JOURNEY TO ISLAM

The rights of, or lack thereof, and problems faced by women in Islam
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:This is the story of Moses with Khidr which is not written in the Bible.
But do you think there are any lessons to be drawn from this story of a man who killed a male child out of fear that the child would lead his parents away from Islam?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:02 am
SAM wrote:This is the story of Moses with Khidr which is not written in the Bible.
But do you think there are any lessons to be drawn from this story of a man who killed a male child out of fear that the child would lead his parents away from Islam?
Who told you that the religion of a boy's parents is Islam?
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:Who told you that the religion of a boy's parents is Islam?
Allah says so. In Chapter 18, verse 80 he describes the boy's parents as "believers". What, are they believers in the Hindu pantheon or Holy Trinity?

So, to ask you again, what lesson would you say the Wandering Quinn should take from this story in her favorite surah of a man killing a child because the man fears that the boy might mislead his parents from their state of iman?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
frankie
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by frankie »

SAM
But do you think there are any lessons to be drawn from this story of a man who killed a male child out of fear that the child would lead his parents away from Islam?
Who told you that the religion of a boy's parents is Islam?
Allah according to QS 18.80
Quran 18.80
And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared that he would overburden them by transgression and disbelief.

Why should this boy or anyone be killed if as Allah tells Muslims:

Quran 2.256
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Ibn Kathir 2.256
"Allah said,

(There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam."

Seems the fear of disbelief is too much for Allah to bear, and would rather have people murdered to prevent them from becoming "unbelievers" in him.

What sort of god instructs his slaves to murder on his behalf?

Jesus (alleged prophet of Islam) gives the answer:

John 8:44
44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 am
Allah says so. In Chapter 18, verse 80 he describes the boy's parents as "believers". What, are they believers in the Hindu pantheon or Holy Trinity?
So you’re guessing the boy’s parents as “believers” their religion is Islam... :lol: Don't make guesses if you don't know... idiots :yuk:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:So you’re guessing the boy’s parents as “believers” their religion is Islam... :lol: Don't make guesses if you don't know... idiots :yuk:
Oh here we go! This little ploy was entirely expected. OK SAM, what is the religion other than Islam that the "believer" parents of the killed boy could possibly have been following?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:38 pm
Oh here we go! This little ploy was entirely expected. OK SAM, what is the religion other than Islam that the "believer" parents of the killed boy could possibly have been following?
Don't you see youself as clearly ignorant, moron, idiot, stupid, dumbass person who does not have adequate knowledge of Islam.

In Quran, "But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but conjecture; and conjecture avails nothing against Truth."
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:Don't you see youself as clearly ignorant, moron, idiot, stupid, dumbass person who does not have adequate knowledge of Islam.
I guess that's how Muslims understand Allah's command to "argue with them in ways that are best"
In Quran, "But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but conjecture; and conjecture avails nothing against Truth."
Firstly, surah reference please SAM.

Secondly Quran 3.7 states:


He is the One who has revealed to you the Book (the Qur’ān). Out of it there are verses that are MuHkamāt (of established meaning), which are the principal verses of the Book, and some others are Mutashābihāt (whose definite meanings are unknown). Now those who have perversity in their hearts go after such part of it as is mutashābih, seeking (to create) discord, and searching for its interpretation (that meets their desires), while no one knows its interpretation except Allah


Is verse 18.80 Muhkamāt or is it a verse whose definite meanings are unknown and the interpretation of which only Allah knows?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:11 am
I guess that's how Muslims understand Allah's command to "argue with them in ways that are best"
What does the Bible say about arguing with a fool..like you :*)

Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:What does the Bible say about arguing with a fool..like you :*)
What? Are you following the Bible rather than the Quran now SAM?

I didn't express an opinion. I asked you whether or not 18.80 was one of those Qur'an verses that only Allah knows the meaning of. If it is then my previous question regarding that passage becomes irrelevant. Would you be so kind as to clarify the matter for me please?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:57 pm
SAM wrote:What does the Bible say about arguing with a fool..like you :*)
What? Are you following the Bible rather than the Quran now SAM?
A reminder to you, what Jesus said about fools like you.
I didn't express an opinion. I asked you whether or not 18.80 was one of those Qur'an verses that only Allah knows the meaning of.
Then ask Allah to know the hidden meaning...Allah guides whomever He wills.
"We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.
If it is then my previous question regarding that passage becomes irrelevant. Would you be so kind as to clarify the matter for me please?
You believe that the religion of the boy's parents is Islam, so you have to believe that Musa wanted to learn Islam from Khidr. :*)
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

Ramadan 2021 will begin on Tuesday, April 13, 2021.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:A reminder to you, what Jesus said about fools like you
What did Jesus say SAM? Btw if I am such a fool then aren't you simply supposed to say "Peace" to me?
Then ask Allah to know the hidden meaning...
Are you, implying then that 18.80 is indeed one of those Qur'an verses that only Allah knows the meaning of? A Yes or No will suffice

You believe that the religion of the boy's parents is Islam, so you have to believe that Musa wanted to learn Islam from Khidr. :*)
Why does it logically follow from my (correct) assertion that the boy's parents (being believers)were Muslims that Musa wanted to learn Islam from the Khidr?

Having said that, Qur'an 18.66 has Moses ask him: 'May I follow you, provided that you teach me some of the right guidance you have been taught?”

So in killing the boy the man was teaching Moses "right guidance" IE Islam. Correct?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

Hatun Tash discusses the Flighty Quinn and her futile quest to clear up "misconceptions" about Islam:
Looks like the vid has become unavailable. I wonder why?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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SAM
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:41 am

Why does it logically follow from my (correct) assertion that the boy's parents (being believers)were Muslims that Musa wanted to learn Islam from the Khidr?

Having said that, Qur'an 18.66 has Moses ask him: 'May I follow you, provided that you teach me some of the right guidance you have been taught?”

So in killing the boy the man was teaching Moses "right guidance" IE Islam. Correct?
You're still guessing.. :yuk:

Proverbs 18:2..A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

In Quran says..'And they have thereof no knowledge. They follow not except assumption, and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all.'
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:You're still guessing.. :yuk:
SAM, are you seriously contesting that following "Right Guidance" is one and the same thing as following Islam?
'And they have thereof no knowledge. They follow not except assumption, and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all.'
Nice try with the out of context excerpt from 53.27-28 SAM.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
antineoETC
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Re: JOURNEY TO ISLAM

Post by antineoETC »

The Hatun Tash vid about SAM's poster girl is available again. It seems like TQ is already quite adept at Muslim victimhood and other ploys to suppress challenges to her rose-tinted picture of Islam.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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