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Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby Ariel » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:01 pm

Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

The day Egyptians…feel you are against them, you will be wiped off the face of the Earth." — Dr. Wagdi Goneim

Islamic leaders continue to portray the popular protests against President Morsi and his recently passed Sharia-heavy constitution as products of Egypt's Christians. Recently, Muslim Brotherhood leader Safwat Hegazy said in an open rally, as captured on video:

A message to the church of Egypt, from an Egyptian Muslim: I tell the church — by Allah, and again, by Allah — if you conspire and unite with the remnants [opposition] to bring Morsi down, that will be another matter…. our red line is the legitimacy of Dr. Muhammad Morsi. Whoever splashes water on it, we will splash blood on him."

More recently, Dr. Wagdi Ghoneim — who earlier praised Allah for the death of the late Coptic Pope Shenouda, cursing him to hell and damnation on video — made another video, entitled, "A Notice and Warning to the Crusaders in Egypt," a reference to the nation's Copts, which he began by saying, "You are playing with fire in Egypt, I swear, the first people to be burned by the fire are you [Copts]." The video was made in the context of the Tahrir protests against Morsi: Islamic leaders, such as Hegazy and Ghoneim, seek to portray the Copts as dominant elements in those protests; according to them, no real Muslim would participate. Ghoneim even went on to say that most of the people at the protests were Copts, "and we know you hid your [wrist] crosses by lowering your sleeves."

The heart of Ghoneim's message was genocidal: "The day Egyptians — and I don't even mean the Muslim Brotherhood or Salafis, regular Egyptians — feel that you are against them, you will be wiped off the face of the earth. I'm warning you now: do not play with fire!"

Along with trying to incite Egypt's Muslims against the Copts, and threatening them with annihilation, Ghoneim made other telling assertions, including:

Addressing the Christians of Egypt as "Crusaders," once again showing Islam's simplistic, black-and-white vision, which clumps all Christians — of all nations, past and present, regardless of historical context and denomination — as one, in accordance with an Islamic tradition that states "All infidels are one religion."

Comparing Christian Copts to animals: "Respect yourselves and live with us and we will protect you... Why?... because Allah has forbidden me to be cruel to animals. I'm not trying to compare you to animals … but if I am not cruel to animals or plants, shall I be cruel to a soul created by Allah? You are an infidel in Allah's sight — and it is for him to judge you. However, when you live in my country, it is forbidden for me to be unjust to you — but that doesn't mean we are equal. No, oh no."

Telling Copts: "I want to remind you that Egypt is a Muslim country.... if you don't like the Muslim Sharia, you have eight countries that have a Cross on their flag [in Europe], so go to them. However, if you want to stay here in Egypt with us, know your place and be respectful. You already have all your rights — by Allah, even more than Muslims... No one investigates your homes, no one investigates your churches. In fact, in the past, the Islamic groups used to fake their IDs and put Christian names on them when they would go out for [jihadi] operations, so that when the police would catch them, they would see they are Christians and be left alone." Ghoneim misses the irony of what he says: Police know that Egyptian Christians are not going to engage in terror; Egyptian Muslims are suspect.

Saying, in mocking tones, towards the end: "What do you think — that America will protect you? Let's be very clear, America will not protect you. If so, it would have protected the Christians of Iraq when they were being butchered!" — a reference to the fact that, after the U.S. ousted Saddam Hussein, half of Iraq's Christian population has either been butchered or fled the nation, and all under U.S. auspices.

Claiming that the Copts are only four million while the Muslims are 85 million — even as Coptic Orthodox Church registries maintain that there are more than 15 million Copts, and most outside analysts say 10 million— and adding that Morsi was only being nice by saying, as he did during one of his speeches: "There are no minorities in Egypt." Ghoneim fails to explain, if Copts are so few — four million compared to 85 million — how could they be so influential, and flood the Tahrir protests with such large numbers?

Mocking new Coptic Pope Tawadros—not surprising considering his great hate for the former Pope—by claiming that the new Pope urged Copts to protest; that the new Pope wants to see Morsi and Sharia law fall, and by adding, "Is it not enough that you have all those monasteries?"

Raymond Ibrahim is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and an Associate Fellow at the Middle East Forum.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3518/ ... s-genocide
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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby pr126 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:28 pm

It is quite possible that the world will have no objection to that. it will be looking the other way. As usual.
However, when you live in my country, it is forbidden for me to be unjust to you — but that doesn't mean we are equal. No, oh no."
The Muslims are the invaders.
However, if you want to stay here in Egypt with us, know your place and be respectful.
Quran 9:29
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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby Ariel » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:19 am

pr126 wrote:The Muslims are the invaders.

So true PR. My thought too, and guess :huh: . This is our future too. In a couple of years, Muslims are going to tell us that Europe is from them, and if we want to stay there too, we have to know our place and be respectful.
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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby Jimi » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:29 am

This is Islam as I understand it. While I was reading it I was thinking to myself how can such a small minority cause such problems for the screamers. Same everywhere Muslims have the upper hand. But you never hear this in America. Islam is peace. And we don't want to be islamaphobic by saying anything bad about Islam like the religion says to make others feel subdued.
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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby Ariel » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:59 am

And here we have the so called moderate President Morsi who said in 2010 no to negotiations with "the Descendants of Apes and Pigs"

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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby Ariel » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:09 pm

Preacher alarms many in Egypt with calls for Islamist vice police

Many Egyptian viewers were horrified when preacher Hisham el-Ashry recently popped up on primetime television to say women must cover up for their own protection and advocated the introduction of religious police.

That an obscure preacher could get publicity for such views was seen as another example of the confused political scene in Egypt since the revolt that toppled Hosni Mubarak gave birth to a cacophony of feuding voices.

"I was once asked: If I came to power, would I let Christian women remain unveiled? And I said: If they want to get raped on the streets, then they can," Ashry told Nahar TV last week.

Introducing a Saudi-style anti-vice police force to enforce Islamic law was "not a bad thing", he said, and added: "In order for Egypt to become fully Islamic, alcohol must be banned and all women must be covered."

Few take Ashry, who admits he flew to the United States dreaming of a Western lifestyle and romance but instead found truth in preaching, seriously. But his views have stirred emotions.

With the economic downturn and rising food prices putting pressure on the government, moderate Muslims, Christians and others worry their new-found political freedom is at risk of being exploited by hardline Islamists bent on imposing their values on a society that has been traditionally moderate.

Watching a recent television interview in which Ashry expounded his ideas on women and sharia law, members of one family jumped to their feet in outrage.

"Look at this crazy man! Where do you think we live! In a jungle? Or are all men like you, animals, unable to control their instincts?" Mona Ahmed, 65, shouted at the television screen in her living room.

"If I see him annoying any unveiled woman on the street I would punch him in the face. Wake up, man, this is Egypt, not Saudi Arabia," she yelled as her children tried to console her.

Ahmed, like many women in Egypt, has chosen on her own to cover her hair with the Islamic headscarf.

Egypt's top Islamic institutions, such as al-Azhar, the highest authority in Sunni Islam, and Dar al Ifta, the central authority for issuing religious rulings, have long said religious practices should not be imposed on people.


Egypt's Grand Mufti, the country's most senior Islamic legal official, has dismissed the self-styled preacher's views.

"This sort of idiotic thinking is one that seeks to further destabilise what is already a tense situation," Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa said in a statement to Reuters.

"Egypt's religious scholars have long guided the people to act in ways that conform to their religious commitments, but have never thought this required any type of invasive policing."

The Muslim Brotherhood of President Mohamed Mursi, who was brought to power in an election last year, has also distanced itself, if somewhat cryptically.

"The case of promotion of virtue and prevention of vice is within the jurisdiction of the authorities and not individuals or groups," said Brotherhood spokesman Mahmoud Ghozlan. "It is not anyone's right to intervene."

Mursi has pledged not to impose Islamic codes of behaviour and to protect adherents of all religions equally. But he has also enacted a new constitution that has more Islamic references than its predecessor and that critics say fails to protect freedoms and the rights of Christians and other minorities.

Activists say although Mursi's camp is not keen on religious austerity, stronger condemnation is required at this sensitive time.

"As long as such actions are not seriously condemned by the officials in public speeches, it leaves room for radicals to freely act and impose things on people," said human rights activist Gamal Eid.

The image of Egypt's bearded leadership flanked by their fully veiled wives sends a powerful psychological message that may belie their official words, they say.

"Islamist officials need to take a clearer stand on their views about rights and freedoms and act strictly if those rights and freedoms were threatened."


Ashry left Egypt for New York in the 1990s, when the country was still firmly under Mubarak's rule, in search of a better life.

"I went there with a dream to get a blonde girl and a big car," he said in one of his televised interviews. "(But) I was advised on the plane to cherish my religion and not get taken by the USA or risk being spoiled and losing my faith."

His religious convictions grew stronger over the next 15 years in the United States, he said.

"I had, thanks to God, guided many Christians to Islam. I can't tell how many as I stopped counting when their number exceeded 100," he said.

It was when he was working at a men's clothing factory in New York that he became convinced that Egypt needed a Saudi-style anti-vice force.

"(My goal was) to make all Egyptians love it," he said.

A few find him inspiring.

"He advocates what I believe is right," said Ahmed Mahmoud, 18, in Cairo. "It is about time to enforce God's law in order to be rescued from all the corruption we live in."

Ashry is just one conservative influence among many. In the six months since Mursi came to power, preachers and vigilante groups have been flexing their muscles on the streets.

In July, a young man holding hands with his fiancé was stabbed to death in Suez, and in October, a face-veiled teacher cut the hair of two 12-year-old girls who were not wearing scarves. Just last month, an Islamist group in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula threatened to launch a campaign against cigarette smoking and drug use in the lawless desert region.

Radical Salafi figures called for Muslims not to greet Christians at Christmas, celebrated by Egypt's Copts on January 7. Christians make up about 10 percent of Egypt's 84 million population, which is majority Sunni-Muslim.

"Such comments scare us to death of course," said Christian activist Peter el-Naggar.

"But we don't think such people are right or will have any strong grassroots support. Egypt has always been home to moderate and tolerant Islam. By God's will it will remain so."

Those who rely on the tourism industry in Cairo and at the luxury beaches of the Red Sea are defiant and anxious at the same time.

"Only we can control ourselves," said taxi driver Waleed Mahmoud, 36. "No human being can force another to pray or beat them to pray. It doesn't work."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/0 ... MA20130109
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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby Nosuperstition » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:16 pm

Genocide is a very dirty word since what happened and what was supposed to happen to Jews during World War II.Hence the international community might not sit silently if ever a genocide were to be perpetrated on the Copts. Genocide in modern day is simply not tolerated and hence not a viable option for anyone.That is why I think a genocide against Copts is highly unlikely.It is just sort of belligerent posturing and sabre-rattling rather than really intending and initiating one.That is what I think so.
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Re: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt's Copts with Genocide

Postby time to wake up » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:45 pm

I hope you're right but our media's capacity for turning a blind eye, distorting events and obfuscating truth, consistently borders on perverted genius. For organisations designed to inform they constantly prove they are not fit for purpose, particularly where muslims are the cause of conflict. The silence is deafening

I see the BBC has installed a bomb proof news studio to thwart Islamic suicide bombers, they needn't have bothered as they never have the guts to portray Islam or Asians (Muslims) in a bad light anyway.
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