"kind" treatment of spouses

The rights of, or lack thereof, and problems faced by women in Islam
sword_of_truth
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"kind" treatment of spouses

Post by sword_of_truth »

Quran 4.34 famously instructs the husband to beat his wife as a third step in getting her to obey him if she is involved in nushoos or ill-conduct.

What qualifies as nushoos? Depends on who you ask.

http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/49945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This animal says for refusing to cover her hands.
"...if you want my personal preference say I found out that my wife was cheating with me flogging would be too good a punishment."

--fudgy

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ixolite
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by ixolite »

Quran 4.34 famously instructs the husband to beat his wife as a third step in getting her to obey him if she is involved in nushoos or ill-conduct.
Nope and nope.

There is nothing which says you have to follow steps there and it does say if the husband FEARS she disobeys he can beat her.

sword_of_truth
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by sword_of_truth »

Yes, it says, if you fear.

But it is generally interpreted as being 3 steps, and more specifically, according to the fatwa there. The 3 steps is pretty universal in practice, I think, although, I'm not sure the Quran actually says it. My arabic isn't good enough to tell--although, it seems like it just says "and" to me, as is the case with many translations. Muslims claim that it should be interpreted as steps, occurring in sequence, according to the usual classical arabic interpretation.
"...if you want my personal preference say I found out that my wife was cheating with me flogging would be too good a punishment."

--fudgy

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gala
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by gala »

I am confused. This dude says women are required to cover their faces and hands in front of non-mahram males...I thought old perv Mo said hands and faces were the only things that could show...Please tell me how pathetic a man has to be before the sight of a woman's hand is going to set him off.
Kali Ma, get it?!!!

sword_of_truth
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by sword_of_truth »

I am confused. This dude says women are required to cover their faces and hands in front of non-mahram males...I thought old perv Mo said hands and faces were the only things that could show...Please tell me how pathetic a man has to be before the sight of a woman's hand is going to set him off.
Could and should are not the same thing.

A man has to be fairly pathetic to be set off by the sight of a woman's hand, but if they are all covered up all the time, seeing a hand is their equivalent of a miniskirt.
"...if you want my personal preference say I found out that my wife was cheating with me flogging would be too good a punishment."

--fudgy

dianagrace
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by dianagrace »

sword_of_truth wrote:
I am confused. This dude says women are required to cover their faces and hands in front of non-mahram males...I thought old perv Mo said hands and faces were the only things that could show...Please tell me how pathetic a man has to be before the sight of a woman's hand is going to set him off.
Could and should are not the same thing.

A man has to be fairly pathetic to be set off by the sight of a woman's hand, but if they are all covered up all the time, seeing a hand is their equivalent of a miniskirt.
How would any man feel about being covered from head to toe, seriously? Islam is such a silly religion, and the men blame the women for everything!
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, Jesus Christ....

katlike
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by katlike »

Has anyone noticed this:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]
“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)”

[al-Nisa 4:34]
It does not say wives or husbands, no where does it say spouse. It divides us into men and into women only. Men protect and maintain women only. It does not bring up a mother supporting her male child. Simply men excelling over and supporting women. Guess allah forgot about a very distinct group of people...why?

I have a female friend who is the sole supporter of her dad who suffers from a disease. Another distinct group allah forgot about. What happens when the men are incapable of being the protector and maintainer of the women? What happens then?
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal

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Aksel Ankersen
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by Aksel Ankersen »

sword_of_truth wrote:Quran 4.34 famously instructs the husband to beat his wife as a third step in getting her to obey him if she is involved in nushoos or ill-conduct.

What qualifies as nushoos? Depends on who you ask.
This is another example where the Koran is specific about the punishment, but vague about the offense.

Nashaza literally means to rise up, the translators who said "rebellious behaviour" were correct. As the husband was previously defined as being in charge (qawwam) it means rebellion against the husband's orders (provided he's a good Muslim) is punishable with beating.
بدرود , بدرود , بدرود

Saimum
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by Saimum »

so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..

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skynightblaze
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by skynightblaze »

Saimum wrote:so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..
Then why not say wife can beat if husband goes crazy? SO going by your logic wife should keep watching if husband goes crazy? huh? Btw is beating a solution? Can any relationship sustain long if physical violence is permitted?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Saimum
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by Saimum »

skynightblaze wrote:
Saimum wrote:so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..
Then why not say wife can beat if husband goes crazy? SO going by your logic wife should keep watching if husband goes crazy? huh? Btw is beating a solution? Can any relationship sustain long if physical violence is permitted?
there is no permanent relationship. every relationship is bound to break someday. why do the western people goes through so much relationship. is it not more bad than beating?

FinallyFree
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by FinallyFree »

Saimum wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:
Saimum wrote:so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..
Then why not say wife can beat if husband goes crazy? SO going by your logic wife should keep watching if husband goes crazy? huh? Btw is beating a solution? Can any relationship sustain long if physical violence is permitted?
there is no permanent relationship. every relationship is bound to break someday. why do the western people goes through so much relationship. is it not more bad than beating?
Lets say Muslims have half as many divorces as "Western people". That's probably because in Islam only husbands can get divorces. If a wife wants a divorce she needs to visit a male scholar who will most likely be on the side of the man.

I think most women would rather be released from an abusive marriage then stay with a partner who beats them in the name of: "sanctity of marriage".

5 posts you have here and already your agendy is clear:

1) Pro-anything Islam
2) Anti-Western

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skynightblaze
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by skynightblaze »

Saimum wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:
Saimum wrote:so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..
Then why not say wife can beat if husband goes crazy? SO going by your logic wife should keep watching if husband goes crazy? huh? Btw is beating a solution? Can any relationship sustain long if physical violence is permitted?
there is no permanent relationship. every relationship is bound to break someday. why do the western people goes through so much relationship. is it not more bad than beating?
What has westerners got to do with islam here? Lets assume and say that they are bad and they break relationships often . Does that give Islam the right to do the same? If something is bad then its bad and it doesnt become good just because somebody else also does it .Btw westerners dont end up breaking relationships because of their religion. There is a difference between 2.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Aksel Ankersen
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by Aksel Ankersen »

Saimum wrote:so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..
What an idiotic comment. Only someone who has been brought up to think of women as a kind of domestic animal who need to be under constant male supervision would say this.
بدرود , بدرود , بدرود

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Chewchy
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by Chewchy »

Saimum wrote:so you guys want women to go crazy and husband should only watch. this is why Europe has so much nudist beach..
It's an epiphany! My goodnes, the whole psychiatric profession could be wiped out entirely if only men would beat their women as "treatment". Brilliant!

How about seeking some constructive help for a woman (or anyone for that matter) who is going "crazy". There is treatment, counseling, medication, etc. What I really think is that the ills of Islam cannot be corrected by any known psychiatric treatment (short of labotomy) and the only thing these brutes can come up with is violence. Cower them into submission. Yes, that really fosters a truly satisfying, loving and mutually respectful life-long relationship.

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who actually think like this and really, what the hell do nudist beaches in Europe have anything to do with the topic at hand?

Icur2wyz4m3
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by Icur2wyz4m3 »

Chewchy wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who actually think like this and really, what the hell do nudist beaches in Europe have anything to do with the topic at hand?
He thinks nudist beaches are the product of crazy wives!!! :roflmao: :roflmao:

I think I'm going to go down to the beach now - see you in six months time! :cool:

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expozIslam
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by expozIslam »

Saimum wrote: there is no permanent relationship. every relationship is bound to break someday. why do the western people goes through so much relationship. is it not more bad than beating?
hey saimum,
Do you know what is the divorce rate in your masters' country? Go and find out. you might be surprised. and by the way, Islam is the only religion/cult where marriage is nothing but a business contract or call it muslim men buying a prostitute to do some household chores while providing sexual services. There is no love required, no caring required, no understanding required but only submission of women to men and that is why in islamic shitholes
a) you find men marrying girls who are their daughter's or grand-daughter's age
b) disproportionately higher divorce rate
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

joseph
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by joseph »

I cant interpret that verse to hide the fact that husband is allowed to hit his mrs.

What is clear is clear. There is no point trying to run away from that verse in the Koran.

Therefore, I have to admit God does allow a husband to beat his wife.
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expozIslam
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by expozIslam »

joseph wrote:I cant interpret that verse to hide the fact that husband is allowed to hit his mrs.

What is clear is clear. There is no point trying to run away from that verse in the Koran.

Therefore, I have to admit God does allow a husband to beat his wife.
and do you find that alright? Should men be allowed to beat their wives?
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

joseph
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Re: "kind" treatment of spouses

Post by joseph »

Who am I to argue with the God.

He knows what is best.

If God recommends something, then it has to be good for human beings.
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