Faith Freedom International

We oppose Islam, not Muslims. We are against hate, not faith

Skip to content


Advanced search
  • Board index ‹ Comments ‹ Comments on the Main Site and Forum ‹ Comments on the Articles Posted in the Main Site
  • Change font size
  • Print view
  • FAQ
  • Register
  • Login

The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Each thread posted in this forum must include the relevant link to the article. This link must be placed in the first line of the opening post. Failure to do so will result in the thread being deleted or moved. This forum will replace the now archived one of the same name.
Post a reply
10 posts • Page 1 of 1
  • Reply with quote

The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby The Cat » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:15 am

Sam Vaknin
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/02/06/ ... iberalism/

The Clash of Islam and Liberalism
Secular religions - Democratic Liberalism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, Socialism and other isms - are more akin to Islam than to, let’s say, Buddhism. They are universal, prescriptive, and total. They provide recipes, rules, and norms regarding every aspect of existence - individual, social, cultural, moral, economic, political, military, and philosophical.

At the end of the Cold War, Democratic Liberalism stood triumphant over the fresh graves of its ideological opponents. They have all been eradicated. This precipitated Fukuyama’s premature diagnosis (the End of History). But one state ideology, one bitter rival, one implacable opponent, one contestant for world domination, one antithesis remained - Islam.

Militant Islam is, therefore, not a cancerous mutation of “true” Islam. On the contrary, it is the purest expression of its nature as an imperialistic religion which demands unmitigated obedience from its followers and regards all infidels as both inferior and avowed enemies.

The same can be said about Democratic Liberalism. Like Islam, it does not hesitate to exercise force, is missionary, colonizing, and regards itself as a monopolist of the “truth” and of “universal values”. Its antagonists are invariably portrayed as depraved, primitive, and below par.

Such mutually exclusive claims were bound to lead to an all-out conflict sooner or later. The “War on Terrorism” is only the latest round in a millennium-old war between Islam and other “world systems”.

------------ Would you rather live under sharia law? Don’t you find Liberal Democracy vastly superior to Islam?

Superior, no. Different - of course. Having been born and raised in the West, I naturally prefer its standards to Islam’s. Had I been born in a Muslim country, I would have probably found the West and its principles perverted and obnoxious.

The question is meaningless because it presupposes the existence of an objective, universal, culture and period independent set of preferences. Luckily, there is no such thing.

---------- In this clash of civilization whose side are you on?

This is not a clash of civilizations. Western culture is inextricably intertwined with Islamic knowledge, teachings, and philosophy. Christian fundamentalists have more in common with Muslim militants than with East Coast or French intellectuals.

Muslims have always been the West’s most defining Other. Islamic existence and “gaze” helped to mold the West’s emerging identity as a historical construct. From Spain to India, the incessant friction and fertilizing interactions with Islam shaped Western values, beliefs, doctrines, moral tenets, political and military institutions, arts, and sciences.

This war is about world domination. Two incompatible thought and value systems compete for the hearts and minds (and purchasing power) of the denizens of the global village. Like in the Westerns, by high noon, either one of them is left standing - or both will have perished. (...)

The world of the future will be truly pluralistic. The proselytizing zeal of Liberal Democracy and Capitalism has rendered them illiberal and intolerant. The West must accept the fact that a sizable chunk of humanity does not regard materialism, individualism, liberalism, progress, and democracy - at least in their Western guises - as universal or desirable.

Live and let live (and live and let die) must replace the West’s malignant optimism and intellectual and spiritual arrogance.(...)

The prominent ideologues of liberal democracy have committed a grave error by linking themselves inextricably with the doctrine of freemarketry and the emerging new order of globalization. As Thomas Friedman correctly observes in “The Lexus and the Olive Tree”, both strains of thought are strongly identified with the United States of America (USA).

Thus, liberal democracy came to be perceived by the multitudes as a ruse intended to safeguard the interests of an emerging, malignantly narcissistic empire (the USA) and of rapacious multinationals. Liberal democracy came to be identified with numbing, low-brow cultural homogeneity, encroachment on privacy and the individual, and suppression of national and other idiosyncratic sentiments.

Liberal democracy came to be confused and confuted with neo-colonial exploitation, social Darwinism, and the crumbling of social compacts and long-standing treaties, both explicit and implicit. It even came to be associated with materialism and a bewildering variety of social ills: rising crime rates, unemployment, poverty, drug addiction, prostitution, organ trafficking, monopolistic behavior, corporate malfeasance, and other antisocial forms of conduct.

The backlash was, thus, inevitable.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
User avatar
The Cat
 
Posts: 2069
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:23 pm
Gender: None specified
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby ixolite » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:23 am

Please tell me this isn't really published on the main site. :nono:
Please tell me we don't give this wacko a place for his rants. :nono:
Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.



"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr
User avatar
ixolite
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:19 am
Location: Berlin, D
Gender: Female
  • Website
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby The Cat » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:48 pm

ixolite wrote:Please tell me this isn't really published on the main site. :nono:
Please tell me we don't give this wacko a place for his rants. :nono:

See: The Menace Called Obama, by Ali Sina...
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/16/ ... led-obama/
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
User avatar
The Cat
 
Posts: 2069
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:23 pm
Gender: None specified
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby mrcommonsensenow » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:00 pm

Excellent reply Cat. :clap:
It is not logical to believe that the same God who has allegedly endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
User avatar
mrcommonsensenow
 
Posts: 1298
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:13 pm
Gender: None specified
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby Ex_muslimah » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:53 pm

The guy is a self confessed narcissist and that is attention seeking for him.

One thing with an opinion, another thing were OTHER people have also mentioned the dangers of someone
The Borg is Sci-fi's Islam, the collective is the Ummah and the prey (Kaffir) is assimilated!.

http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/ for if you are from an arranged marriage against your will.
User avatar
Ex_muslimah
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:48 pm
Gender: None specified
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby FinallyFree » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:39 pm

That part is fairly open in regards to what it allows, any of you can make an indirect rebuttal and ask for it to be published.

No?

Please people, we have to stop this divisive game, stop obsessing over Ali's thoughts in regards to Obama, we are all in this together and we all benefit from the fall of Islam. We obviously all have differant relgions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc) or not, and we all have differant political opinions (Conservative, Liberal, Nationalist etc) so we can't go around pointing out these differances as we wouldn't get very far.

Regards.
FinallyFree
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:53 am
Gender: Male
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby Ex_muslimah » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:56 pm

I meant Vaknin if you were wondering
The Borg is Sci-fi's Islam, the collective is the Ummah and the prey (Kaffir) is assimilated!.

http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/ for if you are from an arranged marriage against your will.
User avatar
Ex_muslimah
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:48 pm
Gender: None specified
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby Ansar al-Zindiqi » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:12 am

I don't mind anyone using Vaknin as a reference but his ideas were preceded decades ago by the likes of Erich Fromm and his take on necrophilia. I think Vaknin has simply done a re-packaging job that is made for mass-marketing. While Fromm was also accused of that his approach and depth of his writings is far wider so I wouldn't recommend Vaknin as a primary source.

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/vi ... erich.html
Don't be a believer but a heretic unto yourself.
User avatar
Ansar al-Zindiqi
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:35 am
Gender: None specified
  • Website
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby ixolite » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:21 pm

Guess what was part of the last newsletter? :bashwall: I can't believe we host this on our site, but now we also have to spread it via newsletter? :gaah:

The Cat wrote:See: The Menace Called Obama, by Ali Sina...
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/16/ ... led-obama/

Another nice proof of how Ali is not openminded as he likes to claim. Despite being proven that this guy is clearly not credible, he keeps to endorse him.

Dr. Vaknin is a world renowned authority on narcissism.

In which parallel universe?
Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.



"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr
User avatar
ixolite
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:19 am
Location: Berlin, D
Gender: Female
  • Website
Top

  • Reply with quote

Re: The Clash of Islam and Liberalism -Sam Vaknin

Postby skynightblaze » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:33 pm

ixolite wrote:Guess what was part of the last newsletter? :bashwall: I can't believe we host this on our site, but now we also have to spread it via newletter? :gaah:

The Cat wrote:See: The Menace Called Obama, by Ali Sina...
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/16/ ... led-obama/

Another nice proof of how Ali is not openminded as he likes to claim. Despite being proven that this guy is clearly not credible, he keeps to endorse him.

Dr. Vaknin is a world renowned authority on narcissism.

In which parallel universe?



Cool down darling. I see you get upset very early.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
User avatar
skynightblaze
 
Posts: 3979
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:51 am
Gender: Male
Top


Post a reply
10 posts • Page 1 of 1

Return to Comments on the Articles Posted in the Main Site

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

  • Board index
  • The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group