Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

frankie
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Re: Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

Post by frankie »

Garudaman wrote:
manfred wrote:The female circumcision, as practised in you home country, not only generally removes the entire clitoris, but also tightens the vagina by cutting the labia on opposite sides and then stitching them together at that point, so that they grow together.
then you got wrong information, in my country the traditional practice of the female circumcision is by smearing turmeric on the clitoris, & according to MUI : https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khitan_pada_wanita" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fatwa MUI (Majelis Ulama Indonesia) menyatakan bahwa sunat perempuan boleh dilakukan asal tidak menyimpang. MUI menegaskan batasan atau tata cara khitan perempuan seusia dengan ketentuan syariah, yaitu khitan perempuan dilakukan cukup dengan hanya menghilangkan selaput (jaldah atau praeputium atau kulup) yang menutupi klitoris; dan khitan perempuan tidak boleh dilakukan secara berlebihan, seperti memotong atau melukai klitoris (insisi dan eksisi).
frankie wrote:It is only Islamic
that's wrong, Islamic female-circumcision is Clitoral-Hood Removal, not FGM!
frankie wrote:Removing the clitoral hood requires the precision of an experience surgeon, it cannot be done correctly by some religiously motivated lay person, because they are as ignorant as the scriptures they read, which tell them that this practice is necessary.
why not? ancient people have strong sense, & their scripture said clitoral-hood removal!
piscohot wrote:How does removing the clitoris of a woman improve the hygience/cleanliness of a woman?
because its not removing clitoris, but removing clitoral hood!
Do you think that Allah has made a mistake when creating the human body that his imperfection must be corrected by male and female circumcision?
its not imperfection but its indeed created to be corrected (so human have thing to be corrected) just as hair & nail!

Garudaman:
why not? ancient people have strong sense, & their scripture said clitoral-hood removal!
Which ancient peoples scriptures teach to practice this,unless you can provide firm evidence, your claims remain meaningless.

If you had any understanding of the female body, you would know that FGM is not such a simple procedure, as in the case of a man.

Any trained health practioner will tell you that FGM is not connected to female hygiene, it is a totally unnecessary practice, designed only to keep women under the control of men.

The World Health Organization (WHO) insists that there aren’t any hygiene or health reasons to support FGM and insist that it’s a form of discrimination against women and an act of violence.

http://www.rainbo.org/fgm---female-genital-mutilation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Garudaman
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Re: Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

Post by Garudaman »

read again the hadith that said circumcision is hygiene/cleanliness practice, not mutilation practice (since its cant be make face brighter) :

Umm Atiyyah Al-Ansariyyah reported: “A woman used to perform circumcision in Madinah. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband” (Dawud 41:5251); or Cut off only the foreskin [outer fold of the skin over the clitoris, the prepuce], but do not cut off deeply [the clitoris itself], for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband” (At-Tabarani, Vol. 2, Hadith 722).
frankie
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Re: Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

Post by frankie »

Garudaman wrote:read again the hadith that said circumcision is hygiene/cleanliness practice, not mutilation practice (since its cant be make face brighter) :

Umm Atiyyah Al-Ansariyyah reported: “A woman used to perform circumcision in Madinah. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband” (Dawud 41:5251); or Cut off only the foreskin [outer fold of the skin over the clitoris, the prepuce], but do not cut off deeply [the clitoris itself], for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband” (At-Tabarani, Vol. 2, Hadith 722).
Garudaman:


There is nothing in either of these hadiths which indicate this procedure is any way hygienic,because it isn't.

"Brighter for the face of the girl" is not specific enough to render its meaning hygienic, it is as in all things Islamic, totally ambiguous, and therefore could mean any manner of things.
Cut off only the foreskin [outer fold of the skin over the clitoris, the prepuce], but do not cut off deeply [the clitoris itself],
This procedure cannot be performed without the use of a general anaesthetic, because the body would have to be absolutely still, in order to perform such a delicate operation, it needs absolute precision to be done correctly, which is an impossibility when a person is fully conscious, as the pain alone will not allow them to remain motionless.
piscohot
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Re: Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

Post by piscohot »

Garudaman wrote:
Do you think that Allah has made a mistake when creating the human body that his imperfection must be corrected by male and female circumcision?
its not imperfection but its indeed created to be corrected (so human have thing to be corrected) just as hair & nail!
Allah created foreskins and clitoris/hood in order for humans to correct it by cutting it off?
And where in the quran did Allah say that men and women have to correct themselves by circumcision?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."
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Fernando
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Re: Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

Post by Fernando »

frankie wrote:Which ancient peoples scriptures teach to practice this,unless you can provide firm evidence, your claims remain meaningless.
Garudaman can't tell you that, because he would have to admit that these "ancient people" were in fact the pre-Islamic polytheistic Arabs.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah
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Fernando
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Re: Detroit Doctor accused of genital mutilation on girls.

Post by Fernando »

The defence has an interesting excuse for this mutilation. One which blows the usual apologetic arguments out of the water. He's innocent, it seems, because it's "a religious right". (I'm not sure that they don't really mean "rite", what with today's sub-editing.) Oh, and they're referring to "an Islamic sect". Nothing to do with Islam, still?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 48736.html
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah
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