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Re: Syriac Resources and Texts (esp. 7th century)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:59 am
by Fernando
Ibn Rushd wrote:I have been able to recover my Old Forum posting from the Wayback Machine.
Interesting, though a bit deep for me. However, one thing struck me: in your post of Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:39 am, you quote GS Reynolds as saying
Meanwhile, the Mutazilite doctrine of the un-createdness of the Qur'an discouraged scholars from finding temporal or secular qualities therein
I just happened to come across this context a couple of days ago and found this in Wikipedia
Al-Waqidi's works are known through his scribe and student, Ibn Sa'd, who also worked under Al-Mamun and was a proponent of the Muʿtazila doctrine of the created Quran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Waqidi(Immediately before the contents panel)
We seem to have two contradictory ideas as to what the Mutazilites believed! There is another Wikipedia entry dealing directly with Mu'tazilites:
Mu'tazila (Arabic: المعتزلة‎‎ al-muʿtazilah) is a school of Islamic theology[1] that flourished in the cities of Basra and Baghdad, both in present-day Iraq, during the 8th–10th centuries. The adherents of the Mu'tazili school—known in English as Mu'tazilites —are best known for their denying the status of the Qur'an as uncreated and co-eternal with God,[2] asserting that if the Quran is the word of God, logically God "must have preceded his own speech".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila
So we have Reynolds saying they hold the Koran to be uncreated, Wikipedia 1) and 2) saying created. What's a poor infidel to think? It's as contradictory as the Koran itself!
EDIT:
Not sure if this sort of discussion is allowed - someone let me know if not and I'll move it to the thread where I mentioned Mu'tazilites

Re: Syriac Resources and Texts (esp. 7th century)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:45 pm
by Ibn Rushd
Not sure if we can take wikipedia as an objective or independent source as so much of it is controlled by Muslims, 3rd parties, and general shady characters. I also think that that sources from the 8th-10th centuries are heavily politicized and agenda driven, so we may not truly know what the Mutazalites actually believed, as the documents are written by their enemies.

Re: Syriac Resources and Texts (esp. 7th century)

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:58 pm
by Fernando
I've just found this on the Internet Archive:
The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran
by Christoph Luxenberg
https://archive.org/details/ChristophLuxenberg
Several downloads available.