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Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:01 am
by Ariel
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A number of British forces have been captured by the Syrian army during military operations in Eastern Ghouta, according to reports by local media.

According to a report by Al-Mayadeen news channel cited by Fars News, a number of British troops have been captured during the Syrian Arab Army's operations in Eastern Ghouta.

They are believed to be a part of international military forces deployed in the region to launch a ground assault in Damascus in cooperation with the US. According to the report, the US and other NATO countries, Jordan and Israel planned to launch attacks from several fronts, but the plot failed as Syrian armed forces made a series of rapid advances in Eastern Ghouta in March. The plot allegedly involved massive airstrikes by US and Israeli planes that were supposed to pave the way for ground forces.

"After the plot was disclosed, the Syrian-Russian military commanders started operations in Eastern Ghouta to repel it," the sources cited by Al-Mayadeen and Fars said.

Since the plot failed due to rapid advances by the Syrian army, the US cancelled all operations planned for these foreign forces and ordered an immediate withdrawal from Eastern Ghouta through the eastern suburbs of Damascus, including Douma.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201804 ... ia-ghouta/


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Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:45 am
by pr126

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:15 am
by pr126
I have watched the alleged gas attack on Youtube.

Here are some questions.

How come only children are affected? Appeal to emotion?

Why the people decontaminating are not wearing any protective clothing?

Where are the dead from this attack?

How can sarin gas be decontaminated with simple tap water?

Who is doing the filming? Who is verifying?

What benefit could Assad have from all the negative response and an attack from the world?

I am skeptical about this. Looks like a Pallywood production.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:20 am
by pr126
Ariel, the first photo in your post is from the Iranian incident where American navy was detained.
Someone is reusing old photos. Beware of propaganda.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-midd ... vy-sailors.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:35 am
by Ariel
pr126 wrote:Ariel, the first photo in your post is from the Iranian incident where American navy was detained.
Someone is reusing old photos. Beware of propaganda.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-midd ... vy-sailors.


Thanks for the warning PR.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:50 am
by Ariel
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An explosion on the outskirts of Damascus after Western strikes reportedly hit Syrian military bases and chemical research centres in and around the capital © AFP


US, Britain and France launch airstrikes on Syria in response to the 'evil and despicable' chemical attack by 'monster' Assad as Trump challenges Putin for supporting 'mass murder of innocents'


I am angry. Angry at myself, and angry at Trump. But I am more angry at myself, because of my trust in Trump. I believed him when he said he want peace and nor war.

How stupid I have been to believe him.

Trump a couple of yours ago. Yes..Now YOU look stupid mr Trump :heh:

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Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:44 pm
by Ariel
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Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:42 pm
by Ariel
Leave it to John McCain to keep the drums of war beating. He won’t be satisfied until the secular Syrian government is overthrown and his jihadist buddies declare a new caliphate from Damascus.


McCain to Trump: Airstrikes alone won't achieve objectives in Syria

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Friday praised President Trump for ordering airstrikes in Syria, but cautioned they do not make up for a lack of strategy.

“I applaud the president for taking military action against the Assad regime for its latest use of chemical weapons, and for signaling his resolve to do so again if these heinous attacks continue,” McCain said in a statement.

“To succeed in the long run, we need a comprehensive strategy for Syria and the entire region,” he added later. “The president needs to lay out our goals, not just with regard to ISIS, but also the ongoing conflict in Syria and malign Russian and Iranian influence in the region. Airstrikes disconnected from a broader strategy may be necessary, but they alone will not achieve U.S. objectives in the Middle East.”


Earlier Friday night, Trump announced that he ordered “precision strikes” against “targets associated with the chemical weapons capabilities” of Assad in retaliation for last weekend's chemical attack in the Syrian town of Douma.

“We are prepared to sustain this response until the Syrian regime stops its use of prohibited chemical agents,” Trump said.

The operation, which came after a week of deliberation, was carried out in coordination with Britain and France, leaders from the countries said.

McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has long advocated for a more robust U.S. military response to the Syrian civil war.

He’s also repeatedly knocked Trump for not having comprehensive strategies for a slew of global hotspots, including Syria.

In his statement Friday, McCain thanked Britain and France for helping in the operation and said he hopes Assad gets the message.

“I hope these strikes impose meaningful costs on Assad,” he said. “The message to Assad must be that the cost of using chemical weapons is worse than any perceived benefit, that the United States and our allies have the will and capability to continue imposing those costs, and that Iran and Russia will ultimately be unsuccessful in protecting Assad from our punitive response.”

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:58 pm
by Hombre
Ariel wrote:There is no proof Assad did it Hombre. How much I love Israel, and stand behind them, I still want to be honest and fair to Assad and his people. Trump is ( perhaps ) going to attack Syrie to appease Israel.

Please read this thread and the comments, and look at the pictures. .

https://twitter.com/EvaKBartlett/status ... 3483066369
Sadam Hussein & Assad own father also claimed the same "There is no proof" when they gassed their own people in the 1980 & 90's.

Eva Bartlett is just another individual like you and me who expresses her own opinion, and she is entitled to - though not necessarily true. Much like uber-conservatives in US claim "Deep state conspiracy to remove (the way they put it) our duly elected president".

Israel does not need - nor ever asked anyone else to handle Syria, Hizbollah, Hamas, and even Iranian forces in Syria for it. (Iran's nuclear program is a different story). As we have seen, IDF is doing a fine job defending the country.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:06 pm
by Hombre
pr126 wrote:I have watched the alleged gas attack on Youtube.

Here are some questions.

How come only children are affected? Appeal to emotion?

Why the people decontaminating are not wearing any protective clothing?

Where are the dead from this attack?

How can sarin gas be decontaminated with simple tap water?

Who is doing the filming? Who is verifying?

What benefit could Assad have from all the negative response and an attack from the world?

I am skeptical about this. Looks like a Pallywood production.
The attacked was made with chlorine gas - the same material used to maintain swimming pools. It is by far less toxic than sarin gas

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:12 am
by manfred
There is something about this story that bothers me... In any crime, if you are looking for the culprit, you would want at ask "who benefited?"

As I understand it, Assad was on the verge of taking this area from the "rebels" when the attack happened. So how did it benefit Assad? The answer is it obviously did not. Also, any halfway intelligent person would realise that such an action could and would not help Assad's case. Who was actually helped? Well, this seems to be the rebels. They have turned Assad even more into a pariah if that is possible, and most importantly they got Trump and others to fight their battles for them. This certainly makes them, at least for me, a much more plausible suspect for the attack.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:23 am
by pr126
manfred wrote:There is something about this story that bothers me... In any crime, if you are looking for the culprit, you would want at ask "who benefited?"

As I understand it, Assad was on the verge of taking this area from the "rebels" when the attack happened. So how did it benefit Assad? The answer is it obviously did not. Also, any halfway intelligent person would realise that such an action could and would not help Assad's case. Who was actually helped? Well, this seems to be the rebels. They have turned Assad even more into a pariah if that is possible, and most importantly they got Trump and others to fight their battles for them. This certainly makes them, at least for me, a much more plausible suspect for the attack.

I agree. I am of the same opinion.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:54 am
by Ariel
Hombre wrote:Sadam Hussein & Assad own father also claimed the same "There is no proof" when they gassed their own people in the 1980 & 90's.
.


Hafiz al-Assad is long dead Hombre. You are cheating. We are discussing his son Bashar al-Assad.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:40 pm
by sum
Who benefitted? There is one possibility to be considered. It is not beyond the possibility that Russia was behind all this. Perhaps Russia encouraged Assad to perpetrate this evil deed as he had nothing to lose beyond what people already thought him to be. If Assad was behind this gassing then Russia must have known and given consent for it to happen. Why? Russia could have been testing Trump`s resolve and seeing if he was another Obama - full of talk about red lines and no action.

It appears that Russia was warned about what was going to happen ie just the WMD plants being attacked and not Assad or the military. This would give insight into the ability of the USA`s strike force without endangering Russian "advisors", Assad, his military or the Syrian population. I do not think that Assad has lost much at all regarding his "popularity" but Russia has gained insight into the effectiveness or otherwise of the USA`s military.

Just another thought.

sum

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:51 pm
by Ariel
I think that the White Helmets and the rebels were behind all this. What do you think sum?

Thomas Binder, a cardiologist says...

As a cardiologist I can say that these ECG electrodes are completely wrong positioned. They would not get any signal. This picture is faked!

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Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:45 pm
by sum
Hello Ariel

As far as who is actually behind all this, I do not know. I am not too sure how the chlorine was delivered - was it by barrel bomb? If it was I have to ask if the rebels, or whoever, had access to helicopters?

If it was those who were opposed to Assad then why did not Russia kick up a fuss right at the very beginning?

With regard to the ECG, I`m afraid that the photo is not very helpful at all and I can only presume that the cardiologist must have seen something that was not clear to me.

sum

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:19 pm
by idesigner1
Secretary Mathis was asked what kind of gas was used by Syria. He finally admitted that they had used Chlorine. Now chlorine can be manufactured in large quantity by a chemist with little training. It's common ingredient of tear gas as well as seawater ! Chances are Syrians may have used tear gas and saturated the place with gas which could have killed civilians. Assad regime is very very brutal but it enjoys support of all religious minorities as it fights Isis.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:26 pm
by Hombre
Ariel wrote:
Hombre wrote:Sadam Hussein & Assad own father also claimed the same "There is no proof" when they gassed their own people in the 1980 & 90's.
.


Hafiz al-Assad is long dead Hombre. You are cheating. We are discussing his son Bashar al-Assad.
Like father like son. Bashar carries his father's genes, and lust for murder of innocent people.

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:48 pm
by Fernando
The Mail on Sunday today claims that the French have proof the Assad was to blame: the White Helmets have produced a photograph of a chlorine cylinder on the roof of a bombed building. How this is supposed to fit with the chlorine being delivered by barrel bombs, I don't know - gas cylinders are very strong and are regularly thrown about in yards without coming to any harm unless the tap is damaged.
On the other hand, if I wanted to gas the occupants of a building, getting onto the roof with a cylinder of chlorine would be a good start. If I wanted to fake an attack, an empty cylinder would do.
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Another photo of a related incident shows a cylinder that appears to have been squashed - quite an achievement.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5616485/French-MI6-dossier-reveals-44-incidents-toxic-agents-used-combat.html

Re: chemical weapons attack in Syria

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:18 pm
by manfred
sum wrote:Hello Ariel

As far as who is actually behind all this, I do not know. I am not too sure how the chlorine was delivered - was it by barrel bomb? If it was I have to ask if the rebels, or whoever, had access to helicopters?

If it was those who were opposed to Assad then why did not Russia kick up a fuss right at the very beginning?

With regard to the ECG, I`m afraid that the photo is not very helpful at all and I can only presume that the cardiologist must have seen something that was not clear to me.

sum



Hi sum, dropping chlorine in a bomb would be not very efficient as the blast would quickly disperse it. As a gas, it HEAVIER that air. So it would linger on lower surfaces and "slosh around" for a while, and this would explain why seeming children are more affected than taller adults. It was used in WWI precisely because of this property... it would collect in the trenches. It was then released from slightly pressurised containers which were pointed at the enemy, when the wind was right, and simply pierced.

It can be produced easily and cheaply: In the middle of the vat, glued in, is a porous separation made from a piece of asbestos. Fill both compartments with sea water and seal the whole thing. Allow a plastic pipe as vent on each side of the contraption. When the asbestos is saturated, and the sea water in both compartments are in contact, run some electricity through it, direct current, say from a car battery. From the positive half you can collect chlorine, and from the negative one hydrogen. If you add cooking salt to the seawater you get a better yield.

An even simpler way uses just a sealed container with a single vent on the top, and salt water, if you pass electric current through that you get a mixture of hydrogen and chlorine, equally effective as an irritant gas.

As a means of delivery, it would have to be delivered from the ground. Delivering with any sort of bomb, it the heat would make the gas not only disperse very fast, it would also largely react with anything else it comes into contact with, specially any chalky substance such as plaster, rendering it harmless.

The photos Ariel provided actually strongly support the suggestion that it was delivered from the ground. Look at the containers. They have not been in any explosion. This raises another question.... Who could actually place these containers there?
You would to have control over the area they are found in, and the range is at best a couple of hundred yards. So unless we also have some evidence that Assad's forces were actually in physical control of the ground the containers were found, at the time of the attack, we must rule out Assad as the possible culprit.

This brings me to the idea of your that the Russians plotted this to "test" Trump"... Would that not be a very risky strategy for Russia? And either way, Trumps seems to have been duped here...