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How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:51 am
by survivor
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/how ... ar-AA8aLls

On the morning of the shooting at Charlie Hebdo in Paris, Maclean’s contributor Scott Gilmore filed this column. In the Jan. 29 issue of the magazine, he expands on his argument:

On Jan. 7, Islamist gunmen ran through the offices of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo screaming “The Prophet is avenged!” By coincidence, at the very moment they were killing the journalists, the International Space Station passed silently over Paris.

Consider that for a moment.

As terrorists committed a primitive act of tribal savagery in the name of a prophet who lived 1,400 years ago, right above them, orbiting through space, was the most sophisticated expression of mankind’s ability to transcend ignorance and fear with hope and reason.

Twenty-five nations from around the world have come together to build the space station. They include old enemies who fought each other for centuries over God and gold, Cold War rivals, small countries and large. But none are Islamic nations.

It has become a cliché to point out that science and reason once flourished in the Islamic world. Nonetheless, it is true. While Europe stumbled through the Dark Ages, Islamic scholars made dramatic advances in every field of science including mathematics, optics and experimental physics. Our modern world was built on the scientific breakthroughs of Islam. From the eighth century, mathematicians such as Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī, who helped develop algebra, there is a direct line of progress that ends with the space station itself. But we no longer associate Islam with progress. In fact, a Muslim astronaut would surprise us as much as a non-Muslim terrorist (although there are many examples of each).

When the Parisian police siege ended on the blood-smeared floor of a kosher supermarket, the Prophet had not been avenged. He was diminished. This terrorist attack, and the others before it, merely isolated the Islamic world further from the global mainstream. In its aftermath, we and our leaders repeat, again and again, “Not all Muslims”—and yet we collectively treat Muslim nations as a threat that must be contained. Equal members of the global community? No. Partners in the space program? Impossible.

Related reading:10 essential reads on the Paris shooting

The Islamic world is in relative decline. Or, more precisely, a large number of countries with a Muslim majority are not developing as rapidly as the rest of the world, and in some cases, like Syria, they are even regressing.

This is a golden age for most. In the last 100 years life expectancy has more than doubled. In the last 50 years the poverty rate has fallen by 80 per cent. During that same time, the number of wars fell by a similar figure and the number of nations governed democratically tripled.

But, while the global community leapt forward, Islamic nations (as defined as members of the Organization of Islamic Co-operation) have progressed at a much slower pace. This is the case across a wide variety of metrics.

The Social Progress Index, a comprehensive measurement of a nation’s well-being, which includes everything from access to water to freedom of movement, ranks Islamic countries behind every other region in the world, including non-Muslim African countries. The Muslim world does even worse on Transparency International’s Perceptions of Corruption Index. Life expectancy numbers are among the world’s lowest, more than 15 years fewer than North America. And, not surprisingly, on a per capita basis, Muslim nations publish scientific papers at less than one-tenth the frequency of Europeans.

If we are surprised by these numbers, Najmuddin Shaikh is not. The former foreign secretary of Pakistan recently lamented, “The Islamic world is in disarray and decline and that Muslim communities find themselves under siege-like conditions in the West and elsewhere is perhaps an understatement.”

Why has the Muslim world been unable to keep pace? Why is it besieged? The easiest response is to say they did this to themselves. The evidence of this is so pervasive it is hard to refute. For example, just last week alone, while the world was focused on France, there were dozens of other terrorist attacks where Muslims killed Muslims.

In Yemen, a large group of young men were applying for entry into the police academy. They were queued up along a stone wall, which intensified the blast of a car bomb—33 died.

In Iraq, a wholesale market is held every Saturday morning in Baghdad’s western district of Baiyaa. There a bomb killed five. Later that morning another blast killed three more people in the nearby town of Madian.

In Lebanon, on the same day, a suicide bomber walked up to the crowded Omran Café in Tripoli and triggered his vest. Bloodied survivors were pulling themselves out of the rubble when a second bomber stepped in amongst them. There were nine dead and 37 injured.

In Pakistan, as people gathered to celebrate the Prophet’s birthday by distributing alms at a mosque in Rawalpindi, a bomber pushed his way in. The blast shattered all the nearby windows and killed seven.

In Nigeria, militants wrapped explosives around the midriff of a small 10-year old girl, and told her to walk into the market. When she reached the stalls where the chickens are sold, it went off, killing 19.

This is an incomplete list, from just last week, but it illustrates the broader story well. Internecine conflict in the Islamic world is endemic. The unrelenting Shia and Sunni schism dominates it, but it also includes tribal and ethnic divides. In 2013, there were 12 Western victims of terror attacks compared to 22,000 non-Western fatalities. These do not include those killed by the barrel bombs that Syrian President Assad dropped on his own people, or civilians killed by warfare in Afghanistan or Iraq. From the jungles of Sulawesi to the deserts of Libya, Muslims are killing Muslims at a rate that dwarfs the more highly publicized conflict with the West. In that light, it is hard to subscribe to the theory this is a clash of civilizations. Rather, it is one culture turning on itself.

The self-inflicted wounds are not always violent. The Taliban banned girls from being educated. In Syria, Islamic State closed all schools. In 2013, militants in Mali burned the fabled and ancient libraries of Timbuktu. In a speech just days before the Paris attacks, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi pleaded for an end to this self-destruction: “The Islamic world is being torn, it is being destroyed, it is being lost. And it is being lost by our own hands.”

Focusing just on the violence does not take into account the broader context, the economic and geographic circumstances in which these countries find themselves. The Maghreb (northwest Africa), the Arabian Peninsula, the Central Asia steppes, the Gulf of Guinea, the Indus valley, the Indonesian archipelago: each of these presents different but equally daunting barriers to building modern economies and functioning states. Whether it is drought or monsoons, a lack of harbours or impassible mountain ranges, the Islamic world was not dealt the best geographic hand.

It has faced economic hurdles, too. The international demand for heroin has created a lucrative but destructive poppy trade that the United States and all its allies could not even slow. Similarly, but perhaps less dramatically, the oil reserves of the Middle East and West Africa have been both a blessing and a curse, fuelling building booms, corruption and instability.

There are also the historical circumstances that must be acknowledged. The legacy of disastrous foreign intervention is everywhere. For hundreds of years the Dutch treated Indonesia as a warehouse, merely to be raided for its wealth, forestalling the evolution of local institutions. When independence came, dictators Sukarno and Suharto merely perfected what the Dutch had begun.

Bangladesh faced a similar colonial legacy, but one that was followed by partition and a brutal civil war. The elites who emerged redefined corruption, and it is difficult to judge which has done more damage: the typhoons or the politicians.

Related reading by Scott Gilmore:Heightened security only increases our fears

Further west, the arbitrarily drawn Durand Line was established in the 19th century to separate Pakistan and Afghanistan by cutting right through the Pashtun homeland. This colonial relic has remained a festering wound that makes both countries virtually ungovernable.

A similar exercise produced a comparable result in the Middle East. The secretly negotiated Sykes-Picot Agreement, creating spheres of influence for the Great Powers during the First World War, produced fractious borders and lit a bonfire of ethnic and sectarian violence that this week burned the Baiyaa market and the Omran Café.

Even recent history has been unkind to the Islamic world. The U.S.-led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan exploded into regional instability. repeated conflicts with Israel have drained meagre budgets from militaries who spend most of their time blaming Zionist conspiracies for the repressive chaos they themselves create at home.

When one considers the heavy weight of these extenuating circumstances, it is easier to see that the terrorism of the last 20 years is not the reason the Islamic world has been left behind. But it is perhaps the reason it is staying there.

Lockerbie. Embassies in Africa. Sept. 11. Subways in London. A memorial in Ottawa. A café in Sydney. A magazine in Paris. We have witnessed a steady series of attacks against the West. Some of these were large and well-organized conspiracies, others lone-wolf attacks by mentally unstable men with tenuous connections to Islam. But they had the same effect: to provoke a fear in the West that Islam is a threat, and the impression that the Muslim world is not a partner, but a challenge to be managed.

We, and our governments, don’t say this. In fact, we do all we can to make it appear otherwise. We talk about engagement and launch various initiatives to build “constructive dialogue.” These are just euphemisms.

President Barack Obama wanted to use the space program as a tool to engage the Islamic world. He instructed NASA to help Muslim nations “feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering.” In Canada, we reached out by, among other things, naming a special envoy to the Organization of Islamic Co-operation (OIC) and by sending its member countries over $12 billion in aid since 2002. During that same period, the United States sent $137 billion.

These efforts were not about expanding mutually beneficial relations with peers to create new opportunities. They were about preventing problems and neutralizing a threat. Most of our energy has gone into isolating, not engaging, the Islamic world. Compare, for example, what has been spent on intelligence, homeland security and military operations. Since 9/11, Canada tripled its spy budget and spent $18 billion sending troops to Afghanistan. The United States spent between $4 trillion and $6 trillion on military campaigns (including Iraq)—over 25 times more than they spent on engaging through aid.

With every act of terror, we push the Muslim world farther way. We launch more drones. We deploy more troops. We fortify more embassies. We watch more mosques. We accept fewer refugees. We issue fewer visas.

A passport from an Islamic nation is less welcome than one from any other region of the world. Citizens of the OIC enjoy visa-free travel to fewer countries than anyone else. This small fact tells a much larger story about the lack of interpersonal contact between Islamic nations and the rest of the world. It illustrates the fear that some of us feel when we see that the man boarding the flight ahead of us is wearing a shalwar kameez. It highlights the difficulty any of us have had bringing Muslim colleagues to international conferences, or transferring money to business partners in the Middle East. It makes us realize we can’t remember the last time someone talked about going to Egypt to see the pyramids. And it explains why last year less than two per cent of the visitors to Canada were from the Islamic world, despite those countries comprising 25 per cent of the world’s population.

It is not just the West. Russia, China, India: all the global powers have developed similar postures toward the Islamic world. Occasionally, although less frequently than the West, they talk about engagement. But really, like us, their strategy is primarily focused on containment.

The isolation also exists at the multilateral level. Only 19 per cent of global economies are not members of the World Trade Organization, but that short list is dominated by Islamic nations. The centrally important Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) has only one Islamic member: Turkey. Canada belongs to 207 international organizations. The average Islamic nation belongs to about half that, making them less connected and included than are European, Latin American, Caribbean and Asian countries.

Of course, it is not all containment. The international community does engage more constructively with some Islamic countries than with others. For example, while Malaysia is not a member of the International Space Station partnership, it did second an astronaut to Russia, who then sent him to the space station. Turkey is not only a member of the OECD, it is also part of NATO. (But is hard to imagine it being invited to join today, given that just this week the United States cancelled the transfer of two frigates to the Turkish navy, due to growing concerns about its Islamist tendencies.)

The United States and Canada are negotiating with Indonesia so that we can enter the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement. And Western oil companies are deeply entrenched in Saudi Arabia and Nigeria. But these exceptions prove the rule. Unless you are among the most moderate members of the OIC, or drowning in oil, the international community is not interested.

Ironically, this isolation may be what the extremists actually want. Many of the terrorist attacks were meant to drive a wedge between the Muslim world and the West, to eliminate the degenerate influences of the outside. They want to be left behind, or at least left alone.

Can we change this dynamic? Will we continue to pull back from the Muslim world? It is difficult to find signs that this pattern can be broken. Our economies now depend on trillion-dollar industries whose sole purpose is to protect us from the Islamist threat by building better body scanners and faster cruise missiles. Our own governments have restructured themselves as vigilant watchdogs, safeguarding us from terror. Even as the Paris attacks were still unfolding, the Canadian government was announcing even more anti-terror legislation. And our political institutions have been rewired, dramatically shifting the balance between our personal freedom and our collective security. All of this is intended to build blast-proof walls between us and them.

But perhaps, if we realize that with every terrorist attack our collective instincts to contain the Muslim world grows stronger, we can change this. It would take some patience and courage on our part, and a few leaps of faith, to increase the free flow of our peoples and in their wake, perhaps ideas and values. Of course, it would also require an effort on the part of Islamic nations to reach out, too. We can’t drag them into the OECD.

Terrorists like those who captured our attention in France are not responsible for the relative decline of the Islamic world, but they are prolonging its isolation. This attack and all the others before it have compelled the international community to instinctively respond by containing the threat. But this is merely palliative. As the Muslim world is further contained, it becomes further alienated from the global community, and it falls further behind. This trend must change. We must recognize that as mankind moves further into space, some of us are being left behind.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:55 pm
by Fernando
I've just noticed this thread.
I think there are two major factors in the current backwardness of Islam-dominated societies. The first is the tradition that Muslims must always do as they are told by higher authorities. Thus was Islam started by Mohammed and his gang of tyrannical marauders and followed up by emperors, caliphs, oligarchies and modern day dictators like Assad and Al-Baghdadi. This contrasts with the rest of the world slowly throwing off such chains.
Secondly, there was a deliberate turning inward from progress that put an end to the so-called "Golden Age". These points are illustrated in a couple of paragraphs
To understand this anti-rationalist movement, we once again turn our gaze back to the time of the Abbasid caliph al-Mamun. Al-Mamun picked up the pro-science torch lit by the second caliph, al-Mansur, and ran with it. He responded to a crisis of legitimacy by attempting to undermine traditionalist religious scholars while actively sponsoring a doctrine called Mu’tazilism that was deeply influenced by Greek rationalism, particularly Aristotelianism. To this end, he imposed an inquisition, under which those who refused to profess their allegiance to Mu’tazilism were punished by flogging, imprisonment, or beheading. But the caliphs who followed al-Mamun upheld the doctrine with less fervor, and within a few decades, adherence to it became a punishable offense. The backlash against Mu’tazilism was tremendously successful: by 885, a half century after al-Mamun’s death, it even became a crime to copy books of philosophy. The beginning of the de-Hellenization of Arabic high culture was underway. By the twelfth or thirteenth century, the influence of Mu’tazilism was nearly completely marginalized.

In its place arose the anti-rationalist Ash’ari school whose increasing dominance is linked to the decline of Arabic science. With the rise of the Ash’arites, the ethos in the Islamic world was increasingly opposed to original scholarship and any scientific inquiry that did not directly aid in religious regulation of private and public life. While the Mu’tazilites had contended that the Koran was created and so God’s purpose for man must be interpreted through reason, the Ash’arites believed the Koran to be coeval with God — and therefore unchallengeable. At the heart of Ash’ari metaphysics is the idea of occasionalism, a doctrine that denies natural causality. Put simply, it suggests natural necessity cannot exist because God’s will is completely free. Ash’arites believed that God is the only cause, so that the world is a series of discrete physical events each willed by God.
How's that for a tyrant, flogging and beheading for rejecting modernism? And how's that for religious maniacs, denying reality and pushing the Islamic world into denying it to this day?
But the fact is, Arab contributions to science became increasingly sporadic as the anti-rationalism sank in.

The Ash’ari view has endured to this day. Its most extreme form can be seen in some sects of Islamists. For example, Mohammed Yusuf, the late leader of a group called the Nigerian Taliban, explained why “Western education is a sin” by explaining its view on rain: “We believe it is a creation of God rather than an evaporation caused by the sun that condenses and becomes rain.” The Ash’ari view is also evident when Islamic leaders attribute natural disasters to God’s vengeance, as they did when they said that the 2010 eruption of Iceland’s Eyjafjallajökull volcano was the result of God’s anger at immodestly dressed women in Europe. Such inferences sound crazy to Western ears, but given their frequency in the Muslim world, they must sound at least a little less crazy to Muslims. As Robert R. Reilly argues in The Closing of the Muslim Mind (2010), “the fatal disconnect between the creator and the mind of his creature is the source of Sunni Islam’s most profound woes.”
Although I wouldn't put the last bit quite like that :sml: !http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:37 pm
by Hombre
The answer unfortunately is simple and straight forward. Mohammed taught his followers the art of nation building NOT through hard work and creative environment, as Greek, Roman and other empires did in their time. Rather, enrich themseves through aggression, loot and pillage of other people's work.

Just look at those massive monuments which previous empires had left behind., Ancient Egypt with pyramids, Chinese with explosive powder, the wall, silk and warfare tools, Persian with their magician cities,and coded laws. Rome with their massive engineering projects. By far the most contribution made, is ancient Greek, who's inventions in naval engineering, Democracy, architecture, philosophy & sport still celebrated today to such degree, letters in modern mathematics used are Roman & Greek Letters.Moreover, entire western world democracy is directly copied from the ancient Greece.

Beside grandiose and useless shrines to worship one man - what else Muslims have left behind which demonstrates their respective contribution to humanities. As for their bellicose claim of scientific contribution, I invite anyone read the sources from which those so-called "Islamic contributions" came from. Most of their Algebra and other scientific equations, originally were translated from Greek & Latin, then massaged into modern day ones. Little of their own creation.

Lots of claim with little substance. A fact shown with such disproportion (ratio of 26 to 1) of Noble Laureates between Jews & Muslims in scientific discoveries..

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:55 pm
by Fernando
Hombre wrote:I invite anyone read the sources from which those so-called "Islamic contributions" came from. Most of their Algebra and other scientific equations, originally were translated from Greek & Latin, then massaged into modern day ones. Little of their own creation.

Lots of claim with little substance. A fact shown with such disproportion (ratio of 26 to 1) of Noble Laureates between Jews & Muslims in scientific discoveries..
I quite agree but it's difficult to dig below the misrepresentations. Everything good done during the Muslim empire is attributed to Arabs or Muslims. i've read - but cannot locate the individual = that one of the major "Muslim" scientists was neither Arab nor Muslim but a slave of the Arabio=Islamic empire. The facts are out there but buried very deeply. Maybe further reading of Lewis and such will provide the detai but it will take time and possibly money if it's hidden in costlly academic texts. A pro[itable venture, perhaps, if a popular newspaper would serialise the work but improbable to say the least. Not that I'd demand any money for myself if i'd written it but the security no doubt comes expensive!

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:17 pm
by manfred
“We believe it is a creation of God rather than an evaporation caused by the sun that condenses and becomes rain.”


This statement is a perfect example of how poor education and fundamentalist indoctrination impedes understanding.

Almost all Christians and Jews have no difficulty in affirming creation as well as scientific facts, as indeed also some scientists do.

The fact that rain is caused by evaporation from the sun's heat does not in anyway suggest that any belief in creation is false. In fact there are also those who point at laws of nature as a trace of design. So, discovering connections in nature could be used in arguments in either direction. In the end nobody will ever be able to prove or disprove a belief using science, because religion is not based on nor dependent on science. So the idea that enquiry poses a threat to belief is about as silly as it can get. If we can discover the evidence that a belief is false, is that not a good thing? Then at least we can make corrections. Only those for whom a fake religion is a basis of power have something to fear from enquiry.

Islam does not allow text-critical examinations of the Qur'an, for fear of what would it do to Islam. An honest Muslim would say, good, bring it on, let's really try to work it out. If we find it is all true, Islam will be much stronger, and if we find it is false, we have been saved from wasting our lives on a lie. Only those who are too afraid to learn the truth will forbid people to look.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:00 pm
by Hombre
Who said Muslims did not contribute to our understanding of the universe?. Here is another nugget from that treasury. Watch this Muslim cleric's overinflated ego, self assured, and supreme confident with which he delivers the latest scientific discoveries.

It is the SUN which revolves around earth - not the other way.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:09 am
by manfred
Oh, the poor guy... it really seems that reason has departed from him completely.

The rotation of the earth has no influence on air traffic, because the plane, when taking off, is rotating exactly in the same way as the earth, because it was on the surface of the earth. As there is nothing to change this initial velocity, it simply stays as it is. The aircraft propulsion makes the plane either a little lower or faster than the rotation of the earth it started with, which is why the plane changes location. Suppose a plane takes off and travels due north. In reality it travels north, as propelled by the engines of the plane, plus it travels east at exactly the same rate as the earth rotates, so it is moving in a spiral. But because the earth also moves east at the same rate, this is not noticed, and it looks as if the plane simply goes north. (Well, it is slightly noticed, on long haul flights crossing the pole...)

I just wonder if this guy really does not know this or if he is trying to fool people with nonsense.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:36 am
by Hombre
on earth or above until 35000 km altitude, gravity still affects floating objects, and drags with earth rotation. which explains the plane not staying still.

The very reason that height is the ideal altitude to maintain satellites hanging on same spot, because sphere of gravity is near it end. All lower satellites orbit the earth few times a days during 24 hours.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:25 pm
by ISLAM_rules
It is you who are left behind confusing your science with knowledge. You attach yourself to this words when you need to see beyond. A few years here, and then eternity. That is when YOU will be left behind.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:47 am
by Fernando
Reading further down the article I quoted above, i came across this interesting bit
In its place arose the anti-rationalist Ash’ari school whose increasing dominance is linked to the decline of Arabic science. With the rise of the Ash’arites, the ethos in the Islamic world was increasingly opposed to original scholarship and any scientific inquiry that did not directly aid in religious regulation of private and public life. While the Mu’tazilites had contended that the Koran was created and so God’s purpose for man must be interpreted through reason, the Ash’arites believed the Koran to be coeval with God — and therefore unchallengeable. At the heart of Ash’ari metaphysics is the idea of occasionalism, a doctrine that denies natural causality. Put simply, it suggests natural necessity cannot exist because God’s will is completely free. Ash’arites believed that God is the only cause, so that the world is a series of discrete physical events each willed by God.

As Maimonides described it in The Guide for the Perplexed, this view sees natural things that appear to be permanent as merely following habit. Heat follows fire and hunger follows lack of food as a matter of habit, not necessity, “just as the king generally rides on horseback through the streets of the city, and is never found departing from this habit; but reason does not find it impossible that he should walk on foot through the place.” According to the occasionalist view, tomorrow coldness might follow fire, and satiety might follow lack of food.
Apart from the laughable lunacy of fire causing cold and starvation causing satiety, I was intrigued by this bit. Requoting,
While the Mu’tazilites had contended that the Koran was created and so God’s purpose for man must be interpreted through reason, the Ash’arites believed the Koran to be coeval with God — and therefore unchallengeable.
So there was a time when Muslims considered that the Koran was an ordinary book, not the mystical thing they think it is today. So; I wonder who they thought wrote it?

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:01 pm
by frankie
ISLAM_rules wrote:It is you who are left behind confusing your science with knowledge. You attach yourself to this words when you need to see beyond. A few years here, and then eternity. That is when YOU will be left behind.


Islam rules:

Why should it concern you what happens to the infidel after he leaves this world, shouldn't you be more concerned what your god tells you, when it says "no compulsion in religion"?

The only "knowledge" Muslims need to know allegedly is held in the Quran, which is worse than no knowledge at all, as it is just a reflection of 7th century pagan Arabian tribal customs, consequently Muslims are permanently held in a retrograde faith, which demands the violent subjugation and/or death of anyone not willing to submit to its mythical gods rules.

And you are proud to be called a Muslim? :lol:

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:33 pm
by pr126
What Islam_rules means by knowledge (ilm) is knowledge of Islam / Quran only.
Everything else is bidah and not needed according to Muhammad.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:46 pm
by SAM
Islam 1400 years ago already civilization before today in terms of scientific, scholars such as astrology, medicine and a variety of worldly knowledge. For example Andalusia.

During that time Christian living in darkness who just know oppressive, killing, torturing Christians, and other.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:09 pm
by pr126
SAM wrote:
During that time Christian living in darkness who just know oppressive, killing, torturing Christians, and other.

And Muslims are doing the same to this very day.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:40 pm
by Fernando
SAM wrote:Islam 1400 years ago already civilization before today in terms of scientific, scholars such as astrology, medicine and a variety of worldly knowledge. For example Andalusia.
Dear old SAM, do stop to think before you write. 1400 years agi takes us back to 2015-1400=615AD. Your hero/idol died in 632. In 613 he was only 4 years into his ministry, still in Mecca being roundly reviled. Any marvellous Arabic science at that time must have come from the polytheists that Mohammed had only just left.

Anyway, here's a paragraph from near the end of that article. it goes a long way to summarising what's the matter with Islam - and even towards explaining the hopeless attitudes of some Muslims as shown on this forum.
There is a final reason why it makes little sense to exhort Muslims to their own past: while there are many things that the Islamic world lacks, pride in heritage is not one of them. What is needed in Islam is less self-pride and more self-criticism. Today, self-criticism in Islam is valued only insofar as it is made as an appeal to be more pious and less spiritually corrupt. And yet most criticism in the Muslim world is directed outward, at the West. This prejudice — what Fouad Ajami has called (referring to the Arab world) “a political tradition of belligerent self-pity” — is undoubtedly one of Islam’s biggest obstacles. It makes information that contradicts orthodox belief irrelevant, and it closes off debate about the nature and history of Islam.
Do read - or at least skim - the whole article - it's most enlightening. Although Enlightenment is what is needed by Muslims rather than wanted.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
PS:That Golden Age roughly spanned the eighth through the thirteenth centuries a.d. (ibid)

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:00 pm
by manfred
The so-called "golden period" was simply a time when the Muslim rulers felt a need to curb and control the "clergy". So, they encouraged, for a time, thinking and reading "outside the box". However, this was soon changed as it became clear even to the dumbest rulers that they need Islam to stay in power. So the study of mathematics, philosophy and science, eagerly embraced for a short time, became a crime just some 100 or so years later.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:28 pm
by SAM
President Obama proclaimed he was a student of history. He said that Islam "carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment," and praised the "innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed."

While Central Europe languished in the Dark Ages of ignorance, fear, obscurantism, moral decadence and superstition following the collapse of the Roman Empire in the 5th century :blahblah1:, it was the Islamic world that carried the torch of Classical civilization to a Europe finally stumbling out of the Dark Ages in the 15th century. :lol:

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:02 pm
by sum
Hello SAM

What happened to the "Classical civilisation" in the muslim world? How come it prospered in Europe but died in muslim lands.

Please explain.

sum

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:29 pm
by Fernando
SAM wrote:President Obama proclaimed he was a student of history.
Really? No mention of that in Wikipedia, just
Later in 1981, he transferred as a junior to Columbia College, Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialty in international relations[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
Nor is there any mention at http://www.biography.com/people/barack-obama-12782369#related-video-gallery
However, Google suggests a search on "barack obama studied history" but doesn't come up with any likely links. Urban myth or Muslim wishful thinking? You;ll have to learn, SAM, to check and think for yourself and not just parrot what you've been told - THAT'S what caused Islam's decline.

Re: How the Muslim world is being left behind

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:42 pm
by manfred
SAM wrote:President Obama proclaimed he was a student of history. He said that Islam "carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment," and praised the "innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed."

While Central Europe languished in the Dark Ages of ignorance, fear, obscurantism, moral decadence and superstition following the collapse of the Roman Empire in the 5th century :blahblah1:, it was the Islamic world that carried the torch of Classical civilization to a Europe finally stumbling out of the Dark Ages in the 15th century. :lol:


Well he needs to go back to school....

paving the way for Europe's Renaissance

The Renaissance was a movement in the Arts and also in philosophy based on CLASSICAL GREECE, not Islam.
"carried the light of learning through so many centuries"



Muslims have destroyed more of antiquity that they saved. On a small fraction of texts were preserved. And we should plaise them for not burning everything, just most of it?

developed the order of algebra

Algebra was used in ancient Babylon long before the Muslims. And the ONE Muslim who revived the idea was in effect a apostate.

our magnetic compass and tools of navigation


The compass was invented in CHINA about 200BC. The Astrolabe is a Greek invention.

our mastery of pens and printing


pens??? :lotpot: People have used pens long before Islam, in ancient Egypt, in China... And people could not write before Islam? How was the bible written then?

Printing??? Earliest printing in from China, long before Islam. Also, in India people printed Buddhist texts with block printers. The first Qur'an was printed in Venice 1537 with the same kind of printing press as used by Gutenberg in Germany, who printed the bible with it before. The mechanical printing press was in fact invented in Germany.

our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed."


The Arab/Muslim system of medicine is a mixture of various superstitions and Galen's work, taken from the Greek. Muslims, when sick, if they have money, come to get treated by the Kafirs. Those who do not, well, there is always camel urine.

So not a single thing in that statement is actually accurate.