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Land dacoity

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:53 pm
by Nosuperstition
During the reign of Ghiyasuddin Balban,hundreds of thousands of Hindus whose wealth and abodes had been plundered and ravaged and families decimated, had taken refuge in jungles and engaged in night-time robbery.


https://books.google.co.in/books?id=uHNddAz5cfAC&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=who+are+the+Muwattis?&source=bl&ots=g6IDrGBR1r&sig=r7wJO9-o59w-ti537z3oEtnI3Nk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_DXnVKbLI5SZuQTO7IDYCA&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Muwmuwattiswho%20are%20the%20Muwattis%3F&f=false

Now just as one cannot find fault with the Muwattis for robbery/stealing due to colonial attitudes of the ruling Muslim elite,one cannot also always find fault with stealing.Those whose land/means of subsistence is stolen will always resort to extreme measures.Perhaps that is why more or less a total genocide was made in North America by the colonialists.Problem solved once and for all.

Now in the supposedly later day extrapolated part of Uttarakanda in the Ramayana(supposedly extrapolated since style of writing with regards to grammer and syntax and strokes is different as compared with Valmiki Ramayana),Lord/God Ram himself does Asvamedha yaaga in circumstances of famine.Asvamedha yaga entails extortionism from defeated kings along with acknowledgement of suzerainty of the victor perhaps leaving the loser with his land.

Now the Ikshvaku and Satavahana rulers who established Indic culture across South India also did the Asvamedha and Vajapeya religious rituals. Whether these rituals can also be conducted in normal circumstances for the case of conquest and expansionism ,I do not know.However one ritual mentioned in the Mahabharatha which is similar to Asvamedha but conducted under normal circumstances is the Raaja suya.Perhaps extortion of others by powerful kings was considered the norm.

marduk wrote:Why do you think mankind has been at war since their numbers got high enough to form cities?


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9759&p=152476&hilit=machetes#p152476

manfred wrote:hey my cities are getting a bit crowded, let's start a war.
.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17820&p=235045&hilit=cities#p235045

So the cities expanding their territories could have happened in the subcontinent with religious blessings in the guise of the above religious rituals.

So once extortion money is payed,the vassals were perhaps granted immunity from further encroachments. Perhaps that is the reason why one finds this amazing diversity of more than 2000-5000 castes and hundreds of dialects in India preserved even today.However pilgrim of old forum said while he admires the diversity of the subcontinent,too much diversity can be trouble.When I myself observe the caste and parochial tendencies in India,I am forced not to differ with him.Perhaps that is also the reason why pilgrim said that in the Catholic countries of North and South America,after the initial upheavel everything subsided due to the imposed uniformity.Diversity of language based nations also resulted in two world wars in this world.According to one post that I have read it is the striving for uniformity in continental Europe that ultimately resulted in the holocaust of the Jews.

If the loser in the subcontinent is not allowed to have his land,then that land could have been the one which was turned into grants for the Brahmins by both the Ikshvaku and Satavahana dynasties of South India.If so then I do not understand merit in Hindu theologians accusing Shirdi Sai Baba of dacoity/theft in line with what previous muslim rulers did with Hindu land except by their understanding of the logical fallacy of tu quo que.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:36 pm
by Nosuperstition
When rainbow and/or wootah of Australia was pissed off in one of the debates with Hindu forummers of this forum/old forum,in a jibe she said that right now I am studying your as of today popular religious epics of Ramayana and Mahabharatha. Perhaps she too wants to resort to tu quo que using so called unpalatable or unsavoury topics and quotes of those two popular texts.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:29 pm
by Nosuperstition
Now I have read about one commander Hanumantappa Naidu being given huge estates of land as grants by the ruler of Hindu principality of Gadwala named Somanaadri for the great valor he displayed in a battle with the Nizam of Hyderabad thereby losing his right hand.If that land was previously not in anyone's hands,it is not dacoity,else it is indeed dacoity.So even when their scriptures do not endorse such dacoity,Hindus are perhaps known to resort to it.So land dacoity would no doubt happen if people of other religions also show valor in battles thereby earning the right to get jageers.''Tere baap kaa jageer hai kya' is a famous phrase in Hindi meaning is it your father's land grant or what?

Though the above mentioned Naidu has a tag as Naidu ,he actually was from the Boya aboriginal community of South India,the same as that of mine.In Hinduism,Telugu people who are leaders/or of high class adopt the name Naidu which possibly is a corrupted form of Nayakudu or the leader.In the Rajasthani tribal community of Banjaaraas/Lambaadis/Sugaalis also it is common to find the tag Naik.Similarly I have also come across a Reddy name with its last name being Boyareddigaari.Reddy of Kakatiya period simply meant one who is a land officer.Aboriginal people who were thus bestowed with luck then intermarried with other high class people of the same or of a different type.This is how castes are formed based on status and occupations which are only natural after the introduction of agriculture amongst them by the Aryan Brahmins.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:07 pm
by Nosuperstition
In the Telugu speaking Southern states of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana,the Boya community is not categorised under aboriginal castes right now even though they were once categorised as such.However the aborigines of North Indian state of Rajasthan namely Lambadis/Sugalis/Banjaras continue to benefit immensely by being classified as aborigines of the South though they are not actually aborigines of the South.Those of the Boya community who got elevated to a different caste by the Brahmins take pride in their new identity and show no concern for their roots and address the legitimate demands of their root population.In this aspect Hinduism is much like Islam where one is made to forget about their roots and instead take pride in their new found status.

If these Naidus and Reddys had any real concerns for the demands of their root population,they should make the Boyas also an S.T community along the sidelines of the Banjaras.As far as I can see,that however that is bound not to happen.

Now we can even see people who make fun of pre-Hindu era as that being without proper clothes.If that be the case Muslims can also make fun of pre-Muslim eras in which people did not dress up as much as they did and Christians also make fun of both for being intellectually dumb in not advancing science significantly.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:11 pm
by Nosuperstition
Anthropology is quite clear that human civilisations have slowly developed from tribes and have not been created of sudden by some divine being.Perhaps once you become rich ,marry Brahmin girls etc., you will naturally forget your roots.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:22 pm
by Nosuperstition
Now that extortion,distress sales etc have been legitimised for people of Telangana by its creation by virtue of them being supposedly more local than others,same must be done even in case of my caste as it is more local to South India by atleast bestowing reservations of the same category as others in A.P.Merely naming some areas as Bhoiguda etc simply won't do/simply won't suffice.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:03 am
by Nosuperstition
Eruka,Chenchu,Koya,Savara,Irula,Badaga,Toda,Kota and Kurumba are some other tribes native to South India.I do not know for sure if any of these are also given the same benefits of reservation that are available to Banjaras in Telangana and A.P.Banjaras are aborigines of Rajasthan,not A.P.Still I am not against them.All I want is that these South Indian tribal aborigines must also be given the same reservation enjoyed by Banjaras.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:23 pm
by Nosuperstition
Now according to the story of sage Valmiki that I have read,he was a dacoit before he had a change of heart.There is an interesting story as to what brought about a change of heart in him.He was once going by business as usual of robbing people.Then he encountered sage Narada.Narada asked him as to why he is robbing people.The tribal dacoit who possibly had no other means of sustenance after his lands possibly were taken away by more powerful rulers replied that he has a family to feed.Then Narada asked him to go and ask his wife and children if they also part-take in his punishment for sins committed during dacoity.Valmiki went to his family members and asked them that question.They replied that as the head of the family it is his duty to feed them and for that reason they are in no way concerned with how he earns money and then said that they are not willing to part-take in the punishment for his sins in the hereafter.He felt despondent and stopped dacoity,left his family ,did penance and became a seer.So goes the story.Well if one really follows the story they must abstain from dacoity,but then that is not the case even in case of Hindus themselves.

Re: Land dacoity

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:05 pm
by Nosuperstition
One should note that Valmiki who left dacoity authored the Ramayana in which Lord/God Ram returns back the kingdom of Lanka back to its original inhabitants albeit with a change pf guard in the form of Vibhishana in place of Ravana who gets killed in war.However the Uttaara Kaanda part which is said not have been authored by Valmiki has accepted the concept of extortion which can also be seen as a form of dacoity or robbery.Only proves once again that Uttara Kaanda was not authored by Valmiki but was extrapolated by later rulers to suit their expansionist/colonial/Imperialist designs.