Atheism = Islam

[iandonlyhim]

You're a joke.

Shhhh! It is not polite to call your daddy a joke. And by that I am only quoting you calling me your dad.

Aside from that, OK, I challenge you to tell me who else aside from Byte who ignored my posts and so I told him I will ignore his posts and Wizard who goes way beyond point and writes a big essay. You have to remember I am arguing with like 10 morons and dont really have time to waste on useless posts. So if you write something right I will read and respond.

So go ahead and be a man and take up the challenge but I doubt you will because you atheists never do good with challenges. Same happned to Sword of truth, Byte and now I am sure you.... You only argue on topics where you think you are good at and when cornered you run away.

[Sten]

You're a joke.

Shhhh! It is not polite to call your daddy a joke. And by that I am only quoting you calling me your dad.

Aside from that, OK, I challenge you to tell me who else aside from Byte who ignored my posts and so I told him I will ignore his posts and Wizard who goes way beyond point and writes a big essay. You have to remember I am arguing with like 10 morons and dont really have time to waste on useless posts. So if you write something right I will read and respond.

So go ahead and be a man and take up the challenge but I doubt you will because you atheists never do good with challenges. Same happned to Sword of truth, Byte and now I am sure you.... You only argue on topics where you think you are good at and when cornered you run away.

Lol, you want me to find cases where you said you didn't read posts ASIDE from those two instances. As if they weren't enough. What a joke you are.

[planck]

You go get'em iandonlyhim. What's up with these damn atheists? It's like they're perpetually angry or something. Just like the muslims.

Italy school crucifixes 'barred'

The European Court of Human Rights has ruled against the use of crucifixes in classrooms in Italy.

It said the practice violated the right of parents to educate their children as they saw fit, and ran counter to the child's right to freedom of religion.

The case was brought by an Italian mother, Soile Lautsi, who wants to give her children a secular education.

But the ruling has sparked anger in the largely Catholic country, with one politician calling the move "shameful".

The Strasbourg court found that: "The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities... restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions."

It also restricted the "right of children to believe or not to believe", the seven judges ruling on the case said in a statement quoted by AFP news agency.

'Italian tradition'

Mrs Lautsi complained to the European court that her children had to attend a public school in northern Italy that had crucifixes in every room.

She was awarded 5,000 euros ($7,400; £4,500) in damages.

But many politicians in Italy have reacted angrily.

Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini said the crucifix was a "symbol of our tradition", and not a mark of Catholicism.

One government minister called the ruling "shameful", while another said that Europe was forgetting its Christian heritage.

The government says it will appeal against the decision. The Vatican says it will study the ruling before issuing a comment.

The BBC's Duncan Kennedy in Rome says that it is customary in Italy to see crucifixes in public buildings, including schools, despite the constitution saying that there should be a separation of church and state.

The law requiring crucifixes to be hung in schools dates back to the 1920s.

Although a revised accord between the Vatican and the Italian government ended Catholicism's position as the state religion in 1984, the crucifix law has never been repealed.

Some conservatives have already complained about schools dropping nativity plays to avoid upsetting Muslim children.

You should keep a running tally of these stories. There's a ton of them. The alliance defense fund deals with a ton of them here in the US.
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx

They're like the anti-ACLU.

I'm a big fan of yours buddy!

[Marie]

You go get'em iandonlyhim. What's up with these damn atheists? It's like they're perpetually angry or something. Just like the muslims.

Italy school crucifixes 'barred'

The European Court of Human Rights has ruled against the use of crucifixes in classrooms in Italy.

It said the practice violated the right of parents to educate their children as they saw fit, and ran counter to the child's right to freedom of religion.

The case was brought by an Italian mother, Soile Lautsi, who wants to give her children a secular education.

But the ruling has sparked anger in the largely Catholic country, with one politician calling the move "shameful".

The Strasbourg court found that: "The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities... restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions."

It also restricted the "right of children to believe or not to believe", the seven judges ruling on the case said in a statement quoted by AFP news agency.

'Italian tradition'

Mrs Lautsi complained to the European court that her children had to attend a public school in northern Italy that had crucifixes in every room.

She was awarded 5,000 euros ($7,400; £4,500) in damages.

But many politicians in Italy have reacted angrily.

Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini said the crucifix was a "symbol of our tradition", and not a mark of Catholicism.

One government minister called the ruling "shameful", while another said that Europe was forgetting its Christian heritage.

The government says it will appeal against the decision. The Vatican says it will study the ruling before issuing a comment.

The BBC's Duncan Kennedy in Rome says that it is customary in Italy to see crucifixes in public buildings, including schools, despite the constitution saying that there should be a separation of church and state.

The law requiring crucifixes to be hung in schools dates back to the 1920s.

Although a revised accord between the Vatican and the Italian government ended Catholicism's position as the state religion in 1984, the crucifix law has never been repealed.

Some conservatives have already complained about schools dropping nativity plays to avoid upsetting Muslim children.

You should keep a running tally of these stories. There's a ton of them. The alliance defense fund deals with a ton of them here in the US.
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx

They're like the anti-ACLU.

I'm a big fan of yours buddy!

Secular Schools are not appropriate places to display crucifixes. Crucifixes are a symbol of Jesus's sacrifice and should be treated with respect. Therefore they do not belong in a secular school where children do not know how to handle them.

While it is atheist who are complaining about the use of religion in the secular schools, the people who make these decisions are not atheist. There are Liberal Christians who believe Church and state are separate institutions and should be kept that way.

[ixolite]

While i can't believe that Atheism=Islam, the responses by the atheists are revealing to say the least

How about you read some other posts/threads of IandonlyI, like i.e. the one I linked? This guy is clearly trolling and is treated accordingly.

Italy school crucifixes 'barred'

In Europe we have something called the seperation of state and religion. Christians/Jews/Mohammedans/Hindus/Sikh/etc. can plaster their PRIVATE schools with religious stuff as much as they like, but when it comes to state schools, religion has to stay out, no crucifixes and no hijab for teachers either.

[charleslemartel]

You go get'em iandonlyhim. What's up with these damn atheists? It's like they're perpetually angry or something. Just like the muslims.

I think he would prefer Muslims over atheists any day; Muslims are fellow believers in a way and will allow him to live as a dhimmi if he agrees to pay jiziya. Atheists would simply kill him; no questions asked whatsoever.

[planck]

You go get'em iandonlyhim. What's up with these damn atheists? It's like they're perpetually angry or something. Just like the muslims.

I think he would prefer Muslims over atheists any day; Muslims are fellow believers in a way and will allow him to live as a dhimmi if he agrees to pay jiziya. Atheists would simply kill him; no questions asked whatsoever.

OOOOHhh. That's a tough call. Where would I rather live, Islamic Theocracy or an Atheist Society. Neither one of them really have a good track record. I've actually had this "what would you rather" discussion before (with Ioshka). I think I'd take my chances with the authoritarian atheist regimes. At least I could still drink and eat bacon, and maybe go to a stripclub or something----before they put me in a gulag. Walking around town seeing women in garbage bags all day long is really depressing.

[Marie]

Italy school crucifixes 'barred'

In Europe we have something called the seperation of state and religion. Christians/Jews/Mohammedans/Hindus/Sikh/etc. can plaster their PRIVATE schools with religious stuff as much as they like, but when it comes to state schools, religion has to stay out, no crucifixes and no hijab for teachers either.

From Adam Hamilton's Confronting the Controversies: A Christian looks at the tough issues:

From the first Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or of the right of the people to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Within this one amendment are three clauses that relate to our theme today. The first is called the establishment clause: Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. This clause has been interpreted to mean that neither the United States Congress no any official national, state, or local government body-including schools- shall do anything to give even the appearance of establishing one religion over another. This right was crucial to some churches in the late eighteenth century, it was designed to benefit people like us. It guaranteed that the religion of the majority in a particular state could not become the official religion of the state. Methodists, Quakers, Baptists, and others we were in the minority-felt this clause was a source of protection from the majority Churches primarily the Church of England, which at the beginning of our country dominated the south, or the Congregational Church which dominated New England. Both of these denominations had advocates who wished to make them the official national church.

The second clause is called the Free Exercise Clause: Congress shall make no law....prohibiting free exercise ( of religion ). Again this protected the basic right of all religious minorities to practice their faith freely. It made clear that the state would keep it's hands out of the religious arena. This is one of the most important guarantees of the constitution and it has allowed religion in America to flourish.

The third clause that is often discussed in terms of debate is called the free speech clause: Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. Once again , we treasure this part of our constitution allowing each person the freedom to express the individual views or opinions of the majority.

According to Hamilton the debate about prayer and religion in public schools is not new. This debate began in the mid-1800s between factions within the Christian communities. At that time there had been a recent influx of immigrants from Roman Catholic countries and the debate was between Roman Catholics and Protestants. Catholics began to recent the daily scripture readings from the King James Bible ( the Protestant Bible ), the Bible instruction that reflected only protestant interpretations and the sectarian prayers that were mandatory in the public schools where their children were being educated, which were paid for by their taxes. They felt that what their children were being taught in school was often contrary to what they themselves were teaching their children at home, and in some cases teachers were telling children that their parents beliefs were wrong.

The parents began seeking change by asking that Catholic children be allowed to read from Catholic versions of the Bible. When this request was denied, Roman Catholics initiated efforts to take the teaching of religion out of the public schools. The Courts ruled the Catholics were right, but these efforts resulted in a tremendous anti-Catholic backlash. At one point 13 Catholics were killed and 2 Catholic Churches were burned to the ground. Ultimately the Catholic response was to start the parochial school system where Catholic Children were to receive a Catholic education.

Hamilton states the elimination of school-sponsered prayer is an essential part of protecting all of our rights as Christians and he counts on the fact that the school and teachers will not try to influence his children's choice of faiths or their religious practices. The current interpretation of constitutional law as it relates to prayer in public school is meant to ensure that this will not occur.

Hamilton did not state in his book the elimination of school-sponsered prayer also protects the rights of nonchristians.

Hamilton states there is a document called Religion in the Public Schools: A Joint Statement of Current Law. It was drafted by all groups representing all sides of the ideological spectrum including the National Association of Evangelicals and the American Civil Liberties Union. According to this document there are numerous ways we can live out our faith in the public schools, including the following:

Students can:

1. Pray any time in school

2.Pray anywhere in school

3.Wear clothing with a religious message

4. Share their faith in school

5. Meet for Bible study after hours

6. Write about religious topics as long as they meet the criteria of the assignment


Teachers can:

1. Wear crosses

2. Teach the importance of religion to society as a part of social studies classes

3.Study the Bible as literature

4.Discuss the origins of religious days

5. Assign Classic literature with religious themes.

At the end of the chapter Hamilton states our kids need to be praying in school, there's no doubt about it. But they can do this without being directed by the school.