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Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:33 pm
by Myxtic
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/11/ ... ictions-2/

this is a rebuttal to the above article posted by Abul Kasem ...

this is how he begins his article ...


Abul Kasem wrote:January 8, 2009

A note to the readers:
In part one I wrote that verses 2:51 and 7:142 contradicted. However, the Qur’an says in both the verses that Moses appointment with Allah was for forty nights. Verse 2:51 clearly says forty nights. Yusuf Ali translates 7:142 in this manner (to be fair, please ignore Yusuf Ali’s insertions inside the parentheses):

7:142 YUSUFALI: We appointed for Moses thirty nights, and completed (the period) with ten (more): thus was completed the term (of communion) with his Lord, forty nights. And Moses had charged his brother Aaron (before he went up): “Act for me amongst my people: Do right, and follow not the way of those who do mischief.”

Ibn Kathir [http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1115&Itemid=62] explains the ambiguity in this manner:

‘Allah reminds the Children of Israel of the guidance that He sent to them by speaking directly to Musa and revealing the Tawrah to him. In it, was their law and the details of their legislation. Allah stated here that He appointed thirty nights for Musa. The scholars of Tafsir said that Musa fasted this period, and when they ended, Musa cleaned his teeth with a twig. Allah commanded him to complete the term adding ten more days, making the total forty. When the appointed term finished, Musa was about to return to Mount Tur.’

This explanation is confusing. To say the least—could it that Allah’s instruction to Moses was to fast during night (forty nights in total) and seek audience with Allah during the day (forty days in total). It could be either. I chose the first option: that is Moses fasted during nights and met Allah during day.

Nevertheless, it appears ibn Kathir might be incorrect if we are to accept the original Arabic version of this verse.

I apologize to the readers for creating misunderstanding because of ibn Kathir’s tafsir.



it's good to see that Abul Kasem began his article by apologizing ...

for one of his many blunders in the previous article ...



Sura 3: al Imran (The Family of Imran)
3:2
Worship none but Allah; He is the ever living, and the sustainer of all things.
Contradiction: 12:100 says Allah allowed Joseph’s brethren and his parents to worship Joseph.


verse 3:2 says there is no god but Allah ...

whereas verse 12:100 speaks not of deifying but of mere prostration of the brethren of Prophet Joseph, as a symbol of their apology for all the wrong that they had done to him in the past ...



3:3
Allah sent the Qur’an to Muhammad (the ENTIRE Qur’an).
Contradiction: 17:106, 25:32 say Allah sent the Qur’an in stages.


just like your previous article ...

you have treacherously added the phrase (the ENTIRE Qur’an)

verse 3:3 says the Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad ...

& verse 17:106 says that the procedure of this revelation was in stages ...


so where is the contradiction b/w the two ... ??



3:7
Allah has sent down the Book. Only men of understanding will grasp the messages of the Qur’an; some verses are basic some are allegorical; perverse hearts follow allegorical verses to find hidden meanings to make discord; only Allah knows the hidden meanings of the Qur’an.

Contradiction: 16:103 says the Qur’an is in clear Arabic.


verse 3:7 says some of he verses in the Quran are allegorical ...

whereas verse 16:103 says that the language in the Quran is not foreign but obviously Arabic ...



3:18
Allah, His angels, and the knowledgeable people bear witness that none is to be worshipped except Him. Maintaining His creation is justice.

Contradiction: 12:100 says Allah allowed Joseph’s brethren and his parents to prostrate before (worship) Joseph.


verse 3:18 speaks of worshiping ...

whereas verse 12:100 speaks not of worship, but of mere prostration of the brethren of Prophet Joseph, as a symbol of their apology for all the wrong that they had done to him in the past ...



3:20
Muhammad’s duty is only to convey the messages of Allah. (Allah has sent Muhammad to the illiterate Arabs—ibn Kathir)

Contradiction: Allah says in 8:39 if the unbelievers do not convert to Islam fight them.


yeah verse 3:20 says that Prophet Muhammad's duty is to deliver the message ...

but what about those who tribulated the delivery of the message (Islam) with utmost toil ... ??



008.015
O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.

008.030
Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah

008.036
The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;

008.038
Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).

008.056
Those of them with whom thou madest a treaty, and then at every opportunity they break their treaty, and they keep not duty (to Allah)



Conclusion:

we can say, the Muslims were to fight those:

a) who met the Muslims in war

b) who plotted to kill Prophet Muhammad

c) who spent their resources against Islam to persecute the Muslims

d) who violated their treaties against the Muslims



hence those were to be faught who faught the Muslims

therefore 8:39 doesnt contradict 3:20 ...



3:33 34
Allah chose the families of Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Imran above all people.

Contradiction: 2:47, 45:16 17 say Allah favored the Children of Israel above all beings.
Contradiction: 3:42 says Allah preferred Mary above all women.


verse 3:33-34 says that most of the Prophets were linked to the families of the above mentioned Prophets ...

whereas verse 2:47 speaks of the favours granted to the Israelites by Allah, like a/c to the Quran, the Israelites are the only nation who were even sent food from the Heavens ...

& verse 3:42 simply speaks of the honour of Hazrat Mariyam to be the mother of Prophet Jesus ...


mind showing me the contradiction now ... ??



3:41: The angel (Gabriel) instructed Zachariya to remain silent for three days, communicating only through signs, and offering two prayers—in the evening and in the morning.

Contradiction: in 19:10 Allah commanded Zachariya to remain silent for three nights.


yeah verse 19:10 mentions 3 nights ...

& verse 3:41 speaks of 3 'ayyaam' meaning 3 days like Sunday, Monday etc, which includes the nights as well ...

or it may also be taken as 3 periods referring to 3 nights ...


either way it doesnt contradict verse 19:10 ...



3:42
Angels told Mary that she is chosen above women of nations.

Contradiction: 19:17 says one angel, as a man, spoke to Mary.


3:45
The angels told Maryam (Mary) that she would give birth to Jesus, a Word (manifestation) of Allah and Jesus will be held in great honor, and he will be nearest to Allah.

Contradiction: 19:17 says an angel, in the shape of a man, visited Mary.


these verses speak of different situations :lol:


what is verse 3:42 about ??

initially 2 angels were sent to Hazrat Maryam ...

they gave her the glad tidings of the birth of Prophet Jesus ...



what is verse 19:17 about ??

later on when Hazrat Maryam realized that she was bearing a baby in her womb ...

she moved away from her family & the ppl, there 1 angel was sent to her ...

019.016-017
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.



Conclusion:

hence 3:42 & 19:17 are about different occasions ...



3:45
The angels told Maryam (Mary) that she would give birth to Jesus, a Word (manifestation) of Allah and Jesus will be held in great honor, and he will be nearest to Allah.

Contradiction: in 21:98 Allah says all objects worshipped by men besides Allah will be in hell, i.e., Jesus will burn in hell.


well the verse says:

021.098
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.


doesnt this 'what' (ma in Arabic) refer to the non-living things ... ??

Prophet Jesus doesnt belong to that category for sure ... :wink:

so it should have been 'who/whom' (man in Arabic) to uphold your false claim ...



3:59
Allah created Adam from dust, Allah said ‘be’ and Adam was there; Jesus looked like Adam (as Allah made Jesus without a father He made him look like Adam, and because Adam had no father or mother, Allah created Adam from dust—ibn Kathir).

Contradiction: 38:71 says Allah created Adam out of wet clay..
Contradiction: 15:26 says Allah created Adam out of sounding (black burnt) clay and mud.
Contradiction: 38:75 says Allah created Adam with His two hands.


cant there be more than one ingredients for such a complex creation as man ?



3:67
Abraham was not a Jew, nor a Christian, but a Muslim (Hanif), and Muhammad is the nearest to Abraham.

Contradiction: Allah says in 6:14 that Muhammad was the first Muslim.
Contradiction: 7:143 says Moses was the first to believe in Islam.
Contradiction: 2:37 says Adam was the first Muslim.
Contradiction: 26:51 says some Egyptians were the first Muslims.


all the prophets were the first amongst their nation & in their era, to believe in Allah

so where the hell is the contradiction ... ??



3:78
Some Jews and Christians twisted Allah’s scriptures and passed them as Allah’s messages.

Contradiction: 6:34, 6:115 say none can alter the words of Allah.


verse 3:78 speaks of 'twisting' with the tongue, not 'changing'



3:85
Allah will not accept any religion other than Islam.

Contradiction: 2:62 says Allah will reward Christians, Jews and the Sabians.


the ppl would be rewarded a/c to their deeds ...

the following verse answers the issue beyond a shadow of doubt ...

099.007-008
Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.



contd ....

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:37 pm
by Myxtic
3:97
Mecca is the station of Abraham: if you can afford then perform pilgrimage (hajj) in Mecca; Allah does not need ‘Alamin’(any of His creatures).

Contradiction: in 2:21 Allah says He needs mankind to worship Him.
Contradiction: 51:56 says Allah needs humans and jinns to worship Him.


ah liar ! :lol: show me the word 'need' in 2:21 & 51:56 ...

anywayZz i already answered that in detail while responding to your previous article ...


3:125
In Badr, Allah made a terrific onslaught with five thousand angels. (The angels wore white wool and had special markings distinguishing their horses—ibn Kathir)

Contradiction: 8:9 says in Badr, Allah helped the Muslims with one thousand angels.


003.124-125
When thou didst say unto the believers: Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord should support you with three thousand angels sent down (to your help)? Nay, but if ye persevere, and keep from evil, and (the enemy) attack you suddenly, your Lord will help you with five thousand angels sweeping on.

reading 3:124-125 shows that the number of angels increased from 3000 to 5000 due to perseverance, patience & piety

hence it is not difficult to understand 8:9 which speaks of 1000 angels ...


in short, the more perseverance & piety the Muslims exhibited, the more divine aid they became eligible of



3:144
Muhammad is no more than an apostle; apostles before him had died.

Contradiction: 4:157 says Allah raised Jesus up; Jesus did not die.


verse 3:144 simply teaches us that Prophet Muhammad was just a messenger, like many others who lived & died before him ...

whereas 4:157 speaks of a special incident of the ascension of Prophet Jesus, adding to the knowledge of the verse 3:144 ...




3:169 171
Those slain in Allah’s way (in Jihad) do not die; they live in the presence of Allah (in Islamic Paradise), and enjoy His provisions.

Contradiction: 19:70 71 say every soul, including that of a Muslim, at least for some time, will be in hell.


verse 19:70-71 speaks of approaching/passing over/seeing/coming to the Hell ...

but not of the burning/punishing/living of the martyrs in the Hell-fire ...


hence there is no contradiction b/w 3:169-171 & 19:71 ...



3:180
Allah does not like stingy people; Allah will tie the covetous articles like twisted collars in the necks of unbelievers. Allah is the inheritor of the heavens and the earth.

Contradiction: 2:116, 3:189, 20:6, 21:19, 57:2 say Allah is the owner of all things in the heavens and in earth.

3:189
Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth belongs to Allah.

Contradiction: Allah says in 3:180, 15:23, 19:40, 19:80, 21:89, 28:58 He inherits from other infidels and other creatures.


definitely Allah posseses everything ...

but Allah lets the ppl take their decisions while they live in this world ...

whereas after it ends ... none would be able to do that ....

as Allah will put Himself in charge to judge them on the judgement day ...



Sura 4: an Nisa (Women)
4:5
Take care of the minor orphans’ property and do not handover their property to them while they remain minor (until they are marriageable).

Contradiction: 65:4 5 says prepubescent girls (minor girls) can be married.

4:6
Test the orphans for their maturity; release properties to orphans when they are capable of sound judgment (i.e., have attained maturity or puberty, usually taken as fifteen years of age. It is the marriageable age—Jalalyn. The age of puberty is the marriageable age—ibn Abbas).

Contradiction: 65:4 5 says prepubescent girls can be married.


nowhere does 65:4-5 say anything like that ...


065.004
And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who do not menstruate. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.


if a woman does not menstruate ...

it doesnt mean that it is necessarily b/c of the young age

it may simply be b/c of some illness



4:15
If a woman is lewd confine her in house till death (basis of honor killing in Islam); four believing male witnesses are required to prove a woman’s innocence.

Contradiction: in 24:2 Allah prescribes one hundred lashes for both men and women who perform lewdness.


verse 4:15 speaks of the lesbians ...

whereas verse 24:2 speaks of the adulterers/fornicators ...


now whereZ the contradiction ... ??




4:16
Allah prescribes unspecified punishment for lewdness by men; (homosexuality, gays—ibn Kathir); if the perpetrators repent then leave them alone.

Contradiction: in 24:2 Allah prescribes one hundred lashes for both men and women who do acts of homosexuality.
Contradiction: 4:15 says permanent house arrest, until they die, for women.


and again ...

verse 4:16 speaks of the gays ...

whereas verse 24:2 speaks of the adulterers/fornicators ...

& verse 4:15 speaks of the lesbians ...



4:18
Inflict the most grievous punishment for dying rejecting faith (i.e., those apostates who die as apostates.)

Contradiction: 10:90 says Pharaoh submitted to Islam when flood engulfed him.


verse 10:90 speaks of the repentance by Pharaoh in the face of his death, which was of no use ...

verse 4:18 clarifies:

004.018
Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.



4:46
Majority of the Jews distort the meaning of words by a twist of their tongues; Allah condemns them.

Contradiction: 6:34, 6:115 say none can alter the words of Allah.


answered above ...



4:48
Allah forgives every sin except idolatry (shrik).

Contradiction: in 4:153 Allah forgave the idolatry of Moses’ people.


let me clear your confusion in plain words ...


if the sinner repents:

Allah may forgive any sin including 'shirk'


if the sinner does not repent:

Allah may forgive any sin except 'shirk'



thats why the calf-worshipers were forgiven:

007.152-153
Those who took the calf (for worship) will indeed be overwhelmed with wrath from their Lord, and with shame in this life: thus do We recompense those who invent (falsehoods). But those who do wrong but repent thereafter and (truly) believe,- verily thy Lord is thereafter Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.



& thats what 4:110 too says:

004.110
If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.



4:75
Fight against oppression; Allah raises a protector from among the believers.

Contradiction: 9:116, 17:111, 32:4 and 42:28 say Allah is the only protector and helper.
Contradiction: 41:31, 32 say angels are our protectors in this life and the life hereafter.
Contradiction: 5:55 says Allah’s messengers are our protectors.


yeah, Allah is the only protector ...

but a God doesnt need to come down from the heavens to protect ...

He can use His tools (like angels/humans) & issue His decree ...


this is absolutely what the following verse says:

006.061
He is the Omnipotent over His slaves. He sendeth guardians over you until, when death cometh unto one of you, Our messengers receive him, and they neglect not.



4:78
Death will find you even if you are in towers built up strong and high. All things are from Allah.

Contradiction: in 4:120, 38:41 Allah says evil things are from Satan.
Contradiction: 4:79 says evil things are from us.

4:79
Good things are from Allah; evil things are from one’s own soul. Allah is the witness that Muhammad had been sent as a Messenger to people.

Contradiction: 4:120 and 38:41 say evil things are from Satan.
Contradiction: 4:78 says all things; including evil things, are from Allah.


yeah all things are from Allah ...

but the cause of evil are sometimes our own deeds, & sometimes the Satan ...



4:93
A dreadful penalty (hell, unspecified) is for a Muslim for intentionally killing another Muslim.

Contradiction: 2:178 says whoever kills deliberately must be killed, or if he is pardoned he must pay the blood money.


verse 4:93 speaks of the punishment in the life hereafter

whereas 2:178 speaks of the punishment in this world


that proves you to be a shame on the name of the critics of Islam :tongueout:



4:107
Allah does not like disloyalty.

Contradiction: 63:5 says Allah might forgive the hypocrites if Muhammad sought Allah’s forgiveness for them.


does 4:107 say 'Allah does not forgive treachery/hypocrisy'

if the answer is 'NO'

then how can there be a contradiction b/w the 2 verses ... ?? :wink:



4:116
Except the idolaters (shrik), Allah forgives whomever He pleases.

Contradiction: 4:153 says Allah forgave the calf worshippers of Moses’ people


4:120
Satan creates false desires; Satan deceives people.

Contradiction: 16:93 says Allah misleads who He wishes.
Contradiction: 4:78 says all things are from Allah.


4:150 151
Allah will severely punish those who deny Allah and Muhammad and those who separate Allah from His messengers.

Contradiction: 2:62 says Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabians—anyone who believes in Allah and the last Day and does a righteous deed will get rewards.


4:153
For asking Moses to show them Allah in public, Allah dazed people with thunder and lightning. Allah forgave Moses people who worshipped the golden calf.

Contradiction: 4:48 says Allah does not forgive idolatry, that is, shrik.
Contradiction: 2:63 says Allah terrorized Moses’ people by raising the Mount Sinai above them.


4:157
Jesus was not crucified; he did not die.

Contradiction: 3:144 says all prophets before Muhammad had died.
Contradiction: 23:15, 39:30 say everyone will die.


4:158
Allah raised Jesus up alive.

Contradiction: 21:98 says all objects worshipped by men besides Allah will be in Islamic hell; i.e., Jesus will burn in hell because the Christians worship him.


answered above ...



4:152
The believers should not make distinctions among the messengers; in the hereafter; Allah will reward such believers.

Contradiction: 2:253, 17:55 say Allah preferred some prophets over others.



yeah in 2:253/17:55 Allah says that He blessed some messengers more than others ...

but still the believers must not make distinctions b/w them & should respect all a/c to 4:152 ...

hence 4:152 just adds to the teachings of 2:253/17:55 ...



4:171
People of the Book are not to commit excesses in their religion; Jesus was only another apostle of Allah, he was the Word (manifestation) of Allah; Jesus is also a spirit from Allah; so, no Trinity.

Contradiction: 4:172 says Allah made Jesus His servant.

4:172
Christ (Messiah, Jesus) was a servant of Allah.

Contradiction: 4:171 says Jesus is a spirit and Word of Allah.


when the Quran mentions Prophet Jesus as a spirit & word of Allah ...

it portrays him as a manifestation of Allah's message, being a messenger ...

hence 4:171 & 4:172 dont contradict each other ...








Conclusion:

all of the so-called contradictions answered ...

thanxXx ... !!

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:14 am
by zulbrain
I am sure this satan will be trembling on his feet wehn he read your goodexplanation. he is a vbery confused man who is confusing otehr confused poeple. Instaed of tafris he should ahve read Quran in arbic. Tahnk you for the surgery on the pathological liar.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:06 am
by Aksel Ankersen
Myxtic wrote:
3:45
The angels told Maryam (Mary) that she would give birth to Jesus, a Word (manifestation) of Allah and Jesus will be held in great honor, and he will be nearest to Allah.

Contradiction: in 21:98 Allah says all objects worshipped by men besides Allah will be in hell, i.e., Jesus will burn in hell.


well the verse says:

021.098
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.


doesnt this 'what' (ma in Arabic) refer to the non-living things ... ??

Prophet Jesus doesnt belong to that category for sure ... :wink:

so it should have been 'who/whom' (man in Arabic) to uphold your false claim ...

Hello Myxtic, just popped back in.

قل ياايها الكافرون

لااعبد ماتعبدون

ولاانتم عابدون مااعبد


Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship."

-al Kafirun verse 1-3

Muhammad had no problem refering to Allah with the word ma (ما).

It follows that the word ma can refer to a person as well as a thing.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 am
by Aksel Ankersen
Myxtic wrote:
021.098
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.


doesnt this 'what' (ma in Arabic) refer to the non-living things ... ??

All sorts of non-living things are destined to hell (as well as living entities, as per my last post).

The countless billions of stars for instance; some people worship them or at least worship the sun, our star.

Are the stars going to burn in hell?

This verse strikes me as very awkward and badly written.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:25 pm
by fudgy
^Thats nothing, I am not worried about that.

come on ppl C&C, context and common sense. In 21:98, when God says that hell will be fueled by idolaters and their false gods, you have to try understand what this actually means. It doesn't mean that if you worship angels they will be in hell too. It's talking about the false gods who purposely misled people and likes to be worshiped like the Pharaoh. You just have to read a little further to see what this verse actually means
"Surely (as for) those for whom the good has already gone forth from Us, they shall be kept far off from it;" (21:101). i.e. if you worship any prophets, angels, etc and they do not desire that you worship them then they are not counted in 21:98. I'm no expert in Arabic and due to its complexity and multipurpose meanings it's going to take more than a "word" to prove a contradiction 100% accurately.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:40 pm
by zulbrain
fudgy wrote:^Thats nothing, I am not worried about that.

come on ppl C&C, context and common sense. In 21:98, when God says that hell will be fueled by idolaters and their false gods, you have to try understand what this actually means. It doesn't mean that if you worship angels they will be in hell too. It's talking about the false gods who purposely misled people and likes to be worshiped like the Pharaoh. You just have to read a little further to see what this verse actually means
"Surely (as for) those for whom the good has already gone forth from Us, they shall be kept far off from it;" (21:101). i.e. if you worship any prophets, angels, etc and they do not desire that you worship them then they are not counted in 21:98. I'm no expert in Arabic and due to its complexity and multipurpose meanings it's going to take more than a "word" to prove a contradiction 100% accurately.


Salam, fudgy

You explaine dsowell without any arabic. Precise and to the point. Tahnks

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:55 pm
by Cassie
myxtic wrote:verse 3:7 says some of he verses in the Quran are allegorical ...

whereas verse 16:103 says that the language in the Quran is not foreign but obviously Arabic ...

No, the contradiction exists because 16-103 says the Quran is in CLEAR Arabic. You 'treacherously' (to paraphrase you) ignored the word CLEAR.


myxtic wrote:yeah verse 3:20 says that Prophet Muhammad's duty is to deliver the message ...

but what about those who tribulated the delivery of the message (Islam) with utmost toil ... ??

I think you misused the word 'tribulated'.

Also, you 'treacherously' (to paraphrase you) ignored the word 'only'.

"You have NO duty EXCEPT DELIVERING the message." 42:48

"Your ONLY duty is delivering, we will call them to account." 13:40

"The messenger has NO function EXCEPT delivery of the message." 5:99


Delivering the stupid message does not involve murdering people and raiding caravans and enslaving little children.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:52 pm
by Myxtic
Zulbrain wrote:I am sure this satan will be trembling on his feet wehn he read your goodexplanation. he is a vbery confused man who is confusing otehr confused poeple. Instaed of tafris he should ahve read Quran in arbic. Tahnk you for the surgery on the pathological liar.


* bowZ *

thanxXx bro ... :)



Aksel Ankersen wrote:Hello Myxtic, just popped back in.


you are welcome ...



Aksel Ankersen wrote:Muhammad had no problem refering to Allah with the word ma (ما).

It follows that the word ma can refer to a person as well as a thing.


cmon Allah is not a person like the Christian Jesus-God :wink:




Aksel Ankersen wrote:All sorts of non-living things are destined to hell (as well as living entities, as per my last post).

The countless billions of stars for instance; some people worship them or at least worship the sun, our star.

Are the stars going to burn in hell?

This verse strikes me as very awkward and badly written.


fudgy already responded to that that in detail ...

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:04 pm
by Myxtic
Cassie wrote:No, the contradiction exists because 16-103 says the Quran is in CLEAR Arabic. You 'treacherously' (to paraphrase you) ignored the word CLEAR.


dont act blind ! :tongueout:

open your eyes & see how i've discussed clear,

by discussing the Arabic word 'mubeen' meaning clear/distinct/obvious





Cassie wrote:I think you misused the word 'tribulated'.

Also, you 'treacherously' (to paraphrase you) ignored the word 'only'.

"You have NO duty EXCEPT DELIVERING the message." 42:48

"Your ONLY duty is delivering, we will call them to account." 13:40

"The messenger has NO function EXCEPT delivery of the message." 5:99


Delivering the stupid message does not involve murdering people and raiding caravans and enslaving little children.


all those who fought the Prophet & hindered him from delivering the message were to be fought back ...

hence its clearly a part of the duty ... :)



thanxXx ..... !!

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:20 pm
by sum
Hello Myxtic

Your part quote -
all those who hindered him from delivering the message were to be fought back

Is this statement correct? Would just hindering the spread of the message of Islam require fighting to overcome the hindering?

sum

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:35 pm
by Cassie
Myxtic wrote:
Cassie wrote:No, the contradiction exists because 16-103 says the Quran is in CLEAR Arabic. You 'treacherously' (to paraphrase you) ignored the word CLEAR.


dont act blind ! :tongueout:

open your eyes & see how i've discussed clear,

by discussing the Arabic word 'mubeen' meaning clear/distinct/obvious

So why did you ignore the word mubeen in your statement above? It blows your argument, doesn't it?

Myxtic wrote:
Cassie wrote:I think you misused the word 'tribulated'.

Also, you 'treacherously' (to paraphrase you) ignored the word 'only'.

"You have NO duty EXCEPT DELIVERING the message." 42:48

"Your ONLY duty is delivering, we will call them to account." 13:40

"The messenger has NO function EXCEPT delivery of the message." 5:99


Delivering the stupid message does not involve murdering people and raiding caravans and enslaving little children.


all those who fought the Prophet & hindered him from delivering the message were to be fought back ...

hence its clearly a part of the duty ... :)



thanxXx ..... !!

The word ONLY precludes doing anything except deliver the message. When you deliver something, does it mean that you have to fight someone who won't accept what you deliver? You are barbaric man, and your barbarous thinking is obvious to all. How can you even think making little children into slaves is a good thing?

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:03 pm
by zulbrain
Cassie wrote:
The word ONLY precludes doing anything except deliver the message. When you deliver something, does it mean that you have to fight someone who won't accept what you deliver? You are barbaric man, and your barbarous thinking is obvious to all. How can you even think making little children into slaves is a good thing?


Can you try to be coherent? Cannot undertsand waht is your point. chuckle

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:13 am
by Myxtic
Sum wrote:Hello Myxtic


holaA Sum :)


Sum wrote:Your part quote -
all those who hindered him from delivering the message were to be fought back

Is this statement correct? Would just hindering the spread of the message of Islam require fighting to overcome the hindering?

sum


let me quote my statement once more :

all those who hindered him from delivering the message ...

were to be fought back

there's a lot of difference b/w 'fighting' and 'fighting back' :wink:

hence the 'hindrance' included 'fighting' as i have shown in the quotes from the Quran in the opening post ...




Cassie wrote:So why did you ignore the word mubeen in your statement above? It blows your argument, doesn't it?


bah ! when did i ignore it ... ?? :bashwall:




Cassie wrote:The word ONLY precludes doing anything except deliver the message. When you deliver something, does it mean that you have to fight someone who won't accept what you deliver? You are barbaric man, and your barbarous thinking is obvious to all. How can you even think making little children into slaves is a good thing?


see my reply above to Sum ...



thanxXx ... !!

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:15 am
by Cassie
Myxtic wrote:Cassie wrote:
So why did you ignore the word mubeen in your statement above? It blows your argument, doesn't it?

bah ! when did i ignore it ... ??

Yes you did. If you didn't ignore it, why was it missing in your first post? It blows your argument out of the water, doesn't it?

May I remind you what you wrote:
Myxtic wrote:verse 3:7 says some of he verses in the Quran are allegorical ...

whereas verse 16:103 says that the language in the Quran is not foreign but obviously Arabic ...

Where is the word 'CLEAR'?


Myxtic wrote:Cassie wrote:
The word ONLY precludes doing anything except deliver the message. When you deliver something, does it mean that you have to fight someone who won't accept what you deliver? You are barbaric man, and your barbarous thinking is obvious to all. How can you even think making little children into slaves is a good thing?

see my reply above to Sum ...

Which was rubbish because fighting is NOT delivering the message. Muhammad didn't fight back - how did little children get enslaved constitute fighting back? How did the Jews being genocided constitute fighting back?

The word is ONLY. It means delivering the message was the ONLY thing he was supposed to do. Not pedophilia. Not enslavement of children. Not genocide.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:14 am
by Myxtic
Cassie wrote:
Myxtic wrote:Cassie wrote:
So why did you ignore the word mubeen in your statement above? It blows your argument, doesn't it?

bah ! when did i ignore it ... ??


Yes you did. If you didn't ignore it, why was it missing in your first post? It blows your argument out of the water, doesn't it?


okieZ lets see then ... :wink:


Cassie wrote:May I remind you what you wrote:
Myxtic wrote:verse 3:7 says some of he verses in the Quran are allegorical ...

whereas verse 16:103 says that the language in the Quran is not foreign but obviously Arabic ...

Where is the word 'CLEAR'?


can you read English ... ??

if yes, then try again

let me repeat it for a dumb brain ...

i wrote:

"whereas verse 16:103 says that the language in the Quran is not foreign but obviously Arabic"


isnt 'obvious' a synonym for 'clear' !! :lotpot:



Cassie wrote:
Myxtic wrote:Cassie wrote:
The word ONLY precludes doing anything except deliver the message. When you deliver something, does it mean that you have to fight someone who won't accept what you deliver? You are barbaric man, and your barbarous thinking is obvious to all. How can you even think making little children into slaves is a good thing?

see my reply above to Sum ...

Which was rubbish because fighting is NOT delivering the message. Muhammad didn't fight back - how did little children get enslaved constitute fighting back? How did the Jews being genocided constitute fighting back?

The word is ONLY. It means delivering the message was the ONLY thing he was supposed to do. Not pedophilia. Not enslavement of children. Not genocide.


try to understand it this time, b/c i can not simplify it any further ... :)


Situation:

a guy 'A' has to convey a message to some people ...
(Quran 3:20)


Problem:

& in the way he meets some enemies who hinder his way & fight him ...
(Quran 8:15, 8:30, 8:36, 8:38, 8:56)


Solution:

since the duty of guy 'A' was to deliver the message ...

he will fight back the enemies to fulfill his duty ...




hence there's no contradiction in 3:20 & 8:39 as pointed out by Mr. Abul Kasem ...

thanxXx ... !!

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:48 pm
by sum
Hello Myxtic

Your post -
let me quote my statement once more :

all those who hindered him from delivering the message ...

were to be fought back

there's a lot of difference b/w 'fighting' and 'fighting back'

hence the 'hindrance' included 'fighting' as i have shown in the quotes from the Quran in the opening post ...


Your reply was a little "slippery". You have only included fighting as a means of hindrance but hindrance also includes other measures.

Suppose you came to my village of pagans to proselytise your Islam. As chief of my village I told you that you could not proselytise Islam to my pagan villagers who were very happy worshipping their individual gods. You would not be allowed into the village to cause mischief in my land. Would this be "hindrance" and require muslims to fight me and my villagers in order to proselytise your Islam?

sum

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:43 am
by Cassie
Obviously Arabic is not clear arabic. The former means it is not some other language. The latter means it is CLEAR.

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:46 pm
by Myxtic
Sum wrote:Your reply was a little "slippery". You have only included fighting as a means of hindrance but hindrance also includes other measures.

Suppose you came to my village of pagans to proselytise your Islam. As chief of my village I told you that you could not proselytise Islam to my pagan villagers who were very happy worshipping their individual gods. You would not be allowed into the village to cause mischief in my land. Would this be "hindrance" and require muslims to fight me and my villagers in order to proselytise your Islam?

sum


holaA Sum ... !! :)

i already stated that i didnt mention 'hindrance' as mere 'stopping'

but i mentioned 'hindrance' for stopping, fighting, battling, plotting to kill etc (Quran 8:15, 8:30, 8:36, 8:38, 8:56)




Cassie wrote:Obviously Arabic is not clear arabic. The former means it is not some other language. The latter means it is CLEAR.


& unfortunately for you 'mubeen' may be used for both clear or obvious :tongueout:



thanxXx ... !!

Re: Answering 'a guide to Quranic contradictions 2'

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:08 pm
by sum
Hello Myxtic

You are still not answering my question. I gave you a very specific question to which I expect a very specific answer that addresses my very specific question.

Here is my question again -
Suppose you came to my village of pagans to proselytise your Islam. As chief of my village I told you that you could not proselytise Islam to my pagan villagers who were very happy worshipping their individual gods. You would not be allowed into the village to cause mischief in my land. Would this be "hindrance" and require muslims to fight me and my villagers in order to proselytise your Islam?

Would you kindly address my question again?

sum