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Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic Group

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:47 am
by pelihat
Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic Groups

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The recent demand of a group (islamic group) pushing for the demolition of a statue of war god Kongco Kwan Sing Tee Koen at the Kwan Sing Bio Chinese temple in Tuban, East Java, has provoked criticism.

The 30.4-meter statue, which cost Rp 2.5 billion (US$187,786) to construct, looks out onto Java’s northern sea and has reportedly been a great source of support for Tuban’s fishing communities and residents living around the temple.

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The Kwan Sing Bio Chinese temple had existed without issue in the city of Tuban for generations, but the Muslim locals could not stand a 30-metre statue recently erected there.

The brightly coloured statue of a Chinese god is thought to be the highest in South-East Asia and was difficult to cover even with the large white sheeting it now hides under.

Islamic groups are demanding the statue be destroyed because it does not reflect the nationalism of Indonesia and is a betrayal of Indonesian identity.

The Muslim protestors also say the statue does not reflect the official religion of Indonesians.

Tuban's deputy police chief, Fadly Samad, said the statue was covered to maintain security and order.

"I coordinated with the temple to calm the situation down, not because of pressures from any group but to maintain security," he said.

There is concern among the Indonesian Chinese community about growing discrimination, fuelled in part by the blasphemy charges laid against the Christian former governor Basuki Tjahja Purnama, who is also known as Ahok.

Ahok is serving a two-year prison sentence for insulting the Koran in a case that has been linked to growing Islamic conservatism across the nation.

It was unclear if the $250,000 statue would be knocked down.

Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim nation.

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Klenteng = a temple for Buddhists

Source :
__hxxp://www.bbc.com/indonesia/trensosial-40790781
__hxxp://www.portal-islam.id/2017/08/istana-mulai-ancam-pihak-yang.html
__hxxp://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/chinese-statue-covered-up-in-indonesian-city/8796404

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:22 am
by manfred
There are not many like that in Java (in fact I cannot remember any), is that the only one?... but there are quite a few in Bali. You are greeted by two similar to that when you drive from the airport towards Denpasar, in consecutive round abouts. In the Denpasar you can also find them usually at the outskirts though.

There are Muslims in Bali too, but they seem to not complain too much. They even say little about the Nyepi day (a Balinese Hindu quiet day, when you much stay inside your house, and almost everything is closed, even the airport.)

The reason for this is quite simple: in Java Muslims are a large majority, in Bali they are a minority.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:25 am
by pelihat
Yes, right. In Bali, muslim is minority. When they are minority they are safe. But, when they are become a majority they will be a threat for the other.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:14 am
by idesigner1
If I am not wrong, it took Jave less than 100 years too make Hinduism extinct!

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:25 pm
by manfred
With the arrival of Islam in Java, idesigner1, many Hindu people fled from Java and settled on the much smaller island to the East, Bali. The Hinduism you find there is not the same as in India, but that was the variety you found in Java before Islam. To this day many Hindu people in Bali do not like Javanese people to come and live in Bali, because most are Muslim, and also because many of the "new arrivals" get into trouble with the law. For example, there was until recently a veritable epidemic of motorcycle and car theft in Bali, with most disappearing in Java. Now you find if you travel between the islands using a private vehicle, you will almost always be subject to police checks.

On the other side of Bali lies Lombok, less touched by tourism, and also mostly Muslim, and would you believe it they have a professional association for thieves there, and another for beggars, or so I was told by people in Bali...But you can get amazing salted duck eggs there.

The little island of Bali is quite different from the rest of Indonesia, and it is effectively the last remnant of the old culture, before Islam arrived.

One thing that is different to many other places where Islam became dominant: In Java many artefacts and ancient Buddhist or Hindu temples are still standing, and there is a sort of uneasy peace between Muslims and other people, most of the time. But if you not a Muslim, you better know your place.

Some things I guess rarely change: Jakarta had a Christian-Chinese mayor for a while who by many accounts was very good at his job, and specially dedicated to fighting corruption (something that is quite shocking in Indonesia). He was removed from office and imprisoned for "insulting Islam"... I can't remember the exact details, but he complained during an election campaign that his opponent suggested it was against Islam to vote for a Christian. That was his crime, as far as I know.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:17 pm
by idesigner1
Thanks Manfred for enlightening me about Indonesia.

Two years ago I visited Bali and observed Hindu practices there. Big difference I found was the egg off reigns to gods ! Ofcourse they worship almost all major gods but to me it loos like it's Hinduism of south India which went there in 9th century. I found people mostly friendly but strict about dress code in temple, in south India they are still strict about it. Unfortunately Bali Hindus still hang on to their caste system minus untouchability.

I heard in Java there was large scale conversion to Islam once a Gajpati dynasty became Muslims and traders became Muslims to get shipping benefits as Arabs were controlling Sea. The whole conversion must be based on deception , fear and lots of social pressures. It didn't happen in few years.Some very die hard Hindus must have migrated to Bali increasing population of Hindus in Bali Still I have to appreciate Indonesia to let Hinduism exist there.But the whole place is under lots of pressure with advent of Wahabism.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:07 pm
by Nosuperstition
idesigner1 wrote:Unfortunately Bali Hindus still hang on to their caste system minus untouchability.


Untouchability based on occupations considered unclean such as scavenging, butchery and tannery were also said to exist in pre-Industrial Japan.However whether it was given theological sanction based on the concept of ritual purity considering human beings being affected due to negative tendencies of unclean surroundings and animal butchery existed or not is something I do not know.

manfred wrote: The Hinduism you find there is not the same as in India, but that was the variety you found in Java before Islam.


It is said that Hinduism practiced in Bali is Tantrika Hinduism with worship of Siva and Durga in Tantric rituals which was also practiced in many part of India prior to Adi Sankaracharya.This Guru propounded Vedanta and as a result worship of the deities Siva and Durga in the subcontinent is considered as Vedanta worship which is based on stress on veggism to a large extent.Now since Tantrik rituals entail animal sacrifices on a large scale,untouchability might not have become predominent in Bali.A person of the old forum said that in Indian Hinduism,behind the sophisticated veneer of Vedanta there is an ocean of hypocrisy.Perhaps he was referring to this practice of untouchability.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:38 pm
by manfred
Bali Hindus are generally NOT vegetarian, they will all kinds of meat, including pork and even sometimes snakes and various types of insects, most will even eat beef, except some of the Brahma. The most popular type of meat is pork. Also alcoholic drink is common, tuak (a type of palm wine, about as strong as beer, maybe a bit more) and there is also arak, a kind of brandy made from tuak, which varies in strength and is not regulated, but is generally a head banger... (not to be confused with the "arak" from parts of India and Sri Lanka, which is much milder. But tuak is not unlike the Indian/Sri Lankan "toddy", but it has a longer shelf like, don't ask how they do that, I have no idea...)

The cast system is not prominent there, except in some rural villages. Your status in society nowadays is defined more by your occupation or your wealth, but not exclusively. But your can find remnants of castes in modern society: In the Indonesian language there are quite a few words for "you", in various levels of politeness. People are sometimes awkward about meeting strangers because they do not know which is the correct form of address. More recently, this is overcome with a more or less neutral, catch-all cases word for "You" ("anda") but people will want to invariably find what they see the "proper" address for each person. That is why, when you meet an Indonesian for the first time, he or she often comes across as rather nosey... they simply want to gather information about you so that they know the "proper" way to talk to you.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:49 pm
by Nosuperstition
manfred wrote:Bali Hindus are generally NOT vegetarian, they will all kinds of meat, including pork and even sometimes snakes and various types of insects, most will even eat beef, except some of the Brahma. The most popular type of meat is pork. Also alcoholic drink is common, tuak (a type of palm wine, about as strong as beer, maybe a bit more) and there is also arak, a kind of brandy made from tuak, which varies in strength and is not regulated, but is generally a head banger... (not to be confused with the "arak" from parts of India and Sri Lanka, which is much milder. But tuak is not unlike the Indian/Sri Lankan "toddy", but it has a longer shelf like, don't ask how they do that, I have no idea...)

The cast system is not prominent there, except in some rural villages. Your status in society nowadays is defined more by your occupation or your wealth, but not exclusively. But your can find remnants of castes in modern society: In the Indonesian language there are quite a few words for "you", in various levels of politeness. People are sometimes awkward about meeting strangers because they do not know which is the correct form of address. More recently, this is overcome with a more or less neutral, catch-all cases word for "You" ("anda") but people will want to invariably find what they see the "proper" address for each person. That is why, when you meet an Indonesian for the first time, he or she often comes across as rather nosey... they simply want to gather information about you so that they know the "proper" way to talk to you.


Yes but then put them in their place is a phrase not new to English either.Of course this also is a tu quo que. Yohan said that he loved the colorful and exotic dance of Bali's temple dancers which is somewhat positive for him.He also mentioned that the Balinese have 3 tiered caste system as opposed to subcontinental Hinduism's 5 tiered caste system.Balinese also literally sacrifice animals in foundation sacrifices while subcontinental Hindus offer only symbolic sacrifice of red rice grains in the foundation laying ceremony for a building.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:52 pm
by idesigner1
manfred wrote:Bali Hindus are generally NOT vegetarian, they will all kinds of meat, including pork and even sometimes snakes and various types of insects, most will even eat beef, except some of the Brahma. The most popular type of meat is pork. Also alcoholic drink is common, tuak (a type of palm wine, about as strong as beer, maybe a bit more) and there is also arak, a kind of brandy made from tuak, which varies in strength and is not regulated, but is generally a head banger... (not to be confused with the "arak" from parts of India and Sri Lanka, which is much milder. But tuak is not unlike the Indian/Sri Lankan "toddy", but it has a longer shelf like, don't ask how they do that, I have no idea...)

The cast system is not prominent there, except in some rural villages. Your status in society nowadays is defined more by your occupation or your wealth, but not exclusively. But your can find remnants of castes in modern society: In the Indonesian language there are quite a few words for "you", in various levels of politeness. People are sometimes awkward about meeting strangers because they do not know which is the correct form of address. More recently, this is overcome with a more or less neutral, catch-all cases word for "You" ("anda") but people will want to invariably find what they see the "proper" address for each person. That is why, when you meet an Indonesian for the first time, he or she often comes across as rather nosey... they simply want to gather information about you so that they know the "proper" way to talk to you.


Tantric practices of Hinduism is pretty ancient .It was not as discredited as it is today. Many secret chants and interpretation was mystical an misunderstood by common man. After advent of Budhhism and credo of nonviolence, tantric practices didn't remain main stream and was mostly carried on in secrecy. Till this date there are tantric practitioners in India.

Re: Statue of God in Tuban, Indonesia Protested by Islamic G

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:48 pm
by Nosuperstition
idesigner1 wrote:Tantric practices of Hinduism is pretty ancient .It was not as discredited as it is today. Many secret chants and interpretation was mystical an misunderstood by common man. After advent of Budhhism and credo of nonviolence, tantric practices didn't remain main stream and was mostly carried on in secrecy. [b]Till this date there are tantric practitioners in India[/b].


Yes right in my childhood,I heard about Tantric sacrifices done to propiate the supernatural forces that supposedly opposed construction of things such as bridges and theatres in their areas of power by causing their premature collapse during construction.However they are held in secrecy without much fanfare as did happen in times when the Upanishads were penned down.

When I was in my 7th standard,a close Brahmin friend of mine called Anoop brought me some old Chandamama children's story books which belonged to the generation of his fathers etc.He knew that I was a lot interested in stories and that is the reason why he brought them to me.


viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1803&p=211114&hilit=Anoop#p211114

Now in those series of books,there occurs a verbal spat between the two wives of Shiva namely Parvati/Durga,the goddess of power and Ganga,the goddess of water.In that story,Ganga accuses Parvati as being a deity without pity and compassion as she accepts sacrifices.Shows that at the time when that story was penned down,sacrifices were still offered in the subcontinent considering Durga as Tantrika Durga.It also shows that people of those times themselves had the idea that empathy and compassion to animals will not be inculcated if people happen to witness public sacrifices with much fanfare.It is also worth noting that while most animal sacrifices have ceased outside most Durga temples under the eye of the Brahmins,the temples that have not come under their control occassionally will be in news for animal sacrifices.