Muslims in daily situations.

Honour killing, human rights abuses of Muslims, poverty caused by Islam
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glitch
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Muslims in daily situations.

Post by glitch »

So, i'm in fact teaching several muslims in Community college. i invite anyone here to share their stories on dealing with them, but i'm going to tell you mine.

A muslim once told me that since it was Ramadan, he couldnt come to class because he didn't have the energy. I corrected him, almost immediately saying 'You eat at night. when the sun goes down. Am I wrong. " He seemed shocked and i smiles and said, "See you in class."

Muslim women work extremely hard and Muslims male students make excuses about working for their families after wschool. I useually respond with. "Asian students work for their families--they still get their homework done."

i thought i would share with some of you this semester, specifically what happened with one student.

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Hombre
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Hombre »

glitch,
In essence we are not talking about one holy book or another. Each of them teach their followers the mantra of exclusion from "others". Fundamentalist Jews, Christians, so Buddhist - all believe in them. "They are bad - we are good".

Mere Belief, is one thing - act on them with violence, that another matter. While, mainstreams in Judeo-Christianity (so-called Abrahamic religions) have had the intelligence to adapt various tenets in their respective religions to modern time - Muslims still stuck in 7th century dogma, dictated to them - rather in minuet details by an illiterate man who roamed the deserts of Arabia. Muhammad even prescribed how to bathe, wipe their rear end and which foot to use entering Mosque, home or the toilet. Absurdity has no bound.

As you know, Jews & Christians, each had practiced many rituals which today we have laws specifically prohibit these acts. Child marriage, Polygamy, stoning, or cutting limps for petty crimes or adultery, etc. same time we allow free speech - even on matters of religion and theology, Muslims prohibit any discussion of Muhamad's disgusting behaviour

The fundamentals between non-Muslims and Muslims is, while we do adhere to the 10-Commandments, and their derivatives - We no longer practice those rituals to maintain our standard of morals and civility.

Muslims still adhere to laws of 7th century desert life. Muhammad's grip and psychological effect on their daily life is so pervasive, such that, 1400 years later, even under anonymity of the Internet, they still shudder to the thought of criticising this man (except for brave men like iffo) .

One can't blame them, these poor souls have no choice - any discredit of Muhammad, has direct effect of credibility on Islam itself. Like a one-legged table. That explains the zeal & ferocity of their defence of Muhammad.

The result is Muslim have lowest average per-capita in almost every facet of life - yet they still think, they have much better quality of life then non-Muslims.

glitch
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by glitch »

Actually althought you seem to be really nice about your behavior, you're in fact wrong. No jew ever cut off a hand for theft and no christian ever did tht because that in fact is not what the bible says to do. I'm not going to nod and say, oh Abrahamic religions are wrong, because, 1, Islam is not an abrahamic religion.

Neither is Judiasm. if you want to be accusative you can say that its a moses religion, but the truth is, people like you want to lump Christianity and Judiasm in the same boat as Islam.

The fact we had people, kings and rulers misuse commandments in the bible, is unfortunate, but ultimately not my problem, nor the problem of judiasm or chritianity.

Unlike most weak-willed christians, a few of which I know, i'm not going to sit around while you and others say Islam is super bad, but Christianity and Judiasm were bad also in the past.

The Torah has no open eneded commands, nor a command for Jews to convert all to judiasm. The Gospels and other writings have no open ended command to kill unblievers... That's a fact and one i will defend to the death. The justice system of the Old Testement is in fact humane and i will discuss it at length. You have no evidence that christians or jews stoned adulterers. Christians nor jews aren't supposed to marry children and the majority of them have not done this, and christians pretty much as well as jews do not believe in polygamy, so i guess i'd like to ask can we move backwards to the real topic. Muslims seem to me to ask for passes on behavior all the time.

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manfred
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by manfred »

A muslim once told me that since it was Ramadan, he couldnt come to class because he didn't have the energy. I corrected him, almost immediately saying 'You eat at night. when the sun goes down. Am I wrong. " He seemed shocked and i smiles and said, "See you in class."
Next he will complain, if he gets bad grades, that you "discriminate" and are an "Islamophobe". You will be surprised how many Muslims get through college that way without ever doing are real work.

Also, if there are a few Muslims, they will organise and make a number of demands to get special treatment in college, such a a prayer room and halal food.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Fernando »

I don't know anything about male Muslim students - there were very few around in my day - but I do know a young Muslim woman who is doing very well at university while also working hard at home AND doing two part-time jobs.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

glitch
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by glitch »

Female muslims have no choice and truthfully female muslims are usually beautiful human beings--they have so much potentional until they grow older, then are forced into arranged marraiges and must submit to the will of muslim men or their brothers.

sum
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by sum »

Before I retired, I was on call one weekend when a call came in for a visit to a women with a sore throat. This was on a Saturday afternoon. I phoned her up to try and get an initial assessment and after speaking to her adult daughter it was arranged for her to attend surgery which I would open up for her. The time was agreed. I waited for about 20mns after the agreed time then phoned again to see why there was a delay. I was informed by the daughter that her mother had not finished praying and would come later.

At this point I decided that this was not an emergency and she would have to see her own doctor on the Monday. This was a muslim family.

sum

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Hombre
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Hombre »

glitch wrote:Actually althought you seem to be really nice about your behavior, you're in fact wrong. No jew ever cut off a hand for theft and no christian ever did tht because that in fact is not what the bible says to do. I'm not going to nod and say, oh Abrahamic religions are wrong, because, 1, Islam is not an abrahamic religion.

Neither is Judiasm. if you want to be accusative you can say that its a moses religion, but the truth is, people like you want to lump Christianity and Judiasm in the same boat as Islam.

The fact we had people, kings and rulers misuse commandments in the bible, is unfortunate, but ultimately not my problem, nor the problem of judiasm or chritianity.

Unlike most weak-willed christians, a few of which I know, i'm not going to sit around while you and others say Islam is super bad, but Christianity and Judiasm were bad also in the past.

The Torah has no open eneded commands, nor a command for Jews to convert all to judiasm. The Gospels and other writings have no open ended command to kill unblievers... That's a fact and one i will defend to the death. The justice system of the Old Testement is in fact humane and i will discuss it at length. You have no evidence that christians or jews stoned adulterers. Christians nor jews aren't supposed to marry children and the majority of them have not done this, and christians pretty much as well as jews do not believe in polygamy, so i guess i'd like to ask can we move backwards to the real topic. Muslims seem to me to ask for passes on behavior all the time.
Thanks for the reply. I have studies the Hebrew Bible in its original language of Hebrew & Aramaic. My comments about cutting limbs (or the lack thereof ) in Judaism, was meant as general comment, to highlight practices in Judea & Islam.

As for "Abrahmic" religion. Jews do believe Abraham had laid the foundations of Judaism - continued and developed by his next generation (Issac, Jacob with his 12 sons which led to the 12 tribes) . Later throughout history, each prophet or king, just added to what we know today "Judaism". Moshe was one of those prophets who had played a pivotal roll in shaping and transforming Jews, from disorganized slaves in foreign land, to well organized free and cohesive society, living in the own state under their own laws, based on newly received the famous 10 Commandments" as we know today.

After the destruction of Jews 2nd Temple in 70 ACE, they were force exiled from their country, (today's Israel). it was then, the HB was sealed & canonized. From 70 ACE until 1948, Jews ceased to exist as one homogenize and cohesive society. Later the Talmud was added to clarify many Jewish ritual. (a whole chapter by itself)

It happen such that Christians simply continued where Jews have left off. in one way or another, to Christians Jesus is considered as another messiah, like Eliyahu for Jews. The major common denominations between J & C is that, both believe and adhere to the 10 Commandments, which is the foundation of both religions.

Islam claim to share same belief in J & C prophets. Closer examination and scrutiny of Muhammad tactics to convert people to his religion, was that he simply borrowed few practices from other religions and incorporated them into his religion. The very reason Muslim boast of Islam's "universality". A clear con job.

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Hombre
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Hombre »

sum wrote:Before I retired, I was on call one weekend when a call came in for a visit to a women with a sore throat. This was on a Saturday afternoon. I phoned her up to try and get an initial assessment and after speaking to her adult daughter it was arranged for her to attend surgery which I would open up for her. The time was agreed. I waited for about 20mns after the agreed time then phoned again to see why there was a delay. I was informed by the daughter that her mother had not finished praying and would come later.

At this point I decided that this was not an emergency and she would have to see her own doctor on the Monday. This was a muslim family.

sum
simple explanation. To her you are infidel, whom she perceived inferior to her as a Muslim. Therefore, her time & her prayer is more important then your time. You will wait until SHE finished her prayer

You made the right decision to put her off and show where the dog is barried. Good for you.

glitch
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by glitch »

Most of what you're saying is true, but you're making sweepng genralizations. you do not in fact have a single instance of cutting off hands. for someone who knows so much about the bible you know very little about the practices of judaism.

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Fernando
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Fernando »

This may not be entirely on topic, but a couple of recent reports reflect Muslim daily life.
1) UK public exams are to have their dates or times changed for the next five years because Ramadan falls during the exam season. It is argued that the system is unfair to Muslims if they have been encouraged to starve and dehydrate themselves. Since exams test pupils on a chance day, when they might feel at their best or their worst, you could argue that sometimes Muslims are tested on days when they are starving and dehydrating themselves and sometimes when they're not. After all, when they've got their qualifications theyll be doing their jobs on days when they are starving and dehydrating themselves.
BTW these changes were apparently decided a year ago but news of them has only just slipped out.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... count.html
2) An article with a wider range is about the governmen't tendency to stop young Muslims from turning to terror by giving them more Islam, not more Western thoughts. It talks about the religion claiming to cover all aspects of life and complains about the unbalanced religious teaching.
Much of the support for a state-sponsored intensification of Muslim education is driven by communities that are split between Britain and South Asia. Religiosity is an important way for these communities to signal that they are not Anglicised, and that their children remain good marriage partners. These concerns, for the maintenance of family values in the face of a godless individualism or the fear of miscegenation with white neighbours, have driven the campaigns for sex-segregated education since the 1990s. Here religious institutions are an antidote for the migrant environment. The same kinds of concerns are active in the debate on extremism. If we claim that all that is good stems from religion, social issues among Muslims can be dealt with by making them more Muslim.

Yet the kind of education that goes on in most mosques does not offer an opportunity for social criticism. Imran Mogra describes the Deobandi curricula widely used in the UK as aiming to encourage ‘children to conform to divinely ordained patterns of behaviour’. A great deal of time is devoted to the correct pronunciation of Arabic for Qur’anic recitation, rather than to critical reflection on the texts. There is no opportunity to question, and no discussion of the contemporary world in textbooks that were composed in nineteenth century India.

‘Islam’ is often described in these curricula as a ‘complete way of life’. This is also a common statement in Muslim social media, especially in the sermons of popular preachers such as Zakir Naik. This assertion proclaims Islam’s superiority over other religions. It presents Islam as a total system, where political, social and religious questions are all interwoven, and all are answered in the Qur’an and sunna if one knows where to look. It also justifies the large amounts of time spent on the supplementary religious education of Muslim children.

Some believe that greater knowledge of Arabic and Islam would help young Muslim women fight unfair cultural practices that are unIslamic. But this approach equates ‘Islam’ with goodness: it doesn’t provide any voice against practices that are unfair but Islamic, and offers no space for ideas of the good that come from outside an Islamic tradition. And the religious instruction that is being advocated also prevents them from stepping outside the boundaries of a circumscribed tradition. Indeed, a belief in ‘Islam’ as a total system serves to differentiate Muslims from other citizens by denigrating non-Islamic sources of knowledge as sub-standard and not relevant to Muslims.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/philip ... e-religion
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

sum
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by sum »

This should not have been agreed. It is one more step in the creation of an Islamic environment. Will this be a precedence for future years?

sum

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Fernando
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Fernando »

sum wrote:This should not have been agreed. It is one more step in the creation of an Islamic environment. Will this be a precedence for future years?

sum
Apparently yes, for the next five years while Ramadan falls in the exam period.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by manfred »

This really is quite silly. A Muslim may suspend a fast for a good reason and do it a different time of even replace it with a payment to the mosque (yes, they never miss a trick...)

So if you have important exams what is stopping them? why not go the whole hog and simple give them a "Muslim pass" with even sitting the exam?

This is simply another little step towards more special treatments...

Suppose an exam for a student was scheduled on Yom Kippur, can a Jewish student insist he must be allowed to sit it a different day? If you are Jewish and work in a shop, can demand to go home before sunset every Friday and have every Saturday off?

Somehow only Muslims demand and often get all these special rights, why?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

sum
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by sum »

Hello manfred

Muslims get what they want because the powers that be are frightened of Islam and are totally inadequate to deal with these situations. Muslims perceive weakness and they are correct. Our politicians do not know how to cope with Islam. They are completely out of their depth.

Muslims are cohesive, focussed and resolute. Britain is not, especially our politicians. Most people are unaware of what Islam stands for and there is no way of educating the public in the various media.

sum

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manfred
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by manfred »

Yes, I totally agree.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Fernando »

I'm not so sure. Look at 9/11: what was the immediate reaction, at least in the UK? All the stops were pulled out to ensure that nobody even spoke an unkind word to a Muslim in the following days. This was not because the "Establishment" was afraid of the Saudi's driving a plane into Big Ben, it was because of the ingrained Leftish concern for "victims" - imagined, who might have been spoken to harshly, not the real ones who plunged to their deaths in the World Trade Centre.

When Leftish ideas first surfaced, they were opposed to near-feudal - actually feudal in Russia - circumstances. As humanity has progressed and these things have been left behind - in the West, at least - the Left has also been left behind and is perennially looking for victims. There are no children sweeping under looms or going up chimneys; no women pushing wagons out of mines; no (or very few) men degraded by wearing flunkies' uniforms and being pushed around by the Twit of the Year. So what can they do? They invent "multiculturalism" and import millions of people from the Third World who, instead of helping to integreate, they encourage to remain separate, preferably in low paid jobs so that they can patronise them and harvest their votes.
Everybody by now knows Labour's Andrew Neather of whom it was written
The strongest evidence for conspiracy comes from one of Labour’s own. Andrew Neather, a previously unheard-of speechwriter for Blair, Straw and Blunkett, popped up with an article in the Evening Standard in October 2009 which gave the game away.

Immigration, he wrote, ‘didn’t just happen; the deliberate policy of Ministers from late 2000…was to open up the UK to mass immigration’.

He was at the heart of policy in September 2001, drafting the landmark speech by the then Immigration Minister Barbara Roche, and he reported ‘coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended - even if this wasn’t its main purpose - to rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date’.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/pressArticle/83So the Left needs victims. Unfortunately, the Right also needs victims: there is a Twit of the Millennium, "Heir to Blair", aka David Cameron who would rather rule over a country enlarged by cheap immigrant labour than have the responsibility of managing a balanced economy with the mere 50 million or so indigenous people he had to start with.
Sorry, </rant>
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by manfred »

Yes, in effect this "inadequacy" sum speaks of seems to be rooted in the general left ideology sometimes labelled "cultural Marxism" ...


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Ibn Rushd
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Back in Oct 2001, I was attending a conference over a Friday and weekend, that coincided with a Physics test (not a final exam). I applied for a delay to do it the following week, before he handed it back, and there were 3 others who had to do that (for different reasons). Exam conflicts (only if they are the same time as an academic event) are treated with enormous respect, especially at the larger unis since with 10,000 exams to schedule, some might overlap in the same discipline, and certainly of different disciplines. To request a delay due to religion, I'm not sure if it would be allowed, as Canadian unis all say "don't book your holidays during exam period" because who knows when you will write. Sometimes they have 2 exams on Dec. 24!

I work at (and attending) a Catholic uni, which observes Easter Monday, so campus is closed, no classes. Naturally they don't schedule anything on it (or Good Friday). Sometimes it falls in March, others in April. If it falls in late-April, the exams merely extend into May (my 1st year ended on May 5). Semestres here go Sept-Dec, Jan-April. I believe in USA they are Oct-Jan, Feb/March-June. In Israel it's even weirder, starting in Nov to accomodate Yom Kippur happening before. But these are places/colleges that have that belief system already in it, and schedule around it. The state/education system should not accomodate others outside of the established religion, they have to figure something out. And as Manfred said, their own legal system gives them an out to break their fasts.
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Fernando
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Re: Muslims in daily situations.

Post by Fernando »

Thanks Manfred - you learn something every day. In this case, I rather wish I hadn't. It certainly explains a great deal about the modern Establishment. I thought it was just because so much of it had been populated by Blair in his 13 years but it seems the rot is a lot deeper than that. Can it ever be cured? Not by Cameron and his ilk, that's for sure.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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