into the matter too deeply). No, this is about giving Islam and it's followers in the UK the same special protection from criticism that they enjoy under Sharia and hence implanting a main plank of the Sharia into the UK legal system.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

pr126 wrote:The public doesn't care much.
Indeed, the fat greedy public will happily stuff their face with halal Subway sandwiches without a care in the world. The progressives will make a point of seeking out such eateries.


Trigger warning!
This will get rid of the snowflakes, LBGTQ, Trans, BLM and assorted flotsam.
No safe places for them in the Caliphate.
Now there is a thought.
Yeah you can picture the progressives lined up on scaffolds wondering what the hell's happening and vainly hoping that an army of placard-waving muslimahs they used to join on World Hijab Days will march up and rescue them. No, actually, there they are in the crowd:

"Oh, I say er Fatimah. Cooee! Yes hello.I think there's been a terrible mistake. These chaps with machetes seem to think I 'm a member of the far right or something. Could you explain to them that I'm a lifelong campaigner for immigrants rights and open borders? No sorry, my name's not Kafir. It's Dominic. Don't you remember? I used to help organise Halal Sausage Day in the park! Fatimaa..."

The pretty ones (men and women) will be getting gang raped somewhere.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

sum
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

Many thanks for your helpful post.

I do not think that there should be an acceptance or definition in any shape or form of the word "Islamophobia". To define it is surrender to the muslims and acceptance that muslims are being victimised. Time should not be wasted even discussing this matter. Islamophobia does not exist. Islamorealism does.

If our politicians had anything about them they would say that they do not accept the term and so there is nothing to discuss. Case closed.

Muslims must be met head on. It matters not one jot what the UN may believe or even the EU.

Free speech must prevail.

I see that Baroness Varsi is getting her spoke in again. She should be asked whether she accepts that non-muslims are the vilest of all creatures as Allah says. She ought to be pressured into giving an answer.

sum

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

According to THIS article from early 2019 35% of Britons then believed Islam to be s threat to the British way of life. And that despite a massive global Islam whitewashing effort since 9-11. Unfortunately for the whitewashers, millions of people are simply NOT going to disregard repeated atrocities and other abominations committed in the name of Allah when judging this religion. They are NOT just going to ignore the situation in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran and other self-proclaimed "Islamic" countries.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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pr126
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by pr126 »

Hello, sum
I see that Baroness Varsi is getting her spoke in again. She should be asked whether she accepts that non-muslims are the vilest of all creatures as Allah says. She ought to be pressured into giving an answer.
But Muslims are permitted to lie in the service of Islam. The sharia is clear on that.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:I see that Baroness Varsi is getting her spoke in again.
Just checked her out. She's a Brit Conservative parliamentarian then. I think I've seen her on YOUTUBE or somewhere. If it's the same person I'm thinking about she came across as very shrill and emotional .
She should be asked whether she accepts that non-muslims are the vilest of all creatures as Allah says.
The answer would likely be that it only applied to particular kafirs at the time of the verses alleged revelation, not all kafirs always. I think the no 1 question always to ask is on flogging "adulterers" 100 times without pity, as it stands alone and cannot be "contextualised" or claimed to only apply to people who have fought the muslims for their faith, drove them from their homes, broke their treaties etc.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

sum
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

I don`t mind what question is asked of Baroness Warsi so long as it is in the various media in order for the masses to read what she says. Muslims must be pressured in the public domain quite relentlessly.

The Koran must be exposed for the evil that it demands of the muslims. It should be made clear to the public that the Koran can be read on the net and for those who do not have the stamina to read the whole book then suggest that they read the final guidance - chapter 9 - when Allah declares war on the whole of non-muslim mankind. This will open the minds of those who read chapter 9 that Islam is not at all a peaceful religion.

If the reader is not a Christian or Jew then he will either have to convert or die. In Africa, when Christians who refuse to convert to Islam they are brutally killed and villages destroyed.

The question still remains - How do we get the move to expose Islam for what it is off the ground?

sum

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:then suggest that they read the final guidance - chapter 9 - when Allah declares war on the whole of non-muslim mankind. This will open the minds of those who read chapter 9 that Islam is not at all a peaceful religion.
Then some spokesperson will "contextualise" this verse (9.5) and claim it is purely defensive by bringing out verse 9:13:

Will you not fight a people who broke their treaties, plotted to expel the messenger and attacked you first?

This would allay the concerns of a lot of non-Muslims who have not the time or inclination to study the religion in much depth.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

Note in THIS TRANSLATION the application of verse 9.5 has been limited to Polytheists who 'violated their treaties'. Indeed, it is easy to see it being asserted that 9.5 is no longer applicable at all because it is limited to a particular time and place by the reference in 9.13 to those who "plotted to expel the messenger" (Muhammad), and that those who are inspired to indiscriminately carry it out in today's world are Islamically wrong to do so.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

sum
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

Is there anything at all in chapter 9 of the Koran which could be used to illustrate what Islam has in store for the non-muslims and which is totally unacceptable to non-muslims?

sum

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

Even if you point to verse 9.29 commanding that the People of the Book who do not accept Islam to be fought until they pay jizya, you're going to receive the response that it only applies to Jews and Christians of the time who, along with the other polytheists to be fought, as per 9.13, broke their treaties, plotted to expel the messenger etc. If you raise the hadith and biographies, which do clearly present Islam as a fundamentally aggressive expansionist movement bent on world conquest you will be met with doubt being cast on the authenticity of these sources. There are a tiny minority of Quran-only Muslims who do genuinely want to de-nasty Islam. Most of this I am sure is just dissimulaton by orthodox sunni Muslims following the dictum "warfare is deceit".
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

There is verse 4.34 (?) commanding wife beating. The yusuf Ali translation has the word "gently" in brackets, which indicates that it is not in the originals Arabic text. In fact it's a reference to a hadith. If any apologist refers to that hadith to ameliorate the wife beating command then they have opened up a whole can of worms like the matter of a certain Ayesha, which can then be pursued.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

sum
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

Are there any verses in Chapter 9 that explain ongoing hostility of muslims towards non-muslims?

sum

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

The whole book amounts to little more than a tirade against disbelievers: Jews, Christians and anybody else who does not accept it's claims.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

sum
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

I agree with your last post but there are specific verses in chapter 9 that could be quoted.

Koran 5:33 could also be quoted where "waging war against Allah and Muhammad" includes disbelief in Islam and refusing to convert. Ibn Kathir is the most respected Islamic commentator and whose views should be regarded as superior to others including the scholar that you provided in the earlier post, although he was not commenting on 5:33. Disbelief has a possible death sentence or crucifixion or mutilation.

In earlier days in the forum, a muslim told me that I should be killed according to my views. I do not think that there is a genuinely acceptable interpretation of the Koran that is not massively aggressive and hateful towards non-muslims. Do not forget that all muslims are to fight until all religion is for Allah and the Koran supports every stratagem of war.

sum

antineoETC
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Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by antineoETC »

Sum. Winston Churchill famously observed:

"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."

Our friends have set such a bodyguard around their creed to conceal its dark heart and dark goals so as to lull the western public into a false sense of security about what they are letting into their midst and ensure that it is allowed continued unhindered entry.

Shortly after 9-11, a Muslim spokesman came on the TV explaining that the actions of the terrorists went against the teachings of Islam because the Koran (allegedly) says that "killing an innocent person is like killing all humanity". I saw no reason not to accept this at face value and would most likely still be living in a fools paradise to this day had I not come across Ali Sina's writings.

Most non-Muslims, as was the case with me back then, will be blissfully unaware that when Muslims use words like "innocent" they know the kafirs will understand it one way whilst they have themselves have a different Islamic meaning. A disbeliever is by his very nature "guilty" . Likewise "good" and "bad" means what is good and bad for Islam and Muslims. I also learned early on that Muslims will seek to present the violent verses of the Qur'an as basically defensive using the sort of cross referencing I have done above, and found it very difficult to counter. And then there were those who when confronted by damning hadiths etc simply denied their authenticity. This was made more problematical by the existence of genuine Muslim hadith rejectors. Either way I learned to lay off extra-Quranic sourced unless Muslims themselves brought them into the discussion.

I have come to the conclusion.that the best way to break through the Islamic bodyguard of lies is to start by asking Muslims if they believe adulterers should be flogged 100 times. Flogged not stoned, because they will merely go all "Koran only" and respond that stoning is not in the book. Mughal, if you were following the thread, seemed averse to answering this simple question. He is very knowledgable and could probably see where it could lead. Had he answered in the affirmative my next question would have been "if some non-Muslims attempted to physically prevent the carrying out this punishment would that constitute hindering men from the path of Allah?" - which, as you will know, is ample cause for fighting even in the sacred months.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

sum
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: How to expose Islam?

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

I think that I saw the same programme that you did. The Cleric also said that muslim children between the ages of 6yrs and 12yrs go to the mosque for two hours per day six days in the week.

I am not averse to your suggestion re flogging but as there is no public flogging in the West it would be a little awkward to introduce it "out of the blue" without an opening.

I think that any atrocity in the UK or EU would be an opening to quote the Koran to explain the atrocity. I am quite aware of your reluctance to quote the Koran but it would put the muslims straight on the defensive and lead to more discussion on Koranic guidance. The Koran is meant to be for all time and so it would not be easy for the muslims to claim that the quotes that we give relate only to the time of the quote. There is no mention in the Koran that the guidance, in part, is only for the time of Muhammad.

The main problem that I see is whether the Government or Media would allow or go along with this suggestion.

sum

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