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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:12 pm
by sum
Hello joseph

I accept that you will accept Allah`s word regarding his permission for men to beat their wives. However, would you tell me if this permission to allow the beating of wives was a surprise to you?

sum

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:52 pm
by Allah1
Yes, this ruling surprised me for one at first, but when I read the interpretation and found it to point out clearly that it should only be a "light beating", then I realized the great wisdom which our Lord has ordained for husbands when their wives become disobedient not only to their husbands, but also to their Creator.

Allah1

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:04 pm
by expozIslam
Allah1 wrote:Yes, this ruling surprised me for one at first, but when I read the interpretation and found it to point out clearly that it should only be a "light beating", then I realized the great wisdom which our Lord has ordained for husbands when their wives become disobedient not only to their husbands, but also to their Creator.

Allah1

Quran does not say light beating. That is an addition done by translators and wife does not even have to disobey. If you just suspect that she is going to disobey, you can beat her. Shouldn't women have the same rights? if not , why not?

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:14 pm
by Allah1
Quran does not say light beating. That is an addition done by translators and wife does not even have to disobey. If you just suspect that she is going to disobey, you can beat her. Shouldn't women have the same rights? if not , why not?


Well, you have to understand that obedient women understand their role as muslim wife and are actually proud of given the title of "slave of Allah", as such, they listen and obey their Lord's ruling and gladly accept that their husbands have been made to be their "protectors and maintainers"...

Allah1

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:31 pm
by Ariel
Hola, hello, hallo allo allo!!!!!!!!!!!
For all people who never visit another thread then the one they post in…

Can you please cast your vote here?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3401

We would also be very grateful if proud and not so proud Muslims would cast a vote.
Thank you in advance.

Ariel.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:25 pm
by Sanitarium
No, men were apparently made superior, it's not that they're 'protectors and maintainers'

Dawud Book 11, Number 2135 wrote:
Narrated Qays ibn Sa'd:

I went to al-Hirah and saw them (the people) prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, so I said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) has most right to have prostration made before him. When I came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), I said: I went to al-Hirah and saw them prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, but you have most right, Apostle of Allah, to have (people) prostrating themselves before you. He said: Tell me , if you were to pass my grave, would you prostrate yourself before it? I said: No. He then said: Do not do so. If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah.




So the question is, what do men do to 'protect' women? As far as I can see, in Islam, it's the woman's responsibility to protect herself by staying inside whenever possible, making sure she goes outside with her Mahram, not putting herself in the position where she can be accused of 'sexual immorality', not doing anything to cause the husband to stop 'protecting her' and beat her.

WHAT does the husband 'protect' his wife from? Makes no sense!


Also 'maintaining' makes it sound even moreso like Muslim men consider women to be property (and we know they do)

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:32 pm
by booktalker
Women are obedient to their husbands because if they aren't they will get the sh!t beaten out of them

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:01 am
by expozIslam
Sanitarium wrote:Also 'maintaining' makes it sound even moreso like Muslim men consider women to be property (and we know they do)

it is far worse than that. Islam is the only religion that I know treats marriage as a contract. The woman is supposed to provide on-demand sexual services in addition to cooking food, doing dishes, washing clothes and other household chores in return for the pitty food and the life long imprisonment and mind you this is the only contract in which one party can annul the contract on his own terms in ways like
a) triple divorce
b) accuse wife of sexual immorality and since women's evidence is half of man's value, even if both take oath on their holy sh!t(Quran), man's word will be taken as truth and the women flogged and confined to house till her death(per shitty Quran).

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:46 am
by Sanitarium
expozIslam: Excellent post thank you! I agree.

I'd just like to add that it's even worse than that. The Mahr, which must be paid to the wife, is actually Payment for the exclusive use of the woman'a vagina. This is why, if she seeks a Khul (divorce) and it is granted, she must give back all or part of the Mahr, because he 'didn't get what he paid for.'. If he divorces her, she doesn't have to pay it back, because he's decided he's 'finished with it.' Also this is why a Mahr must still be paid even for temporary marriages - because he's still renting her vagina for his sole use until the end of the (short) marriage.

Also, Muhammad knew Polygyny hurts women but it was OK to do it to OTHER women, but not to Fatimah (his daughter).

Lastly, if you ask a woman to marry you and she rejects you, you can get to friends to lie that she said yes and you are allowed to marry and consummate the marriage.

How sick is that?!

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:24 am
by Icur2wyz4m3
joseph wrote:Who am I to argue with the God.

He knows what is best.

If God recommends something, then it has to be good for human beings.


I wish you could experience the joys of being a devout muslimah married to a pious mutaqee muslim man!
The joy! The joy! The absolutely crappy joy...

So Allah says it's ok for the zawji (husband) to hit his zawjat (wife), so therefore according to your logic it is good.
But when us human women complain that being beaten is a horrible experience - not good for us at all, what would you call that???
Is it good when women want to kill themselves or their husbands because of being beaten day in and day out???
Is it good when women have nervous breakdowns or want to leave Islam because of the treatment by their husbands???
Is it good when a woman won't eat because of how much stress she undergoes because she is so worried all the time about the husband being angry with her when he gets home???
Is it good for the children to see violence, physical, verbal, or emotional??? Or even sexual???
How is it good???
What about anger management??? Men who hit their wives become worse with time, not better - and it gets harder for them to control their anger and not hit harder or beat into the woman even more... How many women are murdered by their husbands, because of lack of control of their anger - they may not even mean to kill their wives but because they are so not used to controlling their impulses they lash out to an extreme.
Is the murder of women by their own husbands who were so used to being able to punish their disobedient and wives they feared rebellion from, that they were sanctioned to carry it way too far - is this a good thing???

So Allah knows all, Al-'Aleem. He hates us women and we should be grateful to HIM for giving us such good husbands who are allowed to do as they want with us. Ya Rabbil-'Alameen, Alhamdullilah, :worthy: Thank you for bestowing upon me such a position - no wonder so many women enter jahannam - we all apostate because we can't stand the treatment no more.

This is one of the majour reasons I left Islam. Try being a woman Joseph, or at least try to empathise how it must feel.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:25 pm
by joseph
sum wrote:
Hello joseph

I accept that you will accept Allah`s word regarding his permission for men to beat their wives.

However, would you tell me if this permission to allow the beating of wives was a surprise to you?

sum


Yes.

But after thinking about it, I can see the point why God gave permission to husbands to beat their wives.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:58 pm
by expozIslam
joseph wrote:
sum wrote:
Hello joseph

I accept that you will accept Allah`s word regarding his permission for men to beat their wives.

However, would you tell me if this permission to allow the beating of wives was a surprise to you?

sum


Yes.

But after thinking about it, I can see the point why God gave permission to husbands to beat their wives.

Care to tell us what that thinking is?

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:09 pm
by diotima64
expozIslam wrote:
joseph wrote:
sum wrote:
Hello joseph

I accept that you will accept Allah`s word regarding his permission for men to beat their wives.

However, would you tell me if this permission to allow the beating of wives was a surprise to you?

sum


Yes.

But after thinking about it, I can see the point why God gave permission to husbands to beat their wives.

Care to tell us what that thinking is?


"Hey - am a man, Allah´s on MY side! Allahu akbar!" :roll:

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:09 am
by joseph
-

Like most other people, I also used to hate Atheists, Christian and other men who hit women.

But after I became a Muslim I could see why they had to do it.

If you think about it, in certain situations some bad girls need a slap, dont they?

Many boys and men in America strike their girfriends. This is a fact.

Not all of them are justified in doing that, but some are.

You cannot deny that.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:14 am
by skynightblaze
joseph wrote:-

Like most other people, I also used to hate Atheists, Christian and other men who hit women.

But after I became a Muslim I could see why they had to do it.

If you think about it, in certain situations some bad girls need a slap, dont they?

Many boys and men in America strike their girfriends. This is a fact.

Not all of them are justified in doing that, but some are.

You cant deny that.


If you still believe that quran is the word of GOD after reading this verse then you have lost your conscience . Can violence help in maintaining a relationship?

Btw many men also need slaps but quran doesnt give permission to women to do that.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:15 pm
by expozIslam
joseph wrote:-

Like most other people, I also used to hate Atheists, Christian and other men who hit women.

But after I became a Muslim I could see why they had to do it.

You were always a muslims. We know islam enough to judge between converts to islam and born in islamic family. So spare us the crap that you converted to islam.
joseph wrote:-
If you think about it, in certain situations some bad girls need a slap, dont they?

By those standards, some bad men also need a slap. Don't they? and why did your Allah not give the same power to women as well? and I suppose your islamic thinking tells you that muslim men can do no wrong.
joseph wrote:-
Many boys and men in America strike their girfriends. This is a fact.

Not all of them are justified in doing that, but some are.

You cannot deny that.

There is never a justification for violent attack on a person. You justifying it is a sympton of islamic upbringing. If you have issues with your partner, just leave them and case closes there. You are a male chauvinist just like your mr. 20% profit.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:56 pm
by sum
It is interesting that both joseph and Allah1 were "surprised" that Allah gave muslims permission for them to beat their wives. This certainly implies that beating of wives was instinctively thought by them to be an improper act. It was only when their instinctive views of right and wrong were abrogated by the Koranic ruling that they said that they agreed with the beating. At least these two instinctively thought that wife beating was wrong and so differed from Allah` ruling. Interesting.

sum

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:57 am
by Sten
joseph wrote:-

Like most other people, I also used to hate Atheists, Christian and other men who hit women.

But after I became a Muslim I could see why they had to do it.

If you think about it, in certain situations some bad girls need a slap, dont they?

Many boys and men in America strike their girfriends. This is a fact.

Not all of them are justified in doing that, but some are.

You cannot deny that.


No. Hitting your spouse or girlfriend is NEVER justified, and anyone who does it is a coward and a bully. People like you make me sick, Joseph.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:36 pm
by joseph
I have couple of cops who are my good friends. Even they beat up their wives when these women cross certain lines.

I used to dislike men, especially cops, who strike women. But later I came to see that its not too bad a thing as it is made out to be. There are many police officers who have no problem with men slapping a woman on the face in some circumstances.

Many cops turn a blind eye if they think the woman was asking for it.

Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:02 pm
by KhaliL
joseph wrote:I have couple of cops who are my good friends. Even they beat up their wives when these women cross certain lines.

I used to dislike men, especially cops, who strike women. But later I came to see that its not too bad a thing as it is made out to be. There are many police officers who have no problem with men slapping a woman on the face in some circumstances.

Many cops turn a blind eye if they think the woman was asking for it.



You are disgustingly sick...a very good candidate for being a true Muslim. Go on you crank..good luck;