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Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC Judge

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:45 pm
by theabhi
Kerala high court judge Justice B Kamal Pasha stirred a hornet’s nest on Sunday by asking why Muslim women could not have four husbands while the men enjoyed the same privilege under the Muslim personal law.

Addressing a seminar organised by an NGO run by women lawyers in Kozhikode, Pasha said Muslim personal laws are heavily loaded against women. He blamed religious heads for establishing the hegemony of men and wanted them to introspect during religious discourses on sensitive issues.

Under the Muslim personal law, a man can marry four times. Although many Muslim countries have banned polygamy, it is still prevalent in India.

“Religious heads should do self-introspection whether they are eligible to pronounce one-sided verdicts. People should also think about the eligibility of persons who are pronouncing such verdicts,” he said, adding that women were deprived even of the rights enshrined in the Quran.

Pasha also said that it was unfair to oppose a uniform civil code. “Even the highest court is a bit reluctant to interfere in this. Women should come forward to end this injustice,” he said.

“Personal law is loaded with discrimination. Besides denying equality, it also denies women’s right to property and other issues,” he said. The judge added that the Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act, 2005, will be fruitful if the right of a woman to her husband’s property is properly defined.

This article originally appeared on Hindustan Times.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:34 am
by Nosuperstition
Pasha also said that it was unfair to oppose a uniform civil code. “Even the highest court is a bit reluctant to interfere in this. Women should come forward to end this injustice,” he said.

“Personal law is loaded with discrimination. Besides denying equality, it also denies women’s right to property and other issues,” he said.


Muslim leaders oppose what they see as the state's or Hindu's interference in their internal matter of religious law.They even went to the extent of saying that polygamy is more prevalent amongst Hindus even though the Hindu civil code bans polygamy.I have read elsewhere that even amongst Hindus,polygamy is most prevalent in tribals.

So even if laws are enacted for banning polygamy amongst muslims , change will not happen overnight.If Hindus who are mostly law abiding,law fearing and peaceful, themselves break the law for marrying more than once,muslims who are known to be courageous and brave can much more easily break the law to marry more than once.At best the enacting of law is just tokenism and symbolism.However muslim elders seem to against even such tokenism as that supposedly shows muslims as powerless before laws enacted by Hindus.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:52 am
by Nosuperstition
Sunda and Upasunda loved and cared for each other so much that they were always in each other’s company.


They asked for nothing short of immortality. With that in their kit they could pursue their aim of winning the entire earth, Patala (the World below) and heaven with none to oppose. Brahma asked them to choose something else because immortality was something he could not afford to offer.

They thought for an instant for an alternative that was almost the same. So they said that the only way any one of them would die must be by the other.


Finally, Brahma himself thought of a plan. He called Viswakarma, the specialist builder of heaven to create a damsel of such beauty that all beings would vie with each other and fall at her feet. That was how the celestial damsel, Tilottama, came to being. She was immediately given the task of enticing the two demons.

It is said that even Lord Siva, who spent all his time meditating, found her attraction irresistible. He wanted to look at Tilottama in whichever direction she went with the result that he developed three new faces, now one for each of the four directions. Indra was so interested that he developed a thousand eyes !

Tilottama wasted no time and went to meet Sunda and Upasunda. The demons spotted her, scantily dressed and plucking flowers in the most enchanting manner. The two were mesmerized by her so much that they forgot everything else. One immediately grabbed her left hand and the other , her right. She was being pulled in each direction and soon the Asuras started fighting against each other. The fight became so serious that they ended up being killed by one another.

Narada told the story to give the message that one woman in the company of many men could cause great trouble.


http://kunjunny.blogspot.in/2007/01/story-of-sunda-and-upasunda.html

Out of jealousy the stronger gender cannot bear the thought of sharing its better half with anyone else.The above story was told to Pandava brothers who married Draupadi polyandrously and were asked to sleep with her one at a time for an entire year as sharing a woman means a lot of trouble due to clash of egoes.Therefore when even the lenient Hindu texts caution against polyandry,you cannot expect ultra orthodox Abrahamic religions to be lenient with regards to polyandry.Afterall the very basis of Abrahamic morality is itself dealing out harsh punishments to the transgressors of morals based on taboos which in turn are based on human nature thus keeping them firmly in line with the prevailing norms.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:55 am
by theabhi
There is not the subject what Brahma did!

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:18 am
by Fernando
In the West, the decline in marriage makes the subject rather blurry. In most countries polygamy is not allowed but since many couples live together and have children without getting married, there's nothing to stop them doing it in twos or threes or fours, either way. I don't think it's common, though - but I have heard of people who go in for "polyamory" - a sort of communal sharing of multiple partners.
AFAIK such arrangements are allowed but have no force in law, which raises no problem with tax allowances for marriage, but could make child benefits awkward - especially as there is a move to limit them to a couple's first two or three children.

Although, on reflection, I think there has been confusion over what happens with Muslim polygamy in the UK. Only the first wife is legal, but IIRC recognising further marriages might save the government money by reducing benefits, otherwise given to the "single" women, if they become recognised as extra wives!

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:08 am
by Hombre
It all trace back to Muhammad himself, and his personal conduct which sets Islamic laws vis-a-vis women.
He was not satisfied with one wife to replace his deceased wife Khadija. He needed 9 of them +11 concubines.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:01 pm
by Nosuperstition
theabhi wrote:There is not the subject what Brahma did!


Why not 4 spouses for 1 muslim woman?that was the question asked.

But a King should never enter the abode of another person, for Abhira,[64] the King of the Kottas was killed by a washerman while in the house of another, and in the same way Jayasana the King of the Kashis was slain by the commandment of his cavalry.


http://www.publicbookshelf.com/romance/kama-sutra/love-persons-4

People in this forum frequently love to quote the pre-Islamic subcontinental sexual manual of Kamasutra in order to prove how liberal Hinduism is or was before Islamic invasions.The same Kamasutra mentions the above incidents where even kings were killed by commoners who were incensed at the violation of their sacred mutual marriage contract with their wives by a third party.When such extreme behaviour is the norm even amongst Hindus predating Islamic invasions,you cannot expect polyandry amongst muslims who are much more tabooised with regards to such liasons in terms of eternal punishments and psychological aversions.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:14 pm
by Nosuperstition
theabhi are you a Hindu?I ask because abhi in Sanskrit means being fearless and I have seen in the Telugu film Bahubali the chief officiating priest of war call upon the royal princes by their name and then say 'abhi' or be fearless.bheethi in Sanskritised Telugu also means fear and 'a' when adden as a prefix in Sanskrit means no-fear.It is an becomes and antonym for fear.Also in the Sanskrit verse in the Telugu film Jayam they sing the verse 'Abhi mantranam , utsaaha yantranam,ari veera ghora maranodyamostu nirantam,veera karmanam rudhira tarpanam,bhaya dhoorja dhurjalasphura chanda etc we find word abhi mantranam which means the chant of being fearless in war fought fiercely by the brave where blood is spilled as a result of discharge of their duties or actions etc.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:35 pm
by manfred
Theabhi, forgive nosuperstition for posting off topic again, he seems to be unable to stop doing that.

The question is a fair one... if a man can have four wives, why not a woman four husbands?

The answer why it is not allowed, is found in the teachings and practices of Islam.

First, Islam sees a woman as a possession, either owned by her father, or other male relative, or by her husband.

Because she "belongs" to her husband, she may never refuse him, and he may even beat her. Women are not seen as equal to men in Islam. The testimony of a woman in an Islamic court counts half that of man. Women inherit half the share of a man. The "blood money" for a woman is half that of a man. As a women is property, she cannot belong to more to one man.

So why did Islam allow a man to have 4 wives (and as many sex slaves as he wants)?

It is important for Islam to grow that people have many children. A man with one wife can at best get her pregnant once a year, roughly. That means a man with 4 wives can produce a new warrior for Allah every 3 months. That is the reason.

If a woman had 4 husbands she could only get pregnant once a year, the same as if she had on one husband.... she would effectively reduce the future population.

Also imagine the chaos:

A man has 4 wives. Each of them has three other husbands. Each of these also have 3 further wives.... It would be impossible to say who the father is of any particular child.

To a Muslim, this is very important: he inherits his father's name, and eventually also much of his property.

So that system would cause a lot of problems, specially for men.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:45 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:So why did Islam allow a man to have 4 wives (and as many sex slaves as he wants)?

It is important for Islam to grow that people have many children. A man with one wife can at best get her pregnant once a year, roughly. That means a man with 4 wives can produce a new warrior for Allah every 3 months. That is the reason.
Sorry Manfred, but that can't be right. Only the women can give birth to the new warriors and numerically it would make no difference whether she was assisted by a whole, single, husband or a quarter share of one: one woman, one child, per year regardless of the marital arrangments.

I think the answer has to be seen in the heirarchical structure of the old Arab tribes: the boss gets the women, for the remaining 3/4 of the men in the tribe - tough luck. However, the frustrated randy young men have to be keep in rein and Mo came up with the ideal solution: "never mind, brave young warriors, there's far better to come than my four all-too-human wives. Off you go killing infidels and you'll get virgins forever - and 72 of them, to boot".

So randy old Mo and his ageing cronies get the girls and the resulting frustrated jealousy keeps his army frantic to kill infidels. Job done.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:57 pm
by manfred
one woman, one child, per year regardless of the marital arrangments.


Yes, of course, but you need to look at it with the Arab mindset: Women and children are property. They are there for you.

If you, as a man, have 4 wives, you can sire 4 times as many children than with one woman, in the same time frame.

Sure one woman, one child per year, but suppose you "collect" some extra women in "military" attacks? Each woman will still only have one kid a year, but if there are more women than men, there can be more kids...

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:10 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:Sure one woman, one child per year, but suppose you "collect" some extra women in "military" attacks? Each woman will still only have one kid a year, but if there are more women than men, there can be more kids...
Yes indeed, adding to the herd will increase yield whereas sharing out the tribe's women unevenly would not.
Meanwhile, talking of numbers...
Last month, when the battle for Mosul began, Islamic State “caliph” Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi reportedly promised four extra Houris (supernatural, celestial women designed for sexual purposes)—atop the other 72 promised by prophet Muhammad—to all jihadis who die (are “martyred”) fighting the infidel forces, according to Arabic media accounts.
So collecting women isn't all about breeding after all! :musilmah: :musilmah: :musilmah: :musilmah:
http://canadafreepress.com/article/the-houris-islams-sexual-superwomen

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:28 pm
by theabhi
manfred wrote:
one woman, one child, per year regardless of the marital arrangments.


Yes, of course, but you need to look at it with the Arab mindset: Women and children are property. They are there for you.

If you, as a man, have 4 wives, you can sire 4 times as many children than with one woman, in the same time frame.

Sure one woman, one child per year, but suppose you "collect" some extra women in "military" attacks? Each woman will still only have one kid a year, but if there are more women than men, there can be more kids...


Indeed Quran clearly allows to beat lightly Moslem Women. I was taught "Yatra Naaryastu Poojyate Ramyante tatra Devata" or The place where women are respected, there live Good People.

I was totally shocked when I read first time in Quran to beat women.

Re: Why Not 4 Spouces for Muslim Women too, asks Kerala HC J

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:35 pm
by theabhi
Nosuperstition wrote:theabhi are you a Hindu?I ask because abhi in Sanskrit means being fearless and I have seen in the Telugu film Bahubali the chief officiating priest of war call upon the royal princes by their name and then say 'abhi' or be fearless.bheethi in Sanskritised Telugu also means fear and 'a' when adden as a prefix in Sanskrit means no-fear.It is an becomes and antonym for fear.Also in the Sanskrit verse in the Telugu film Jayam they sing the verse 'Abhi mantranam , utsaaha yantranam,ari veera ghora maranodyamostu nirantam,veera karmanam rudhira tarpanam,bhaya dhoorja dhurjalasphura chanda etc we find word abhi mantranam which means the chant of being fearless in war fought fiercely by the brave where blood is spilled as a result of discharge of their duties or actions etc.


Though I already said not to deviate from the topic.
I'm an Arya. The Follower of Vedic Dharma.
And the word "Abhay" means fearless. Actually it is derived by a Sutra of Ashtadhyayi, one of the greatest Sanskrit Grammer texts by Maharshi Panini.
ABHAYA = NA BHAYA iti ABHAYA. It's Naiyan Tatpurush Samas. Bhaya means fear and Abhaya means fearless.

And my name is ABHI and not ABHAYA.