iffo wrote:Sten unfortunately what works for west does not necessarily works for us.
Because Islamic society is not based on freedom and a respect for others' freedoms, it is based on telling people what they have to say, do, and believe. If this were not true, then apostasy would not be illegal in Muslim countries. There is no freedom or honour in a society which prevents people by law from leaving a religion.
iffo wrote:Even me being the most moderate muslim can not give free license to people who are hatemongers/missionaries/hindu fundamentalists etc who have different agendas and want to settle scores to go and talk nonsense about Muhammad/Allah. Every other day there would be article in paper saying "Muhammad the bastard" or "Allah is evil" and our people can not say the same thing back to them as we are suppose to respect others' prophets as most of them are also our prophets. My people will always be on defense that will cause lot of agony and frustration in public.
So you think hurt feelings is enough reason to destroy freedom? Part of the reason Muslims get so violent when they hear their religion being mocked is because they are not used to it. You people think your religion is more important than anything else including people, and that is where your society fails. Nothing is more important than people's lives and freedom.
Think about this, Iffo. When you start legislating against free speech, it is a very slippery slope. It would go from a moderate fine for insulting Mohammad, to a heavy fine, to jail time. You know as well as I do that once you give Muslims a way of silencing people who criticize, they will abuse the power as much as they possibly can. Give them an inch, and they will demand a mile. You yourself have said that westerners are foolish to aquiesce to the demands of the Islamists, yet here you are agreeing with one of their most toxic and anti-human agendas.
Parody and satire is an extremely important part of western culture, and to take this away would leave an irreparable scar. It is very important that people be allowed to make fun of whoever and whatever they want, hurt feelings be damned. If I want to say "Mohammad is a bastard" or "Allah is evil", that is my RIGHT to say so. If you don't like what someone says, you have the freedom not to listen, or to insult them, or to tell them they are wrong. If you try to silence them, I'm afraid that makes you my enemy, and the enemy of all westerners. Voltaire put it nicely - he said I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
I am sorry Iffo, but if you oppose the basic right to free speech then you are not a moderate Muslim. You are just a wishy washy fundamentalist. It worries me that most other "moderate" Muslims seem to be the same way. You all talk of peace and tolerance, but when we get down to brass tacks we discover you share many of the fundamentalists' most obnoxious and toxic beliefs.
iffo wrote:That's why I can remove the serious punishments like death of life in prison but I will definately keep some fine which may not be a huge one but still there would be some. I will allow constructive criticism of islam and debates with no insults involved. Any thing other than that will be just wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is it wishful thinking to want your society to stay free, with people free to make fun of what they want? Is it wishful thinking to not want a hostile, primitive culture that is resistant to change, encroaching on your freedoms? People who make fun of Islam already recieve death threats and hate mail from Muslims, now you want to make laws that prosecute them too? Just whose side are you on?
Read some of these quotes and tell me what you think.
I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only weapon against bad ideas is better ideas.
- Alfred Whitney Griswold
A free press can be good or bad, but, most certainly, without freedom a press will never be anything but bad.
- Albert Camus
The populist authoritarianism that is the downside of political correctness means that anyone, sometimes it seems like everyone, can proclaim their grief and have it acknowledged. The victim culture, every sufferer grasping for their own Holocaust, ensures that anyone who feels offended can call for moderation, for dilution, and in the end, as is all too often the case, for censorship. And censorship, that by-product of fear - stemming as it does not from some positive agenda, but from the desire to escape our own terrors and superstitions by imposing them on others - must surely be resisted.
- Jonathon Green
The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
- Carl Sagan