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Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:32 pm
by Al-Fatihah
manfred wrote:You need to read what is provided for you. Clearly that is NOT the meaning, as all the tafsir also shows.

....refers to those who are at the age of menu station but have not done so during the time of divorce


The menu station. right... Allah had this in mind... everybody else in the whole world got it wrong only al-fatihah, the even more last prophet understands.

Image


Response: Clearly, you do not have a clue. Your own evidence says it means have not menstrusted. Therefore it refers to menstruating women who have not menstruated at the time or divorce.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:35 pm
by Al-Fatihah
piscohot wrote:
Al-Fatihah wrote: Try again.


Try again?
Go get your head examined.
What's there to try again?
Both sunni and shia school of jurisprudence agreed that sex with a child is permissible.

I will agree with you if you can show that your credentials in explaining the quran are better than those guys.


Response: Yet the Qur'an and Sunnah proves that sex is only allowed in marriage through consent when one reaches maturity and puberty. Debunked as usual. Try again.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:36 pm
by Al-Fatihah
sum wrote:Hello Al-Fatihah

Please tell me if you think it acceptable for a 53yr old man to have sexual intercourse with a 9yr old girl whether they are married or not.

sum


Response: It's acceptable to have sex at any age through consent in marriage when one reaches maturity and puberty.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:00 pm
by manfred
Clearly, you do not have a clue. Your own evidence says it means have not menstrusted. Therefore it refers to menstruating women who have not menstruated at the time or divorce.


This has by now been fully explained to you several times. If you cannot understand it, I cannot help you.

You are just being stubborn.

"desperate of menses" = those after menopause or those who for some other reason stopped to have a period.
"not menstruated (yet)" = a new category. I means the only group left who do not have a period, pre=menstrual girls.

You were given several tafsir and scholar opinions to show that, and really it is a no-brainer: why make a rule for the same group already covered just before?

It's acceptable to have sex at any age through consent in marriage when one reaches maturity and puberty.


As silence = consent you are saying Mohammed could have sex with a nine year old girl. As the Qur'an spells out a waiting period for pre-pubescent girls, sex is also allowed before sexual maturity, let alone emotional maturity. From the sources we in fact know he did just that, as also demonstrated over and over to you. Again, if you cannot see this I cannot help you. Almost all Muslims see it and know that.

You have had the evidence for all this several times, and you were also shown that this is the position in sharia, with detailed sources, so your one line responses are getting pointless. All you are doing is trying to get everybody to walk away from your thread or have it closed, because you do not attempt an actual discussion, so that you can then brag some kind of "victory".

This is how it works: If winning is important to you, be aware, you cannot win an argument by boring people into leaving. The people who decide why has "won" are the readers and contributors as a whole, not you.

Just curious, as you have tried this many times over, have you acturally EVER managed to convince anyone of this line of yours?

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:05 pm
by Fernando
Al-Fatihah wrote:Response: The evidence is in the OP. Your argument fails. Try again.
Harking back to your OP, as you so often do: you say two sentences are identical - then show that only about half the words are the same. Then you apply a meaning to them that isn't at all the only possible one.
Clearly showing that the sentence does not mean enter her because another word is introduced. If it was to mean he entered her, it would not be necessary to add an additional word. Proving from the Arabic that it means he entered into what’s upon him. Not entered her.
Without wishing to be too crude, I don't believe that Muslims adhere to the "missionary" position and an old man like Mo might well have welcomed a little light relief. I trust I need not be more explicit.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:41 pm
by Hombre
Al-Fatihah wrote:
manfred wrote:You need to read what is provided for you. Clearly that is NOT the meaning, as all the tafsir also shows.

....refers to those who are at the age of menu station but have not done so during the time of divorce


The menu station. right... Allah had this in mind... everybody else in the whole world got it wrong only al-fatihah, the even more last prophet understands.

Image


Response: Clearly, you do not have a clue. Your own evidence says it means have not menstrusted. Therefore it refers to menstruating women who have not menstruated at the time or divorce.
Women menstruation is not included in the Restaurant Menus. Maybe in Malaysian restaurants, not in US. How dumber can you get?.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:15 am
by iffo
Al-Fatihah wrote:
iffo wrote:Your own brothers don't agree with you :lotpot:
Where is the evidence :D , evidence is that she married and moved in with phedo at nine, that's enough to prove she had sex at 9. You are completely destroyed here.

Response: The evidence is in the OP. Your argument fails. Try again.


Sorry to say but OP just shows your stupidity and desperateness nothing else. Living together as husband and wife at age 9 means she had intercourse at age 9. Its been explained to you many times but you don't seem to get it. On this planet when wife moves to husband's house after marriage they have sex. I am sure you had sex right away after your wife moved to your place. So why Mo would not fuuck her? That's the proof that phedo fuucked her at 9. End of the story, your desperate attempt is useless and impress and convince no one. You can not even convince your muslim brothers :D . At least they are honest. So you lost , try some other topic.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:15 am
by sum
Hello Al-Fatihah

Your quote -
It's acceptable to have sex at any age through consent in marriage when one reaches maturity and puberty.

Please explain what you understand "maturity" and "puberty" to mean. Please also show where consent is needed.

sum

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:21 am
by frankie
For those Muslims who would disagree with their prophets example of marrying a child, here is evidence from premier Islamic clerics who put the record straight on this matter.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/pakis ... un-islamic


Marrying young girls was not all that unusual for its time, but because in Islam Muhammad is the supreme example of conduct (cf. Qur’an 33:21), he is considered exemplary in this unto today. And so in April 2011, the Bangladesh Mufti Fazlul Haque Amini declared that those trying to pass a law banning child marriage in that country were putting Muhammad in a bad light: “Banning child marriage will cause challenging the marriage of the holy prophet of Islam, [putting] the moral character of the prophet into controversy and challenge.” He added a threat: “Islam permits child marriage and it will not be tolerated if any ruler will ever try to touch this issue in the name of giving more rights to women.” The Mufti said that 200,000 jihadists were ready to sacrifice their lives for any law restricting child marriage.

Likewise the influential website Islamonline.com in December 2010 justified child marriage by invoking not only Muhammad’s example, but the Qur’an as well:


The Noble Qur’an has also mentioned the waiting period [i.e. for a divorced wife to remarry] for the wife who has not yet menstruated, saying: “And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women, if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated” [Qur’an 65:4]. Since this is not negated later, we can take from this verse that it is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a prepubescent girl. The Qur’an is not like the books of jurisprudence which mention what the implications of things are, even if they are prohibited. It is true that the prophet entered into a marriage contract with A’isha when she was six years old, however he did not have sex with her until she was nine years old, according to al-Bukhari.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:51 pm
by Al-Fatihah
manfred wrote:
Clearly, you do not have a clue. Your own evidence says it means have not menstrusted. Therefore it refers to menstruating women who have not menstruated at the time or divorce.


This has by now been fully explained to you several times. If you cannot understand it, I cannot help you.

You are just being stubborn.

"desperate of menses" = those after menopause or those who for some other reason stopped to have a period.
"not menstruated (yet)" = a new category. I means the only group left who do not have a period, pre=menstrual girls.

You were given several tafsir and scholar opinions to show that, and really it is a no-brainer: why make a rule for the same group already covered just before?

It's acceptable to have sex at any age through consent in marriage when one reaches maturity and puberty.


As silence = consent you are saying Mohammed could have sex with a nine year old girl. As the Qur'an spells out a waiting period for pre-pubescent girls, sex is also allowed before sexual maturity, let alone emotional maturity. From the sources we in fact know he did just that, as also demonstrated over and over to you. Again, if you cannot see this I cannot help you. Almost all Muslims see it and know that.

You have had the evidence for all this several times, and you were also shown that this is the position in sharia, with detailed sources, so your one line responses are getting pointless. All you are doing is trying to get everybody to walk away from your thread or have it closed, because you do not attempt an actual discussion, so that you can then brag some kind of "victory".

This is how it works: If winning is important to you, be aware, you cannot win an argument by boring people into leaving. The people who decide why has "won" are the readers and contributors as a whole, not you.

Just curious, as you have tried this many times over, have you acturally EVER managed to convince anyone of this line of yours?

Response: Again you prove my point. You again say it means "not menstruated yet". Therefore proving it refers to those who do menstruated but have not done so yet. Debunked again by your own flawed logic. Try again.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:57 pm
by Centaur
Menstruated but not menstruated lol cant accept that your prophet bonked children . Dog barks muslim lies

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:20 pm
by manfred
Again you prove my point.

You have a point?
You again say it means "not menstruated yet". Therefore proving it refers to those who do menstruated but have not done so yet.


The correct English is: It refers to those who will eventually menstruate but have not done so yet. That is what is says and that is what it means, that is what the authoritative tafsir says. That is what pretty much all Muslim say. That is what sharia says.

That means children. As a waiting period is linked to sex, it clearly says that sex is allowed with children, as it speaks of divorces and marriages of children. Mohammed had sex with at least one child beyond reasonable doubt, and we have other sources suggesting Aisha was not in fact the only child who he abused.

Get used to it. Nobody can change the past. You can pretend it was different, but that is only self-deception. I know it is unpleasant to face up to it, but it is better than living a lie.

Is it sinking in?

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:56 pm
by piscohot
Al-Fatihah wrote:Response: Yet the Qur'an and Sunnah proves that sex is only allowed in marriage through consent when one reaches maturity and puberty. Debunked as usual. Try again.


you are debunked by both sunni and shia scholars. Puberty is NOT a factor for sex in marriage.

Try again

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:17 pm
by Al-Fatihah
manfred wrote:
Again you prove my point.

You have a point?
You again say it means "not menstruated yet". Therefore proving it refers to those who do menstruated but have not done so yet.


The correct English is: It refers to those who will eventually menstruate but have not done so yet. That is what is says and that is what it means, that is what the authoritative tafsir says. That is what pretty much all Muslim say. That is what sharia says.

That means children. As a waiting period is linked to sex, it clearly says that sex is allowed with children, as it speaks of divorces and marriages of children. Mohammed had sex with at least one child beyond reasonable doubt, and we have other sources suggesting Aisha was not in fact the only child who he abused.

Get used to it. Nobody can change the past. You can pretend it was different, but that is only self-deception. I know it is unpleasant to face up to it, but it is better than living a lie.

Is it sinking in?


Response: Your won words say it means have not menstruated, thus proving yourself that it refers to those who menstruate but have not done so at the time of divorce.

You have a great habit of refuting yourself.
Is it not sinking in?

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:24 pm
by Al-Fatihah
Fernando wrote:Harking back to your OP, as you so often do: you say two sentences are identical - then show that only about half the words are the same. Then you apply a meaning to them that isn't at all the only possible one.

Without wishing to be too crude, I don't believe that Muslims adhere to the "missionary" position and an old man like Mo might well have welcomed a little light relief. I trust I need not be more explicit.


Response: What we can trust is that you have no logical proof, as shon above. So we can conclude that the sources refer to living together and not sex, as proven in the OP. Thanks.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:39 pm
by manfred
Your won words say it means have not menstruated, thus proving yourself that it refers to those who menstruate but have not done so at the time of divorce.


which are CHILDREN. A girl will menstruate eventually but because of her age has not done so yet when she is divorced. Anyone one else has already been covered in the first part of the verse. You had the verse, the tafsir, the schilars and all else, so really there is no point pretending you do not understand what it says.

do I really need to repeat it another 20 times? This is not even a question for dispute among Muslims.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:26 pm
by sum
Hello Al-Fatihah

Your quote -
It's acceptable to have sex at any age through consent in marriage when one reaches maturity and puberty.

Please explain what you understand "maturity" and "puberty" to mean. Please also show where consent is needed.

sum

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:04 pm
by Hombre
Let's hope and pray this guy is a troll, and not real Muslim.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:30 pm
by Al-Fatihah
manfred wrote:which are CHILDREN. A girl will menstruate eventually but because of her age has not done so yet when she is divorced. Anyone one else has already been covered in the first part of the verse. You had the verse, the tafsir, the schilars and all else, so really there is no point pretending you do not understand what it says.

do I really need to repeat it another 20 times? This is not even a question for dispute among Muslims.


Response: Even when you repeat yourself, you still admit that the verse says have not menstruated yet. Those are your own words. So your own evidence shows it refers to those who menstruate but have not done so at the time of divorce. Debunked as usual. Try again.

Re: Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:59 pm
by Al-Fatihah
sum wrote:Please explain what you understand "maturity" and "puberty" to mean. Please also show where consent is needed.

sum

Response: It means exactly what the dictionary says maturity and puberty means. The Qur'an also says not to inherit women against their will (4:19).