She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

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Maersk
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Maersk »

Such great affinity to a piece of clothing is indeed admirable in modern and secular India. Indian overseas can only take much pride of their old grand dame.

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:
Maersk wrote:Wouldn't it be better if the Indians in the old country wear the hijab like Muslims do.
President of India, a Hindu, wears a hijab!
There is no law in India which requires the Hindu women to cover their heads. If someone covers her head it is her choice. Most of the Hindu women do not cover their heads.

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:So what you are acknowledging is that you have not worn a modern dress yet. A lot of such attitude could be traced to Gandhi's abandonment of western dress for that of an Indian village farmer. It was followed by Nehru wearing native Muslim dress. Effects of such are lasting. Even the skirt wearing Sonia had to change into Sari or SK to get votes. All Indian politicians do the same. The bottom line of all this is that Indians as a people are very reluctant to change with the times. Indians also have exaggerated notions of what modesty is all about, though it is a more recent development. Couple all that with their false cultural pride. You get a tripple whammy. In this aspect Indian culture is more similar to Islamic one than the Far eastern one. Another thing is that no matter how such things are emphasized Indian people just don't get it. On the contrary they get offended, and make belittling remarks as you do. It is as though there is a deep cultural chasm.

Your justification that one wears what makes one comfortable does not cut it. Though that is true to a degree, what one wears for modern work/business is a lot more than that. If one goes with what you wrote, then all Indians should wear only a waist down lungi, as they used to do in ancient times. Actually it is the most comfortable dress for living in the hot tropical India - Gandhi style.
Yohan, let the people wear what they prefer to wear. Why do you want to dictate like Talibans, what people should wear and what they should not?

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:Seems typical statements from someone who have a love-hate relationship with Hindu hardline organizations. My recommendation to you: Don't love a religion because you are born into it.
Let the people believe and practice what they feel is best for them. Do not brainwash them into believing your ideas. Do not force them to believe what you believe.

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:
BBG wrote:
Yohan wrote:The wisdom I see is that Indians like you are mentally incapable of digesting such things. Hindus adopted this medieval Muslim dress code Salwar Kammeze because it wraps so much of their body, as their culture wraps so much of their life. I have said in this forum that: "What one wears outside is a reflection of what one wears inside. It is a projection of how one thinks. If subcontinentals wear medieval dress they also have a medieval mindset." In this world, apart from Hindus only Muslims exhibit such an addiction to their culture.
:lol: So much fuss about dressing, only yohan's wisdom is capable of that :lol:
Me fussing about dressing! Come on!! You are the one who refuse to wear the modern dress!
Salwar Kameez and Sari are very comfortable to wear for some ladies. Also an over weight lady can look good in these. None of your so called moredern or western dress for women offer this advantage. The over weight women always have inferiority complex while wearing western dress. The western dresses are designed for perfect body shape. Nothing is absolutely perfect in this world.

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:You have your Hinduism. You have your utopian Hinduism. I am not talking about your Hinduism. I am talking about the Hinduism as practiced by most Hindus. There is no proof that Hindus are practicing what you believe or claim. As I have always said, there is a litmus test to prove it. The McDonalds test! If I order a Hamburgher in India, and if it comes with beef, I know Hindus have come of age. So far Hinduism has failed in that test.
In India, McDonald does not sale Hamburger. There's No Beef or Pork in Any McDonald's in India... They know that if they sale beef or pork they would loose business in India. If you go to any McDonalds in India their menu is divided into 2 parts - Vegeterian and Non-Vegeterian.

Instead of ground beef and pork patties, the McDonald's Menu in India features Indian burgers that are 100 percent vegetarian - burger look-a-likes of potatoes, peas, and carrots, with a little Indian spice thrown in. So what most Indian kids grow up to know as a hamburger, isn't really a hamburger.

Diets in India have been impacted by the many different religions in India for centuries now. Hindus don't eat beef. Hindu believers consider the cow scared and holy, so harming a cow...let alone eating its meat is considered a grave sin. Since a majority of the population are followers of Hinduism, there is no beef on the McDonalds' menu in India. Hindu's and Muslims (also a prominent religion in India), don't eat pork, so the McDonalds Corporation in India is quick to point out on their website (mcdonaldsinindia.com) that not only is there no beef, there is no pork or pork byproducts in any McDonalds restaurant in India.

That's not to say that McDonald's doesn't serve any non-vegetarian products in their Indian restaurants. They do serve chicken burgers and still have the one Fish Burger...but if you're a meat eater..then you'll be outnumbered with their vegetarian options.
Yohan wrote:This particularly is a weakness for Hindus and Hinduism. India is the home land of Hindus. Why can't they find a couple of Hindus from a billion, with the wisdom and enlightenment to lead themselves into modernity? Why do they have to rely upon others? Weren't they the ones who produced Gandhi and Nehru? What has gone wrong? Why do they now produce BJP/RSS type intolerants?
Nehru screwed up India a big time. Kashmir problem was created as a result of his poor policies. We do not need any more Nehrus who would do more harm to India than helping its cause.

Yohan
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Yohan »

secularmindedhindu wrote:In India, McDonald does not sale Hamburger. There's No Beef or Pork in Any McDonald's in India... They know that if they sale beef or pork they would loose business in India. If you go to any McDonalds in India their menu is divided into 2 parts - Vegeterian and Non-Vegeterian.

Instead of ground beef and pork patties, the McDonald's Menu in India features Indian burgers that are 100 percent vegetarian - burger look-a-likes of potatoes, peas, and carrots, with a little Indian spice thrown in. So what most Indian kids grow up to know as a hamburger, isn't really a hamburger.
McDonalds in India need to start another menu in addition, called 'Modern Menu' with real beef. Atleast backward Hindus and Muslims would get to feel what rest of the people on this planet eat. Optional of course!

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:McDonalds in India need to start another menu in addition, called 'Modern Menu' with real beef. Atleast backward Hindus and Muslims would get to feel what rest of the people on this planet eat. Optional of course!
Fortunately, McDonalds has better business sense than you. They understand the market demand.

In India you have to do business with an 'Indian menu' and not your so-called 'mordern menu'.

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Maersk
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

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Indians can develop and export their own 'HALAL' certification process to serve the Indian disapora better. :biggrin: Indian Muslims have theirs and Indian Christians will have to develop their own program as well to complete the picture. Then there is the issue of head dressing?!! :worthy:

Yohan
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Yohan »

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Last edited by Yohan on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

yeezevee
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by yeezevee »

Moving from "Made in India" to "Made for India" Wall Street Journal..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124296365608246379.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Two years ago, I visited Shanghai on a business trip and went to the famous Yu-yuan gardens. Outside the tourist attraction, like every other in the world, were hoards of souvenir stores selling locally produced handicrafts. The beautiful wood and jade carvings, painted silk screens and other memorabilia had faces created on them. I thought they would be holy Chinese images, but on closer inspection they turned out to be portraits of Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Tom Cruise and even George Bush. This would never happen in India. We have our own set of demigods in Bollywood actors and cricketers.


The Maoist Revolution in China turned their cultural identity into a clean slate, which is the reason their dressing, tastes and aspirations are largely inspired by the western world. India, in contrast, has given a stubbornly tough time to McDonalds, KFC and others as they tried to gain a foothold in the Indian market unless they "Indianized" their menus. By this, I mean that the menu must be suited to the Indian budget and the Indian palette. At Indian weddings, we proudly flash Indian designers and traditional Indian wear, which is why few Western designers have been able to succeed with their formal range of clothing here. The number of successful indigenous brands in India has created a new consumer class who are happy to flaunt their cultural identity.
But this wasn't always the case. Growing up in India in the 1980s and 1990s, anything "imported" was considered superior. There were certain markets in all cities that would sell smuggled electronics, foodstuffs and other consumer products. Ads with foreign models in them meant the product had been endorsed by a developed country and would be priced at a premium in India.

After liberalization and the flood of foreign brands in India, this phenomenon is changing. Slowly, steadily and very subtly. You will notice that advertising in India now reflects pride in the country.
“All in all, Indian advertising is reflective of the overall sentiment of pride in India.”

A few years ago, ads were largely targeted towards the middle-class where the wife would be a simple and unassuming lady dressed in a cotton sari. The other type would be foreign ads with images of a better land and lifestyle, with a white person as the protagonist.

Interestingly, now these ads are starting to merge. You will have the same detergent brands with women in stylish dresses in a modern house with minimalist décor. The ads are often shot in locations such as Thailand and the models are often Brazilian or even from Iceland. Model agencies have set up shop in India and promote white models with black hair to portray a "wealthy, well-traveled and international" Indian.

Consumers believe that these people are Indian, and they start to identify with the product, but are still drawn to fairer skin. This is rather simple math – in a country where fair skin is identified with wealth and beauty, just the color of the model's skin can elevate the value of the brand. This phenomena is dominant across Asia, where fairness creams are the highest selling cosmetic product and are even available for men.

What is heartening to see is that the importance of local heroes in film and sport has made western celebrities less prominent. It gives us a sense of pride when an Indian film actress walks down the red carpet at Cannes, and she is a role model for many young Indian girls. We like to see people we identify with as successes and this will increase the ambitions of the large youth population in India. Our role models now are Indians who have made their mark abroad and made the country proud.

India is a country where the culture and language changes every 100 miles, and so does the mindset. Foreign brands have realized that the way to reach the hearts of the vast variety of consumers is by getting their products endorsed by a Bollywood actor or cricketer. For example, watch company TAG Heuer has the best formula-one racers and actors on its endorsement payroll. Yet, they have signed Indian actors as ambassadors in India because Leonardo Di Caprio is just not going to cut the cloth among Indians.

All in all, Indian advertising is reflective of the overall sentiment of pride in India. The ads are targeted towards the youth and the medium is the "International Indian." The products that have succeeded are those that created a new recipe that suits local tastes yet promises global success to the user.

The message is loud and clear – if a foreign brand wants to succeed in India, you gotta add a little spice to it. It's quite a far cry from being nationalistic, but it's a strong message that Indians are prouder of their identity than ever before and won't be interested unless they see an effort from a brand to 'Indianize' their offering.
interesting article on that McDonald and India
yeezevee

yeezevee
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by yeezevee »

And I wonder does THIS ALSO HAPPEN IN INDIA?? Indians Be sincere..
Anjum Gill wrote that some time back http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 005_pg7_17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You guys at least North Indians know WHO "GILLS" ARE RIGHT??
Eat drink man woman and child (but not the maid)

LAHORE: A young mother decided to take her children to Freddy’s Café, a popular restaurant on MM Alam Road one afternoon. Accompanied by her children, the youngest of whom was in the arms of her maid, she approached the entrance of the restaurant, only to be stopped. The café management informed her that the maid was not allowed inside.
A signboard at the entrance read, “No servants or maids allowed”. “When the British ruled India, it was the norm to see signboards that read ‘Dogs and Indians not allowed? How can we allow such discrimination today?” she said.

For the restaurant management it is not a matter of discrimination but of ensuring the comfort of its clientele.

“Some customers would come in with bodyguards who would stare at customers. Drivers would walk in to hand cell phones or cigarettes to their employers and would also stare at women. We encourage families to dine at our restaurant and cannot afford to create an environment which creates problems and makes our diners uncomfortable,” said Imran Butt, the manager of the cafe. Once a maid was accused of stealing the cell phone of another diner.
...As Imran Butt told Daily Times, “People bring their maids and servants but don’t allow them to sit at the same table as themselves. The employees and the children sit at a different table. The servants are only given the leftovers which they eat in the play area.”

The owner of a restaurant in Defence also testified to this. “We don’t stop people from bring their servants in. Generally they are busy running after the children who don’t sit still. If there are empty tables, they would sit down on a separate one from their employers.”
yeezevee

Yohan
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Yohan »

yeezevee wrote:
The ads are often shot in locations such as Thailand and the models are often Brazilian or even from Iceland. Model agencies have set up shop in India and promote white models with black hair to portray a "wealthy, well-traveled and international" Indian.

Consumers believe that these people are Indian, and they start to identify with the product, but are still drawn to fairer skin. This is rather simple math – in a country where fair skin is identified with wealth and beauty, just the color of the model's skin can elevate the value of the brand. This phenomena is dominant across Asia, where fairness creams are the highest selling cosmetic product and are even available for men.
-----------------------------------
it's a strong message that Indians are prouder of their identity than ever before and won't be interested unless they see an effort from a brand to 'Indianize' their offering.
interesting article on that McDonald and India
Of all the people I have come across, Indians (all subcontinentals actually) are the most sensitive when it comes to skin color. They are the most color conscious people on the planet. They can accurately differentiate so many shades of dark brown skin. If one has the lighter shades, they would say it is 'fair' skin. The word fair means beautiful and has nothing to with any shade of color. Such is the adoration of Indians towards light skin, also contempt towards their own dark skin.

About 95% of all Indians are dark. Richer or upper crust may have a little more sprinkling of light skin, that's it, gotten by 'fair skin' select breeding. (Brahmins have more of this sprinkling, but they are so few.). So if Indians are so proud of their identity and Indianize everything, as the above article says, it ought to start with taking pride in themselves, the way they look, rather than stealing someone else's looks and identity. When will Indians stop such shameless behaviors?
Last edited by Yohan on Sun May 31, 2009 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yeezevee
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by yeezevee »

Richer or upper crust may have a little more sprinkling of light skin, that's it,
that may be true in SOUTH INDIA., but that is NOT true in North and in Land of Pure and in Nepal.. there are MILLIONS of lower crust that have light skin..

Image

Image

with a bit of money that girl and this baby could model to sell any product..

But it is true all Kings and queens of Indian subcontinent until recently are wheatish white , Not wheatish black

yeezevee

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

yeezevee wrote:And I wonder does THIS ALSO HAPPEN IN INDIA?? Indians Be sincere..
Anjum Gill wrote that some time back http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 005_pg7_17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You guys at least North Indians know WHO "GILLS" ARE RIGHT??
Eat drink man woman and child (but not the maid)

LAHORE: A young mother decided to take her children to Freddy’s Café, a popular restaurant on MM Alam Road one afternoon. Accompanied by her children, the youngest of whom was in the arms of her maid, she approached the entrance of the restaurant, only to be stopped. The café management informed her that the maid was not allowed inside.
A signboard at the entrance read, “No servants or maids allowed”. “When the British ruled India, it was the norm to see signboards that read ‘Dogs and Indians not allowed? How can we allow such discrimination today?” she said.

For the restaurant management it is not a matter of discrimination but of ensuring the comfort of its clientele.

“Some customers would come in with bodyguards who would stare at customers. Drivers would walk in to hand cell phones or cigarettes to their employers and would also stare at women. We encourage families to dine at our restaurant and cannot afford to create an environment which creates problems and makes our diners uncomfortable,” said Imran Butt, the manager of the cafe. Once a maid was accused of stealing the cell phone of another diner.
...As Imran Butt told Daily Times, “People bring their maids and servants but don’t allow them to sit at the same table as themselves. The employees and the children sit at a different table. The servants are only given the leftovers which they eat in the play area.”

The owner of a restaurant in Defence also testified to this. “We don’t stop people from bring their servants in. Generally they are busy running after the children who don’t sit still. If there are empty tables, they would sit down on a separate one from their employers.”
yeezevee
In urban India, it would not happen. If anywhere a signboard is put up showing “No servants or maids allowed”, then, it there would be immediate protests from the public and it would become a political issue.

Lahore is not in India. It is in Pakistan.
Last edited by secularmindedhindu on Sun May 31, 2009 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:Of all the people I have come across, Indians (all subcontinentals actually) are the most sensitive when it comes to skin color. They are the most color conscious people on the planet. They can accurately differentiate so many shades of dark brown skin. If one has the lighter shades, they would say it is 'fair' skin. The word fair means beautiful and has nothing to with any shade of color. Such is the adoration of Indians towards light skin, also contempt towards their own dark skin.

About 95% of all Indians are dark. Richer or upper crust may have a little more sprinkling of light skin, that's it, gotten by 'fair skin' select breeding. (Brahmins have more of this sprinkling, but they are so few.). So if Indians are so proud of their identity and Indianize everything, as the above article says, it ought to start with taking pride in themselves, the way they look, rather than stealing someone else's looks and identity. When will Indians stop such shameless behaviors?
The discrimination based on skin colour is nothing new outside India. The black people from Africa were made slaves to work for the white skinned people of European origin. The black had to fight for their rights all the way in USA and only recently they have got their full civil rights.

In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very fair complexion, fair complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with fair complexion is superior.

Yohan
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Yohan »

secularmindedhindu wrote:In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very fair complexion, fair complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with fair complexion is superior.
Let me translate what SMH is really saying for the rest, I am substituting word 'fair' with its correct meaning 'beautiful'. Here it is:

"In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very BEAUTIFUL complexion, BEAUTIFUL complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with BEAUTIFUL complexion is superior."

secularmindedhindu

Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by secularmindedhindu »

Yohan wrote:
secularmindedhindu wrote:In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very fair complexion, fair complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with fair complexion is superior.
Let me translate what SMH is really saying for the rest, I am substituting word 'fair' with its correct meaning 'beautiful'. Here it is:

"In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very BEAUTIFUL complexion, BEAUTIFUL complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with BEAUTIFUL complexion is superior."
Fair and Beautiful do not have the same meaning.
One can have fair complexion. But the term 'beautiful complexion' does not make any sense.

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Maersk
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Maersk »

Aye ... translated well. As the Indians from the sub-continent fan out into the world they will take these baggage with them. The previous generation of INDIANs who have assimilated well into other societies are often the first to notice these traits, traits that they have lost. New Indians will Indianize the world with Saree, Indian Halal Food, and of course "Hinduness."

Yohan
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Re: She wants to understand Taliban., Indian Lady Arundhati Roy

Post by Yohan »

secularmindedhindu wrote:
Yohan wrote:
secularmindedhindu wrote:In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very fair complexion, fair complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with fair complexion is superior.
Let me translate what SMH is really saying for the rest, I am substituting word 'fair' with its correct meaning 'beautiful'. Here it is:

"In contrast in India there has never been such a deep-rooted discrimination based on skin colour. In India one can have people with very BEAUTIFUL complexion, BEAUTIFUL complexion, brown complexion and dark complexion. The skin colour varies widely from person to person. So Indians never made laws to institutionalise discrimination based on skin colour. But there is subtle feeling among many people that one with BEAUTIFUL complexion is superior."
Fair and Beautiful do not have the same meaning.
One can have fair complexion. But the term 'beautiful complexion' does not make any sense.
Indians just don't get it! Get an English dictionary and look it up. 'Fair' has nothing to do with skin color or any color. Indians consider light skin beautiful, so they started using the word 'fair' for it. The use of the word 'fair' for Indian's skin color shows their own inferiority complex. I hope you get it this time.

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