Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

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Donnerschlag
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Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Donnerschlag »

Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed classes

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/M ... story.html

WINNIPEG — A dozen Muslim families who recently arrived in Canada have told Winnipeg's Louis Riel School Division that they want their children excused from compulsory elementary school music and coed physical education programs for religious and cultural reasons.

"This is one of our realities in Manitoba now, as a result of immigration," said superintendent Terry Borys. "We were faced with some families who were really adamant about this. Music was not part of the cultural reality."

Borys said the school division has alerted Education Minister Nancy Allan about the situation since music and phys-ed are compulsory in the province's elementary schools.

There have been no issues so far with children of middle-school or high-school age, he said.

The families accept physical education, as long as the boys and girls have separate classes, but do not want their children exposed to singing or the playing musical instruments, Borys said. The division has suggested they could instead do a writing project to satisfy the music requirements of the arts curriculum.

However, a local Muslim leader says there is no reason for young kids to be held out of music or phys-ed classes based on religious and cultural grounds.

"Who is advising them? My first concern would be who are these new immigrants talking to?" said Shahina Siddiqui, executive director of the Islamic Social Services. "This is the first time I am hearing this; I'm not very happy about it."

Siddiqui said there is no problem with elementary-school children taking coed phys-ed, at least "not with little kids under the age of puberty."

She said when some middle-school and high-school students have asked not to mix genders, they have been accommodated by schools.

Siddiqui acknowledged that music can be an issue — but only for a few people.

"Music is controversial in our community; this is a North American phenomenon," she said. "There is a minority view that music is forbidden. (That view) is not accepted by the majority."

Borys said that there had been one or two requests for kids to be excused previously, but this year a dozen families came forward at six schools.

Borys said that school division contacted a member of the Islamic community whom the parents suggested, consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission and looked at what other jurisdictions are doing about accommodation, particularly Ontario.

The division is trying to figure out what issues might arise when the children enter junior high or high school, he said.

Music is optional beyond Grade 6, but phys-ed is coed right through Grade 12.
A dozen Muslim families who recently arrived in Canada have told Winnipeg's Louis Riel School Division that they want their children excused from compulsory elementary school music and coed physical education programs for religious and cultural reasons.
What's wrong with "when in Rome do as the Romans do?It always served me well.And what's wrong with music?


iffo
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by iffo »

These folks going to cause more problem in the future. Send them back home..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... lCrlhGaXok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Sten
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Sten »

Must be a slow news day. Only 12 families, nothing to worry about. If it was 120 or 1200 I would be concerned.
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sum
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by sum »

These muslims are going to set a precedent which must be resisted. They should be told that they conform and if they do not they will be prosecuted and if they still do not conform they should be deported. They are splitting society which is totally unacceptable.

sum

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byteresistor
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by byteresistor »

Bible Study Boy wrote:Everyone should have the right to practice religion as they see fit
Suppose there is a religion which doesn't allow the practice of other religions. Should this religion be given the same rights as the rest? Let's also suppose they are given this right and then sometime in the future they have grown into a majority and are in power. Then this right would be taken away from you. At which point would you concede that you made a naive comment?

Heck I don't have to give an example of what might happen. I can give one where something DOES happen. Let's suppose there is a religion which's practise includes not treating women equals with men and the country you live in has a law that prohibits this kind of behavior. Which one should win? The law or respect for religion?

I have a right for these kind of people: if they do not like the law of the land they have the right to leave. I won't hold them back.

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enceladus
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by enceladus »

byteresistor wrote: (snip)
I have a right for these kind of people: if they do not like the law of the land they have the right to leave. I won't hold them back.


I agree!

Since these Muslims want to "excuse" their children from everything, I have an even better idea.

The Muslims should "excuse" themselves from our countries, and go to an Islamic country instead. They will feel much more at home there, amongst millions of other "forehead bangers"..... :worthy:
- enceladus

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Donnerschlag
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Donnerschlag »

byteresistor wrote:
Bible Study Boy wrote:Everyone should have the right to practice religion as they see fit
Suppose there is a religion which doesn't allow the practice of other religions. Should this religion be given the same rights as the rest? Let's also suppose they are given this right and then sometime in the future they have grown into a majority and are in power. Then this right would be taken away from you. At which point would you concede that you made a naive comment?

Heck I don't have to give an example of what might happen. I can give one where something DOES happen. Let's suppose there is a religion which's practise includes not treating women equals with men and the country you live in has a law that prohibits this kind of behavior. Which one should win? The law or respect for religion?

I have a right for these kind of people: if they do not like the law of the land they have the right to leave. I won't hold them back.
I couldn't agree more.

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Cassie
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Cassie »

I agree that Muslims should be allowed to excuse their children from certain school activities when they're only few. But once they are in a substantial population they should have their own schools. Personal choices should be the perogative of the individual, so long as they don't try to impose their views on others, as Muslims are apt to do. Muslims cross the line when they try to subvert the cultural / legal / societal norms of their host countries to force the majority to conform to their rules. There are some societal and legal norms that the majority should have the right to impose on all - but religion should not be one of them, except in certain circumstances that are deemed in the public interest.

Hence, if Muslims want to excuse their children from music and PE, I say let them - so long as they don't try to impose halal food in the school canteen or agitate for special Islamic toilets.

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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by sum »

Hello Cassie

I have to say that I take a much firmer line. I do not want any muslim child going to a muslim only school as this does nothing for integration and only reinforces the ability of muslims to have their own way. I would insist that they attend music lessons and PE. I would not give an inch. The time is rapidly approaching when a stand has to be made against Islam and if we can not do it now with the numbers of muslims at present we certainly will not be able to do so in the future.

I say put all possible pressure on muslims to conform with our culture to the point where they either comply or find the demands too much and so leave. This will sort the wheat from the chaff. We certainly do not want those who will not conform.

sum

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Sten
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Sten »

sum wrote:I have to say that I take a much firmer line. I do not want any muslim child going to a muslim only school as this does nothing for integration and only reinforces the ability of muslims to have their own way. I would insist that they attend music lessons and PE. I would not give an inch. The time is rapidly approaching when a stand has to be made against Islam and if we can not do it now with the numbers of muslims at present we certainly will not be able to do so in the future.
Well said Sum. If it's good enough for our kids, it's good enough for theirs. Learning music is an important part of a child's development, they should be no more able to opt out of music than they could maths or english.
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pr126
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by pr126 »

People should be raising questions about what kind of religion [culture] is which forbids music? Enforces gender apartheid? Oppresses women? Forbids leaving the religion and kills them if they do?
Do we really want these people inside our borders?

Are these questions even allowed to be asked?
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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enceladus
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by enceladus »

pr126 wrote:People should be raising questions about what kind of religion [culture] is which forbids music? Enforces gender apartheid? Oppresses women? Forbids leaving the religion and kills them if they do?

Exactly. Agreed.
pr126 wrote: Do we really want these people inside our borders?

Definitely not.
pr126 wrote: Are these questions even allowed to be asked?
In the current abysmally-P.C. climate, probably not. That means that the "climate" needs to be changed. Somehow, an anti-P.C. anti-Islam party needs to gain power in the U.K.

At least Germany seems to be waking up -
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9099" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A quote from that thread -
"Germany has had no populist, anti-Islamic party until now. Opinion polls suggest a party such as Freedom could get some 20 per cent of the vote in a general election. A recent survey commissioned by Berliner Zeitung, a local newspaper, showed as many as one in four Berliners could imagine voting for it."

The same kind of stuff is desperately needed in the U.K.
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byteresistor
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by byteresistor »

sum wrote:Hello Cassie

I have to say that I take a much firmer line. I do not want any muslim child going to a muslim only school as this does nothing for integration and only reinforces the ability of muslims to have their own way. I would insist that they attend music lessons and PE. I would not give an inch. The time is rapidly approaching when a stand has to be made against Islam and if we can not do it now with the numbers of muslims at present we certainly will not be able to do so in the future.

I say put all possible pressure on muslims to conform with our culture to the point where they either comply or find the demands too much and so leave. This will sort the wheat from the chaff. We certainly do not want those who will not conform.

sum
I agree. Faith schools (muslim faith schools in particular) create seperation within society. Our politicians have this completely backwards, they think seperation reinforces integration and community cohesion. They also seem to think multiculturalism is a synonym to seperation. Take a look at Britain for example, faith schools popping up all over the place. And the more there are, the more the standard of education goes down, aswell as community cohesion. Thank "god" we don't have faith schools in Finland. All get the same education.

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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by iffo »

byteresistor wrote:
sum wrote:Hello Cassie

I have to say that I take a much firmer line. I do not want any muslim child going to a muslim only school as this does nothing for integration and only reinforces the ability of muslims to have their own way. I would insist that they attend music lessons and PE. I would not give an inch. The time is rapidly approaching when a stand has to be made against Islam and if we can not do it now with the numbers of muslims at present we certainly will not be able to do so in the future.

I say put all possible pressure on muslims to conform with our culture to the point where they either comply or find the demands too much and so leave. This will sort the wheat from the chaff. We certainly do not want those who will not conform.

sum
I agree. Faith schools (muslim faith schools in particular) create seperation within society. Our politicians have this completely backwards, they think seperation reinforces integration and community cohesion. They also seem to think multiculturalism is a synonym to seperation. Take a look at Britain for example, faith schools popping up all over the place. And the more there are, the more the standard of education goes down, aswell as community cohesion. Thank "god" we don't have faith schools in Finland. All get the same education.
byteresistor in next few seconds you will be a millionaire.

As I am going to give you a million dollar suggestion. If you have a daughter and there is some Islamic school which let non-muslims as well, put your angel daughter in that school for few years.

She will mix and mingle with muslims, her best friends will be muslim and she will not develope same hate for them as you have developed being brought up in an isolated environment living middle of no where in Finland.

She will develope a multi dimensional personality and open mind, a heart full of love for all types of people. Plus she will also save herself from alcohol and god forbids chances of getting pregnent at 16, and ruining her career and daddy's dreams.

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byteresistor
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by byteresistor »

iffo wrote:byteresistor in next few seconds you will be a millionaire.

As I am going to give you a million dollar suggestion. If you have a daughter and there is some Islamic school which let non-muslims as well, put your angel daughter in that school for few years.

She will mix and mingle with muslims, her best friends will be muslim and she will not develope same hate for them as you have developed being brought up in an isolated environment living middle of no where in Finland.
Sorry dumbdumb but I wouldn't put my children to any school that is endorsed by a religion. Be it an islamic school, catholic school or whatever. And I find it funny when you claim an islamic school in particular makes people more tolerant toward eachother. Then why do the british for example find anti western/anti non-muslim material from islamic schools all the time? And furthermore I wouldn't put my children to a school to learn about morality or tolerance toward others, I can teach those myself. And it should be the responsibility of an parent to teach those in the first place. I put my children in a school to learn math etc. You know, the things a school is supposed to teach. It is not the schools responsibility to teach morality. The main purpose of an education is to get a profession and a job in the future. That's why faith schools don't work as well. Islamic faith schools in particular because many of them put main emphasis on religious brainwashing instead of trying to teach important skills to children. Skills that they have practical use for.

And here in "the middle of nowhere", in Finland we have the best elementary (and some could argue in other respects aswell) school system in the world. We produce results. What does Pakistan have? What does your schools produce apart from people who know how to stick their heads in the sand five times a day? Why does islamic countries have the highest unemployment in the world? Why are you lecturing me about my daughter supposedly "ruining her career" when the daughters of islam will not have a chance for a career in the first place for the most part?
She will develope a multi dimensional personality and open mind, a heart full of love for all types of people. Plus she will also save herself from alcohol and god forbids chances of getting pregnent at 16, and ruining her career and daddy's dreams.
My dream is that my children are happy, don't come lecture to me what my children do or will do.

And why do you have something against a woman getting pregnant at 16? It happens all the time in the islamic world. Actually it happens way before the age of 16.

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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by StrongLove »

The provincial & federal governments set the education standards. What constitutes graduation of any grade, from 1 to matriculation, is set by them & all students have to pass them. Even in a private school they will have to take music & PE.

What next, they'll adamantly request that it not be cold & snowy? That's part of coming to Canada & if you don't like it you should not have come here. Snow, cold & eduction that involves mingling with the opposite sex & (God forbid) the arts!
" The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

Winston Churchill

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Cassie
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Cassie »

iffo, the hate is solely with the Muslims, not the infidels.
Who is it who kills Ahmediyyas in Indonesia? Hint: not the infidels.
Who is it who kills Christians in Egypt and bombs churches? Hint: not the infidels.
Who is it who kills people who changes their religion? Hint: not the infidels.
Who is it who outlaws Shia Islam as a deviant religion? Hint: not the infidels.
Who is it who persecutes Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan? Hint: not the infidels.

You are certainly projecting, iffo. The hatred seems to be emanating only from the Muslims.

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pr126
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by pr126 »

Sten wrote:Must be a slow news day. Only 12 families, nothing to worry about. If it was 120 or 1200 I would be concerned.
I disagree.

A precedence has been made.
Never give an inch. You know very well where it will lead.

Slippery slope.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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gizzin
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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by gizzin »

Its called a religion but in reality its a man made political cult.... if they are happy to be so brainwashed then who are the likes of me to be concerned.... until you bring it to my doorstep!

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Re: Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed clas

Post by Ram »

iffo wrote:byteresistor in next few seconds you will be a millionaire.

As I am going to give you a million dollar suggestion. If you have a daughter and there is some Islamic school which let non-muslims as well, put your angel daughter in that school for few years.

She will mix and mingle with muslims, her best friends will be muslim and she will not develope same hate for them as you have developed being brought up in an isolated environment living middle of no where in Finland.

She will develope a multi dimensional personality and open mind, a heart full of love for all types of people. Plus she will also save herself from alcohol and god forbids chances of getting pregnent at 16, and ruining her career and daddy's dreams.
Joke of the year! iffo, you make me laugh. Your million dollar suggestion belongs in the garbage can. First of all, an Islamic school never accept a non-Muslim child. Secondly, it will be foolish for bytetesistor, to do what you are suggesting. Half of the time Muslim kids are taught to recite the Quran, which is totally irrelevant in today's world, in a language even majority Muslims do not understand. Do you understand Arabic?
iffo wrote:her best friends will be muslims and she will develope same hate for them
Kids are not taught to hate Muslims in the West. As a matter of fact, majority of people, who are mostly Christians, go out of their way to accommodate Muslims in many aspects of life, like not serving pork in places where Muslims gather etc. Some thing like this never happens in Pakistan. Would you send you kid to a Christian only school? Would you preach something like this to a Muslim in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?

Speaking of hate, it is Muslims who teach their children to hate Jews and Christians in Canadian Muslim schools - it is a fact. iffo, either you are totally naive or you think we don't know how Muslims think. In a Muslim school, byteresistors's daughter will be taught to hate her father.
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سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
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