Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

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Free
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Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Free »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... imals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hooray! Let's hope the rest of Europe follows, like the domino effect. As expected, muslims and jews are outraged and appealing against the vote as an infringement on their religious freedoms. Why can't they realise this has nothing to do with them and their religious freedom but everything to do with the animal and its welfare?? Civilisation has evolved. We no longer perform surgery on a conscious person, with no anaesthesia or pain relief, we have developed humane methods to cut into a person's body whilst they are unconscious, with no pain felt, and upon waking (which is more than you can say for the animal) their pain management will be as thorough as possible. I completely agree with Marianne Thieme when she says..."Religious freedom cannot be unlimited... religious freedom stops where human or animal suffering begins." Go Netherlands :*)
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StrongLove
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by StrongLove »

More evidence that western countries are becoming aware of islams dehumanizing influence.
" The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

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byteresistor
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by byteresistor »

Religious freedom doesn't mean you get a free pass at doing everything your religion asks for. You only get religious freedom to do things which do not infringe the law of the land.
crazymonkie_
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by crazymonkie_ »

Sort of like how folks who are seriously into Voodoo or Santeria (same diff) are not allowed legally to sacrifice animals in most locations. It might even be all, outside of maybe some spots of Louisiana.
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Marie
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Marie »

Hurray

Muslims don't like this law they can go live in some Islamic hell-hole. There is no need for an animal to suffer like that.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Multiple »

A good start perhaps sanity is rearing its head at last.
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Sten
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Sten »

Finally one country stands up to barbaric religious demands. Hopefully this will create a trend that sends a strong message.
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CuteCoot
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by CuteCoot »

Here is another view: The Truth about Kosher Slaughter. I don't necessarily support this view, as I admit I don't know much about this issue. However, maybe some objective research on these matters might be helpful.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by pr126 »

The Jews do not demand that everybody should eat kosher. Their product is limited to certain stores, clearly marked and non Jews have a choice.

With halal the choice is removed as food is not marked and supermarkets, institutions (schools, hospitals, prisons etc) are supplied with halal meat without the consumers knowledge or consent.
This is clearly coercion to adopt Muslim religious customs to non Muslims. it is cultural imperialism.

That is the difference between kosher and halal.
I do not approve of kosher slaughter. But where observing Jews who eat kosher may number just a million world wide, Muslims are 1.5 billion.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by CuteCoot »

pr126 wrote:That is the difference between kosher and halal.
Maybe so, but the Netherlands ban makes no such distinction. Jews find the ban chilling as a similar ban back in the late 1930s was a prelude to the excesses of the holocaust. They remember this and are worried.
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Sten
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Sten »

CuteCoot wrote:
pr126 wrote:That is the difference between kosher and halal.
Maybe so, but the Netherlands ban makes no such distinction. Jews find the ban chilling as a similar ban back in the late 1930s was a prelude to the excesses of the holocaust. They remember this and are worried.
It's not comparable and it's pretty offensive for them to make that suggestion. What a revolting and totally self-serving thing to insinuate. The netherlands are not a Jewish or Muslim country, and if they want to ban inhumane slaughter of their cattle then that is their right. It is not discrimination to demand a higher standard of treatment for meat animals. The link you posted is little more than religious propaganda - of course Jews will claim that Kosher slaughter is more humane. If you'll notice, religious people have a habit of lying through their teeth when it suits their agenda. Anyone who has ever been cut badly with a knife will know that it hurts like buggery - its a special kind of frightening pain that takes your breath away and leaves you feeling nauseated. why should it be any different for an animal held in "comfortable restraints"?

In order to access the main throat artery, a deep cut must be made through skin, muscle, and cartilege. Anyone who claims that this is painless is either being deliberately dishonest, or has never experienced a serious laceration wound before. Make no mistake about it, people who have witnessed this type of slaughter yet still claim Kosher and Halal is humane are lying. It is a disgusting and widespread lie that makes my stomach turn in anger every time I hear it.



This is a standard Kosher slaughter. Don't chicken out, watch the video if you are honestly interested in the truth about Kosher. It is not a small incision like the proponents of Kosher would have you believe, it is a gigantic and horrific slashing wound that obviously causes massive pain and panic to the animal as it dies, gargling in its own blood. Does it look painless to you? Can you watch that video and say, with a straight face, that this method of slaughter is more humane than a pneumatic bolt to the animal's brain? Be totally honest with yourself.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by CuteCoot »

I wrote: Jews find the ban chilling as a similar ban back in the late 1930s was a prelude to the excesses of the holocaust. They remember this and are worried.

You wrote: It's not comparable and it's pretty offensive for them to make that suggestion. What a revolting and totally self-serving thing to insinuate.

One source for the Jewish view on this is here: Jewish condemn Dutch animal slaughter laws as 'Nazi persecution'. I'm not myself acquainted with the details of the case. Are you? Can you give some more historical background to your claim that "it's not comparable"?
Sten wrote:Can you watch that video and say, with a straight face, that this method of slaughter is more humane than a pneumatic bolt to the animal's brain? Be totally honest with yourself.
I'm not a Jew so kosher slaughter, for me, is simply horrid. In any case, the video is not scientific evidence. It is itself a kind of "religious" or ideological propaganda.

I don't have strong feelings either way. As I wrote in my post with the link, all I'm saying is that a little more objectivity and scientific study would be useful here. As it happens, we know very little about pain. Obviously we have intimate first-hand experience of it but we know very little about it in the scientific sense. And we know even less about pain in other species besides ourselves.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Sten »

CuteCoot wrote:I wrote: Jews find the ban chilling as a similar ban back in the late 1930s was a prelude to the excesses of the holocaust. They remember this and are worried.

You wrote: It's not comparable and it's pretty offensive for them to make that suggestion. What a revolting and totally self-serving thing to insinuate.

One source for the Jewish view on this is here: Jewish condemn Dutch animal slaughter laws as 'Nazi persecution'. I'm not myself acquainted with the details of the case. Are you? Can you give some more historical background to your claim that "it's not comparable"?
I don't need historical background. I can say that it is not comparable because I know for a fact that the Netherlands is not also planning to start rounding up Jews and putting them in Ghettos, or murdering them in their millions, or legally discriminating against Jews in any way shape or form. This is a law based on what is the right thing to do, moving towards more humane methods of slaughter and outlawing the barbaric methods is how society should be progressing. Calling it "Nazi persecution" is almost hate speech IMO, it's a disgusting thing to say and the people who said it should be ashamed of themselves. They should know better than anyone not to cheapen the enormity of the holocaust by using it as a dishonest tool to score political points.
CuteCoot wrote:I'm not a Jew so kosher slaughter, for me, is simply horrid. In any case, the video is not scientific evidence. It is itself a kind of "religious" or ideological propaganda.

I don't have strong feelings either way. As I wrote in my post with the link, all I'm saying is that a little more objectivity and scientific study would be useful here. As it happens, we know very little about pain. Obviously we have intimate first-hand experience of it but we know very little about it in the scientific sense. And we know even less about pain in other species besides ourselves.
The link you posted wasn't a scientific study either, it was just the subjective observations of some people whose opinion was that it doesn't cause the animal any pain. The animal doesn't move during the procedure because it is restrained. The video I posted is not ideological propaganda, it is from a Jewish source and is a standard example of slaughering a cow Kosher style. It is no different from any other video depicting industrial activity, it's not biased one way or the other.

Besides, we don't need a scientific study to tell us that this method causes the animal pain, all we need is common sense. The cow is a mammal like we are, it has the same basic brain chemistry and posesses the same type of pain receptors. The pain you feel when you cut yourself is the same type of pain a cow would feel. Did you watch the video? Can you tell me with a straight face, that the people who claim it is painless are not lying? Please, if you don't answer anything else about my post, answer that one question.
Last edited by Sten on Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Multiple
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Multiple »

Sten wrote:
CuteCoot wrote:I wrote: Jews find the ban chilling as a similar ban back in the late 1930s was a prelude to the excesses of the holocaust. They remember this and are worried.

You wrote: It's not comparable and it's pretty offensive for them to make that suggestion. What a revolting and totally self-serving thing to insinuate.

One source for the Jewish view on this is here: Jewish condemn Dutch animal slaughter laws as 'Nazi persecution'. I'm not myself acquainted with the details of the case. Are you? Can you give some more historical background to your claim that "it's not comparable"?
I don't need historical background. I can say that it is not comparable because I know for a fact that the Netherlands is not also planning to start rounding up Jews and putting them in Ghettos, or murdering them in their millions, or legally discriminating against Jews in any way shape or form. This is a law based on what is the right thing to do, moving towards more humane methods of slaughter and outlawing the barbaric methods is how society should be progressing. Calling it "Nazi persecution" is almost hate speech IMO, it's a disgusting thing to say and the people who said it should be ashamed of themselves. They should know better than anyone not to cheapen the enormity of the holocaust by using it as a dishonest tool to score political points.
CuteCoot wrote:I'm not a Jew so kosher slaughter, for me, is simply horrid. In any case, the video is not scientific evidence. It is itself a kind of "religious" or ideological propaganda.

I don't have strong feelings either way. As I wrote in my post with the link, all I'm saying is that a little more objectivity and scientific study would be useful here. As it happens, we know very little about pain. Obviously we have intimate first-hand experience of it but we know very little about it in the scientific sense. And we know even less about pain in other species besides ourselves.
The link you posted wasn't a scientific study either, it was just the subjective observations of some people whose opinion was that it doesn't cause the animal any pain. The animal doesn't move during the procedure because it is restrained. The video I posted is not ideological propaganda, it is from a Jewish source and is a standard example of slaughering a cow Kosher style. It is no different from any other video depicting industrial activity, it's not biased one way or the other.

Besides, we don't need a scientific study to tell us that this method causes the animal pain, all we need is common sense. The cow is a mammal like we are, it has the same basic brain chemistry and posesses the same type of pain receptors. The pain you feel when you cut yourself is the same type of pain a cow would feel. Did you watch the video? Can you tell me with a straight face, that the people who claim it is painless are not lying?
Sten relax COOTY is a Mohammedan and she is just trying to stir the pot. We all know that Hitlers MOST willing helpers were the Mohammedans starting with the Mufti of Jerusalem and down to the Bosnia Mohammedan SS Divisions who were reknowned even amongst the SS themselves as the most evil vicious scum of the lot.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

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Multiple wrote:Sten relax COOTY is a Mohammedan and she is just trying to stir the pot. We all know that Hitlers MOST willing helpers were the Mohammedans starting with the Mufti of Jerusalem and down to the Bosnia Mohammedan SS Divisions who were reknowned even amongst the SS themselves as the most evil vicious scum of the lot.
You don't have to be so aggressive - she's not a Mohammadan and she's not trying to stir the pot, she's just someone who seems to be afraid of holding strong opinions against people's cherished cultural practices. She thinks that because people claim they can't live without some things, we have to keep indulging them. She is wrong, of course.

It's okay to condemn some things, without condemnation of barbarism society cannot progress. I've never seen Coot support injustice or violence, from what I gather she is a gentle person who doesn't like confrontation, she'd like everyone to live together in perfect harmony. But unfortunately confrontation is needed sometimes, we can't all be pacifists. Sometimes people are just wrong, and it's okay to confront them and tell them that what they are doing is wrong. That's what the Netherlands is attempting right now, and I think they are a greater country for it. Hooray for the Netherlands. :rock:
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

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Sten wrote:Can you tell me with a straight face, that the people who claim it is painless are not lying? Please, if you don't answer anything else about my post, answer that one question.
I don't think they're lying, no. They might be mistaken but I have no reason to believe they're lying.

And unlike you, I can understand the concerns of today's Jews regarding the comparability of the banning of this practice with the closing of Jewish abattoirs by the Nazis. I also respect the views of Daniel Pipes and he predicts - with sadness - that Europe will experience a persecution of Muslims comparable to the persecution of Jews. On some issues, like this one and perhaps also circumcision, the Jews will likely be carried along as well.

In fact, it is my view that the entire brutal persecution of Jews in Europe, dating from around 1000 CE, was fuelled by fear of Islam. Since the foreign Semites (the Arabs) couldn't be controlled, at least the vulnerable Jewish Semites nearby could be attacked. Europe was taking out its fear of Islam on its Jews.

So I do take this seriously.

Britain's Chief Rabbi is also speaking out. I may not agree that kosher slaughter is a "nice" way to kill animals but I respect his concerns about religious persecution.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by sum »

If I was to be slaughtered and given the choice of having my throat cut without first being stunned, or, a bullet through the brain, I would choose the bullet.

What would posters prefer?

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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

Post by Multiple »

Sten wrote:
Multiple wrote:Sten relax COOTY is a Mohammedan and she is just trying to stir the pot. We all know that Hitlers MOST willing helpers were the Mohammedans starting with the Mufti of Jerusalem and down to the Bosnia Mohammedan SS Divisions who were reknowned even amongst the SS themselves as the most evil vicious scum of the lot.
You don't have to be so aggressive - she's not a Mohammadan and she's not trying to stir the pot, she's just someone who seems to be afraid of holding strong opinions against people's cherished cultural practices. She thinks that because people claim they can't live without some things, we have to keep indulging them. She is wrong, of course.

It's okay to condemn some things, without condemnation of barbarism society cannot progress. I've never seen Coot support injustice or violence, from what I gather she is a gentle person who doesn't like confrontation, she'd like everyone to live together in perfect harmony. But unfortunately confrontation is needed sometimes, we can't all be pacifists. Sometimes people are just wrong, and it's okay to confront them and tell them that what they are doing is wrong. That's what the Netherlands is attempting right now, and I think they are a greater country for it. Hooray for the Netherlands. :rock:
Why is it Sten that when I think about you the words naive and gullible always spring to mind. COOTY wrote "In fact, it is my view that the entire brutal persecution of Jews in Europe, dating from around 1000 CE, was fuelled by fear of Islam. Since the foreign Semites (the Arabs) couldn't be controlled, at least the vulnerable Jewish Semites nearby could be attacked. Europe was taking out its fear of Islam on its Jews." But you keep telling yourself Cooty's not a Muslim Cooty's not a Muslim hey Sten. :roflmao:

Sten if COOTY isn't a Muslima she sure acts and TALKS like one. But even I have to admit her latest insanity 'The Jews were persecuted because the Europeans couldn't persecute the Mohammedans ' really takes the biscuit. Forget the fact that no Arab country even existed until the British founded them and that Britain and France controlled them for huge periods of time and Oh wasn't it Bosnian MOHAMMEDANS in the German SS and the Mohammedan MUFTI of Jerusalem consulting with Hitler and Mohammedans agitating about Jewish pre war immigration into the Holy Land.

Oh yes the Jews were persecuted because the Europeans couldn't persecute the Arabs hey COOTY well at least gullible naive Sten believes your Mohammedan BS. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

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Multiple wrote:Sten relax COOTY is a Mohammedan and she is just trying to stir the pot.
You're new here, so let me make it clear to you: CuteCoot has never posted anything here which would imply she's a mohammedan. You're overreacting. You might disagree with what she has said in this thread but still nothing in those statements imply anything of the sort you accuse her for.
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Re: Netherlands Bans Halal & Kosher Slaughter

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byteresistor wrote:You're new here, so let me make it clear to you: CuteCoot has never posted anything here which would imply she's a mohammedan. You're overreacting. You might disagree with what she has said in this thread but still nothing in those statements imply anything of the sort you accuse her for.
Wrong, he has been here longer than either one of us, just used different usernames.
gupsfu wrote:When someone uses the "taken out of context" argument without explaining what it's really supposed to mean, you know he's lying.
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