Could the Vedic Varuna Be Allah ?

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The Cat
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Could the Vedic Varuna Be Allah ?

Post by The Cat »

Did the Vedic Varuna reappear as Allah ? Strictly speaking I really don't know thus the question mark, but traits are more than obvious.

I've explored the roots of the name Allah quite extensively in relation with Al-Ilah, the Syriac Alaha, the Egyptian Lah and Hittite Allahu...
viewtopic.php?p=99122#p99122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104047#p104047" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=121174#p121174" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But while searching for something else I came to this depiction of the Vedic Varuna:
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/ve ... asp#varuna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In Varuna we see the earliest signs of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God, the precursor of the Upamishadic Brahman.
Varuna is the ruler of the worlds, the ordainer and enforcer of law and upholder of the world order....

Varuna is the knower of all and controller of all. He is supreme God capable of controlling and dispensing justice....
If two people talking together, beware that Varuna is there watching every thing that is going on....

Varuna is the protector, ''the Holy One, helper of all mankind, the law maker whose holy laws remain unweakened.''
Together with Mitra, he controls the world order, Rta and when people transgress the moral order and commit sin,
he knows and punishes them. But if they repent and seek forgiveness, he forgives them too.
How Varuna came to be portrayed as Allah totally escapes me for the time being... But the link is there for us to see!
Even the relation between Allah and ar-Rahman (the Beneficent) is but a duplicate of the Varuna/Mitra co-existence!

I did continue my researches...

http://satyavidya.com/vedicislam.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Allah is the expression of the Vedic form of Brahman as Varuna-Rudra, the Divine merciful one and judge supreme. He is later known as Mahakala and Kala Bhairava in later Hinduism. Allah comes from "Ila / Ile" meaning "To Invoke" (Rig Ved.I.1.1). In older times, Allah was worshipped through fire and sacrifices, hence the name. Muslims as devotees of Allah are hence invokers.
Al-Illah or Allah would thus mean The Invoked One.

It is found in an apocryphal chapter of the Atharva Veda, called Alla-Upanishad or Allopanishad.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=RBngAAA ... na&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Om ! Allah, the bestower (of blessings) to us is Mitra; he is Varuna;
he sustains the things (of this world). Ilillah (the God) who is Varuna,
who is the king, verily gave us (all). We attain that Illah who is Mitra.

The God (ilillah) among gods (illan) is Mitra and Varuna.
He is manifest in his own light.... Ilallah who is Varuna,
who is the God verily gave us (all).
Om ! Allah il allah, the identity of the uncreate.
Here is Varuna portrayed as riding some kind of Buraq, named Makara said to be the Capricorn.
Image

http://www.karma2grace.org/encyclopedia/Varuna.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mythology: In the Vedas, Varuna is connected not directly to water but to water elements of ether and earth. Cosmic functions are attributed to him. He allows the sun to shine on the firmament. The wind that roars through the air is his breath. He created the beds of rivers, which by his command flow and pour their waters into the oceans without allowing them to overflow. By his laws the moon shines and the stars appear in the night sky, only to disappear mysteriously the next day. Nothing happens without his knowledge; no creature can move without him. He observes truth and duplicity in human beings. He has unlimited control over the fate of human beings, knows the answer to everything, and is merciful even to sinners. He is a wise guard of immortality. The characteristics and functions that are ascribed to Varuna raise him far above all other Vedic gods.

Varuna watches over humanity with a thousand eyes, and shares responsibility for the sacred order; therefore he is related with the concept of dharma.
Which in Islam becomes the fundamental Deen (Din) mistranslated by 'religion'. See my topic about the Koranic Law.

The bridge between the Vedic Varuna and the Islamic Allah must either come from Zoroastrianism or from the maritime trade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varuna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As chief of the Adityas, Varuna has aspects of a solar deity though, when opposed to Mitra, he is rather associated to the night, and Mitra to the daylight. As the most prominent Asura, however, he is more concerned with moral and societal affairs than a deification of nature. Together with Mitra–originally oath personified—being master of ṛtل, he is the supreme keeper of order and god of the law.

Varuna and Mitra are the gods of the oath, often twinned or identified as Mitra-Varuna (a dvandva compound). Varuna is also twinned with Indra in the Rigveda, as Indra-Varuna. As a sky god, Varuna may either correspond to, or rule over, the dark half of the sky—or celestial ocean (Rasā), hence being sometimes considered also a god of rain (In the hymns, rain is more often associated to Mitra) —or represent the 'dark' side of the Sun as it travels back from West to East during the night.

The Atharvaveda portrays Varuna as omniscient, catching liars in his snares.
The stars are his thousand-eyed spies, watching every movement of men...
The same article under Zoroastrianism states:
''It has also been observed that Varuna has the byname Bhaga, as Baga attested in the Avesta.''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaga" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sanskrit bhaga is a term for "lord, patron", but also for "wealth, prosperity". The cognate term in Avestan and Old Persian is baga, of uncertain meaning but used in a sense in which "lord, patron" might also apply. A Slavic cognate is bog "god". While the word "bog" denoted nearly all Slavic gods, the word Deva in its cognate Div was used only for the creator god - Rod, the Slavic equivalent of Brahma. The semantics is similar to English lord (from hlaford "bread warden"), the idea being that it is part of the function of a chieftain or leader to distribute riches or spoils among his followers. The name Baghdad shares its origins with the Middle Persian baga (baga-data: "god given", modern Persian: "Baghdad")

In the Rigveda Bhaga is the god who supervises the distribution of goods and destiny to each man corresponding to his merits. The word apparently, is cognative to "Bhagavan" and "Bhagya", terms used in several Indian languages to refer to God & destiny respectively.
Keeping on this lead...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhagavan, also written Bhagwan or Bhagawan, from the Sanskrit... literally means "possessing fortune, blessed, prosperous" (from the noun bhaga, meaning "fortune, wealth", cognate to Slavic bog "god", Russian богач (boga'ch) "wealthy"), and hence "illustrious, divine, venerable, holy", etc.

In some traditions of Hinduism it is used to indicate the Supreme Being or Absolute Truth, but with specific reference to that Supreme Being as possessing a personality (a personal God). This personal feature indicated in Bhagavan differentiates its usage from other similar terms such as Brahman, the "Supreme Spirit" or "spirit", and thus, in this usage, Bhagavan is in many ways analogous to the general Christian conception of God.
Well it's definitively more analogous with Varuna/Allah and all of His 99 names (+) !!!
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Wootah
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Re: Could the Vedic Varuna Be Allah ?

Post by Wootah »

Cat don't you think it more likely that some Muslim or Hindu made connections between the two religions long long ago that you are now researching as 'fact'? I do personally believe we see these connections between various 'gods' and myths because they come from the same source and got corrupted along the way.

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The Cat
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Re: Could the Vedic Varuna Be Allah ?

Post by The Cat »

Hi, Wootah...

I wouldn't call this process 'corrupted' but an evolution by which societies adapt things of the past to their newer suiting profile.

Hinduism is the oldest of all religions and, as such, had impact on them all, if only by opposition like Zoroastrianism/Buddhism.

In the case of Islam I found that many fundamental tenets have its source in Hinduism, like that of Jihad/Yuddha Dharma:
http://www.hindurevolution.org/01/dharmayuddha.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dharma is the Divine Law which supports Truth, Order and Justice in the world. Therefore, it is the duty of all Hindus, who are followers
of Dharma, to uphold the Law of Dharma on Earth. When Righteousness (Dharma) comes under attack, it is the holy duty of all righteous
men to stand up and defend it.... The general definition of Dharma Yuddha, therefore, is “struggle for the restoration of Righteousness
and destruction of Unrighteousness as a moral and spiritual duty or obligation”....

This righteous struggle has many aspects of which the most important are: religious, political, military, cultural, social and economic.

Some parallels:
--The Vedic Rta is rewritten in the Islamic Deen.
--All people are Hindus or Muslims from birth.
--The Hindu Yuddha Dharma is echoed by the Islamic Jihad.
--Ijtihad = Inquisitiveness (same root as Jihad)
--Retaliation/retribution = Karma
--Taw'hid = Advaita (no two)
--Physical worship, cleaning = Bhakti.
--Ritual circumambulation (both)
--Prophets = avatars, incarnations
--Jinns = Asuras, Rakshasas
--Heavenly virgins = Apsaras
--Allah/Isa (Rahman) = Varuna/Mitra (ie. sky vs sun)

Now not only do the attributes of the Vedic Varuna perfectly correspond to those of Allah (both merciful yet judge, ruler and ordainer),
but his godship with Mitra (the god of the Covenant) is also reproduced in the relation between Allah and ar-Rahman (the Beneficent).

43.45: Did We make, other than the Compassionate, (other) gods to be worshiped?
17.110: Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same).

Now, Rahman was the main divinity of the Sabaeans and of Musaylima a contender to Muhammad.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Sabaeans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The inscriptions of 582 (A.D. 467) and 573 (A.D. 458), so far as they can be read, contain no name of a heathen god,
but do speak of a god Rahmanan - that is, the Hebrew Rahman, " the compassionate " (Arabic, al-Rahman), agreeably
with the fact that Jewish and Christian influences were powerful in Arabia in the 4th century.
And we know for sure that Rahman was the Father of the Messiah from the Abraha inscription:
--bi khayl Rahmanan wa masyha malikan Abraha Zybman malik...
--With the power of the Almighty and His Messiah, King Abraha...

In Hinduism for example he was known as Rama, the guardian of the religious spirit; In old Egypt (Kemet) he is Ra-Amon!
In Judeo-Christianity we find Rahmana, Aramaic Rahmano, out of the Semitic root RHM. In the Bible it is used in Dt.4.31;
Ex.4.22-23; Isaiah 64.8; Hos. 1.10; Jn.1.12-13. Its meaning related to a benevolent Father looking upon His community.

Rahman is a divinity by himself known in Hinduism, old Egypt, Judaism and Assyria where he was known as Ramanu,
a god of thunder especially worshiped in Damascus (2Kg.5.18-27). He was usually associated with Hadad as Rimmon.

The Bismillah is among the earliest attestations of the emerging Islam that we have, from coins and inscriptions.
If we are to rely on the fundamentals of the Medina Constitution, it MUST be a tentative to unite three divinities
into one and the same (as in Q.29.46): Allah for Islam, ar-Rahman for Christianity... and ar-Rahim for Judaism!

29.46: And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say:
We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender.


Mitra became the sustainer-sun, the mediator between the sky and earth, the Living Covenant, the Word of Truth: ie. the Koranic Isa !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitra_%28Vedic%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Varuna and Mitra are the gods of the oath and tribal contracts, often twinned as Mitra-Varuna (). In some of their aspects, Varuna is lord of the cosmic rhythm of the celestial spheres, while Mitra brings forth the light at dawn, which was covered by Varuna..... RV 3.59 is the only hymn dedicated to Mitra exclusively, where he is lauded as a god following ṛta, order and stability and of observances, the sustainer of mankind.... In the late Vedic Shatapatha Brahmana, Mitra-varuna is analyzed as "the Counsel and the Power" -Mitra being the priesthood (Purohita), Varuna the royal power (Rājān).
On all this I can't help but see the overall major influences of Salman the Persian in many Koranic fundamental tenets...
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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Ansar al-Zindiqi
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Re: Could the Vedic Varuna Be Allah ?

Post by Ansar al-Zindiqi »

Those are some interesting parallels but I do read it with a measure of caution. Especially when keeping this quote in mind:
How else could it have occurred to man to divide the cosmos, on the analogy of day and night, summer and winter, into a bright day-world and a dark night-world peopled with fabulous monsters, unless he had the prototype of such a division in himself, in the polarity between the conscious and the invisible and unknowable unconscious? Primitive man's perception of objects is conditioned only partly by the objective behaviour of the things themselves, whereas a much greater part is often played by intrapsychic facts which are not related to the external objects except by way of projection. This is due to the simple fact that the primitive has not yet experienced that ascetic discipline of mind known to us as the critique of knowledge. To him the world is a more or less fluid phenomenon within the stream of his own fantasy, where subject and object are undifferentiated and in a state of mutual interpenetration.

"Psychological Aspects of the Mother Archetype" (1939) In CW 9, Part 1: The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious. P. 187
Don't be a believer but a heretic unto yourself.

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The Cat
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Re: Could the Vedic Varuna Be Allah ?

Post by The Cat »

Ansar al-Zindiqi wrote:Those are some interesting parallels but I do read it with a measure of caution.
So do I, Ansar...

Still the parallels are striking between Allah and His Deen with the Vedic Varuna, protector of the Rta/Dharma:

http://www.karma2grace.org/encyclopedia/Varuna.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By his laws the moon shines and the stars appear in the night sky, only to disappear mysteriously the next day. Nothing happens
without his knowledge; no creature can move without him. He observes truth and duplicity in human beings. He has unlimited control
over the fate of human beings, knows the answer to everything, and is merciful even to sinners. He is a wise guard of immortality.
The characteristics and functions that are ascribed to Varuna raise him far above all other Vedic gods. Varuna watches over humanity
with a thousand eyes, and shares responsibility for the sacred order; therefore he is related with the concept of dharma.
And between Allah/Isa (via ar-Rahman) and Varuna/Mitra (sky and sun, or heavenly 'son')...
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/ve ... .asp#mitra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mitra and Varuna are both lords of the heaven. Together they uphold the law... The watchful twain, most potent, together uphold Rta or
the moral order.... Thence they give forth great vital strength which merits praise, high power of life that men shall praise. We are informed
from the hymns that Mitra stirs men to action and sustains both earth and heaven. Both Mitra and Varuna are guardians of the world...
In the course of time, Mitra came to be associated with morning light, while Varuna with the night sky.
Mitra and Varuna were somehow blended together in Zoroastrianism, yet their complementarity shows back again in the Koran!

I feel that this could become a matter of study in comparative religions: Allah's character has an obvious predecessor...
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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