And Las Vegas? Surely not?

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Fernando
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And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

Understandably, we had no thread on the Las Vegas massacre. Hopefully, this really belongs to Fake News or Conspiracy Theories, but....
Las Vegas shooting latest: ISIS claims responsibility for attack as 50 killed and 200 injured
ISIS has claimed responsibility for the Las Vegas shooting - news agency Amaq has reported the “executor”, identified as Stephen Paddock, is one of the terror groups “soldiers” and “converted to Islam months ago”.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk- ... responsive and
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas- ... ror-group/
It may well be fake propaganda, but even if so it's still news: showing how desperate they are.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by manfred »

This is indeed very odd...

According to most reports, the perpetrator was a 64 year old retired accountant, and we are not told why he did this. So why would ISIS make such a claim? They must realise they get found out quite quickly...

We need to wait and see how this unfolds, I think....

And we seem to be getting calls for gun controls again... Sadly, it very much looks that in this particular case no amount of control would have made any difference.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

Islamic State are sticking to their story, not calling the killer "Abu Abd Abdulbar al-Ameriki". Jihad Watch comments
The Islamic State is not backing off from its claim of responsibility for the Las Vegas massacre. They don’t seem to be afraid that Stephen Paddock will turn out to be a white supremacist neo-Nazi or some such. They don’t seem to be worried about being exposed as grandiose liars. They’re doubling down.
Incidentally, CBS reports that the millionaire gambler Paddock's father was a notorious bank-robber who escaped from jail.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

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IS continue to insist
Islamic State claims Paddock made “careful monitoring of the Crusader gatherings in the city of Las Vegas”

OCTOBER 3, 2017 7:34 AM BY ROBERT SPENCER 20 COMMENTS

“…he became a martyr As [sic] Allah and His Messenger and the believers believe, but most people do not know.”

Indeed. Most people believe the Islamic State is lying in claiming any connection to this, and that Paddock was not a convert to Islam. But ISIS continues to claim the attack anyway, and does not have a history of claiming credit for attacks for which they were not responsible. Maybe they’ve started doing so now. Maybe not.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/10/isla ... -las-vegas
More on only limited false claiming by IS here
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/268037/ ... rt-spencer
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by manfred »

Is there a website actually connected to IS that makes this claim?

There is what seems to be a a screen shot on the page you linked. In this screen shot, it is claimed that the perpetrator was and IS operative and even had a Muslim name, but unfortunately the source of this picture is not given, and the screen shot itself is hosted on Jihad watch's server.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

I suspect the screen shot is from a twitter. It has the same IS logo at the top and the same format as a twitter screenshot (in Arabic that time) in a JW post about an earlier claim that he was killing for Islamic State.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/10/isis ... al-ameriki
However, that twit refers to him as “Abu Abd Abdulbar al-Ameriki” whereas the new one says "Abu Abd El Bar".
Perhaps it's as well there are no links - anyone following them might be accused of supporting terrorism!
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

Politifact (a Facebook collaborator) says there is a lot of fake news surrounding the shooter. It dismisses claims of Muslim involvement, saying that they come from a Birther conspiracy theorist.
Root subsequently touted reports that ISIS had claimed responsibility for the attack, saying that the shooter had recently converted to Islam. But the statement provided no evidence, and terrorism experts expressed skepticism about ISIS’ claim.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -massacre/
However, it neglects to mention that these "touted reports" come from the Daily Mail and include part of the Arabic screenshot. Not the most trusty source, but not so easily dismissed as if they'd just been plucked from antisocial media by Root. I'd have thought, in fact, just the thing for these "investigators" to get their teeth into.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... oting.html
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

Fernando wrote:Perhaps it's as well there are no links - anyone following them might be accused of supporting terrorism!
Many a true word spoken in jest - I hadn't seen this:
Amber Rudd: viewers of online terrorist material face 15 years in jail

“I want to make sure those who view despicable terrorist content online, including jihadi websites, far-right propaganda and bomb-making instructions, face the full force of the law,” said Rudd. “There is currently a gap in the law around material [that] is viewed or streamed from the internet without being permanently downloaded.

“This is an increasingly common means by which material is accessed online for criminal purposes and is a particularly prevalent means of viewing extremist material such as videos and web pages,” added the home secretary.
Would you rely on any recent administration to determine what was extremist or not, in their efforts to find anti-Muslim "extremists" be even-handed? Especially an administration that banned Robert Spencer from the country?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... rs-in-jail
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

Three more postings on Jihad Watch.
Islamic State issues new video claiming Las Vegas massacre is revenge for US attacks on their caliphate

OCTOBER 4, 2017 10:36 AM BY ROBERT SPENCER
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/10/isla ... -caliphate
ISIS hails Las Vegas shooter as “lion of tawhid”

OCTOBER 4, 2017 10:51 AM BY ROBERT SPENCER
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/10/isis ... -of-tawhid
And one not about a Islamic State claim
Las Vegas sheriff on shooter: “Did this person get radicalized unbeknownst to us?”

OCTOBER 4, 2017 1:35 PM BY ROBERT SPENCER
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/10/las- ... wnst-to-us
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:Is there a website actually connected to IS that makes this claim?

There is what seems to be a a screen shot on the page you linked. In this screen shot, it is claimed that the perpetrator was and IS operative and even had a Muslim name, but unfortunately the source of this picture is not given, and the screen shot itself is hosted on Jihad watch's server.
The late president Zulfikar Ali Bhutto's corpse was examined by the Pakistani military after his execution to find out whether or not he was circumcised.Bhutto apparently had some Hindu lineage from the side of his grandparents it seems.So circumcision is to Muslims what baptism is to Christians.So everything will be clear if some neutral party is allowed to know whether or not this mass murderer was circumcised or not.Of course I have also read that even Christians in U.S get themselves circumcised for supposed health benefits.Then we may know whether or not his supposed recent conversion did indeed happen if he was circumcised recently and also if he happened not to be a born-Jew.

Perhaps that will help reveal the religious identity of the mass murderer and whether what ISIS claims about him being a recent muslim convert is really true or not.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

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You mean people should check if he was circumcised? Slight problem... You can convert to Islam first had do the circumcision later. Also, in the US the majority of men are circumcised anyway (about 80%)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/circumcisi ... tudy-says/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is not related to religion for the most part, but for hygiene and health reasons.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

Islamic State are still claiming responsibility, now in their Al-Naba newsletter.
https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2 ... onths-ago/
via Jihadwatch
They certainly are persistent and of course they are playing on the universal reluctance to call a terrorist an Islamist, if nothing else.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

idesigner1
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by idesigner1 »

DearNS,

Confirmation of circumcision won't solve the issue.

In US starting from early 50s lot many white Christians children were circumcised by doctors in hospital after the birth. Some implicate Jews doctors of East coast to make Christians Jews! Medical community touted cleanliness reason to chop penus of new born. Many think this procedure gave some extra revenue to hungry unscrupulous doctors. In those days it costed extra $ 100. Any way great many Christians babies are now circumcised in US. Beside Christians Jew babies are circumcised asjewish ceremony. Chances are good that this killer Mr. Paddock was circumcised.

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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Nosuperstition »

idesigner1 wrote:DearNS,

Confirmation of circumcision won't solve the issue.

In US starting from early 50s lot many white Christians children were circumcised by doctors in hospital after the birth. Some implicate Jews doctors of East coast to make Christians Jews! Medical community touted cleanliness reason to chop penus of new born. Many think this procedure gave some extra revenue to hungry unscrupulous doctors. In those days it costed extra $ 100. Any way great many Christians babies are now circumcised in US. Beside Christians Jew babies are circumcised asjewish ceremony. Chances are good that this killer Mr. Paddock was circumcised.
If one finds out from his wify/ex-wify/ex-wifeys/girl friend/girl friends/ex-girlfrieds whether or not he was previously circumcised,to an extent it may be helpful in that if he was not previously circumcised he is neither a Jew nor a Muslim in his erstwhile pre-converted religion.Of course if he was previously also circumcised,it is of no use in trying to identify his present or recently converted religion.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

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Last edited by idesigner1 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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manfred
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

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The general take by Muslims is summed up in this poster appearing on facebook and also in printed version in mosques.

The ever victimised Muslims and the despicable racist whites ...

Image
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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:The general take by Muslims is summed up in this poster appearing on facebook and also in printed version in mosques.

The ever victimised Muslims and the despicable racist whites ...
What is this - someone not got the message, or Islamic State with schizophrenia? Or just wanting its halal cake and eating it?
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

idesigner1
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by idesigner1 »

Here tempted to be Devil's advocate.
Las Vegas killing is second biggest mass murder in US after 9/11.

If there was airline tragedy US will be talking about all kind of safety issue, banning Muslims etc. from flying. :help:

If there was no guns used but just IED device , they all will be talking about banning some chemicals But he used guns and hence can't talk even about banning chemicals which can blow up whole block. :yuk:

But here whole culture has gone crazy and refuse to talk about guns!What a guy was doing having 40 semi and automatic guns and explosive material to blow up two towers! Subject is taboo. They have a law not to do any kind of research which can dilute gun rights.Car manufacturers can be sued, Air line can be sued but not NRA or gun manufacturers. Well second is more important than first!

Beside their gun rights here some white rights , white previlages or some special rights for f.cked up poor southern whites is involved. All under the name of NRA. Second Amendments. Look how the guy was described bu newspapers. Lots of understanding for him! Quiet, smart, good investor, helped his family and what not!! :cool:

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Fernando
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

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idesigner1 wrote:Look how the guy was described bu newspapers. Lots of understanding for him! Quiet, smart, good investor, helped his family and what not!! :cool:
This is quite usual when "lone wolves" suddenly come out of the woodwork. It's not much different from not speaking ill of the dead - someone killed in a murder or accident is always praised, unless they're a known baddie, however unpopular they might have been among people who knew them.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

idesigner1
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Re: And Las Vegas? Surely not?

Post by idesigner1 »

Fernando wrote:
idesigner1 wrote:Look how the guy was described bu newspapers. Lots of understanding for him! Quiet, smart, good investor, helped his family and what not!! :cool:
This is quite usual when "lone wolves" suddenly come out of the woodwork. It's not much different from not speaking ill of the dead - someone killed in a murder or accident is always praised, unless they're a known baddie, however unpopular they might have been among people who knew them.
Depends who came out of wood work!

If it's alien, Mexican, Afghan etc. different standard are used. Although I have to appreciate their consistency even if son of Osama kills thousands with automatic legal weapons on US soil near some kindergarten , they don't blame guns!! Ideology kills not guns! They all lack common sense and worship destructive ideology! How can we trust them to fight Islam! To them their 2nd Amendment is Koran!

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