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Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:53 am
by The Cat
AhmedBahgat wrote:Pussy Cat

I really don't care where the thread is, you are still dumb as dumber if you call the clear enemy of Islam Ali Sina to have Muslimness inside him, possibly what he has may be related more to the highly disadvataged Iranian people under their stupid governments

You failed to understand that Muslimness has little to do with being an enemy of Islam or not, being an apostate or not, but rather is a mental acquired disposition, a trait of character; a way of reacting & thinking through a distant but persistent screen of interpretations, formed in the very youth of -anyone-. A basic in psychology...

I don't know what you mean by ''the highly disadvantaged Iranian people' though. True, their actual silly binding government is Islamic. On this, I'd rather side with Ali or knowledgeable Iranians, anytime, than with you! See?
I'd never condemn a whole nation like you do. That's just another trait showing your own Muslimness... Thanks!

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:55 pm
by yeezevee
You failed to understand that Muslimness has little to do with being an enemy of Islam or not, being an apostate or not, but rather is a mental acquired disposition, a trait of character; a way of reacting & thinking through a distant but persistent screen of interpretations, formed in the very youth of -anyone-. A basic in psychology... say the Lion.. or the CAT.

The Question is What is Muslimness?? It is new word.. We should define it., How do you define that dear THE CAT??

Do we have grades and shades in MUSLIMNESS??
Can a guy like me who is closely related to Muslims has any Muslimness in me??
Can a guy like you who was never a Muslim has any Muslimness in you??

when you respond to AhmedBahgat with these words
Truth is that Muslimness makes people react like goons. Remember the Danish cartoon controversy? Your tone is bullying just like Ali's, so you're rather proving my point. Thanks...
because being a Muslim, he said " What a stupid thread by confused cat...Ali Sina clearly takes the stand of offending Islam and here is the goon cat telling us that Ali Sina has Muslimness in his blood,"

Did you show your Muslimness with those words?? .. even if it is in the range of ~...0.01%??

with best wishes
yeezevee

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:07 pm
by The Cat
yeezevee wrote:The Question is What is Muslimness?? It is new word.. We should define it., How do you define that dear THE CAT?? Do we have grades and shades in MUSLIMNESS??
Can a guy like me who is closely related to Muslims has any Muslimness in me?? Can a guy like you who was never a Muslim has any Muslimness in you??

with best wishes
yeezevee

Is there a common denominator to Muslims' frame of mind when answering here at FFI? I find out many and that's what I call Muslimness. It is showing throughout AB's bullying attitude, for example. In the specific case of Ali Sina, we read the same kind of overall dismissing to whomever disagree with his unquestionable certitudes.

Ali's Muslimness has been underlined many, many times by other posters through the years. See:
Ali Sina and Morality (by Eopithecus)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20343

Bob wrote:
Rants about the decadence of the West compose a typical Muslim leitmotif. Ali Sina's rants are no exception to the rule. (...) This is why I call Ali Sina a Muslim and it is not only to do with the 'defence of family values' or his homophobic rants.

ONE: Like Muslims, Ali Sina divides humanity into two camps, Muslims and 'the rest of humanity'. Just as we have the Umma, so we have Ali Sina's 'rest of humanity'. Both are fictions. The 'rest of humanity' does not form a homogeous bloc against the Ummah. If the 'rest of humanity' includes Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe and the Chinese and North Korean Communist dictatorships I would rather not be part of the 'rest of humanity'. The notion of 'the rest of humanity' is simply the symmetrical inversion of the concept of the Ummah.

TWO: Ali Sina prayed with a Mollah uncle and blithely mentioned it to a correspondent. Obviously he did not tell Uncle Mollah that he was an apostate and the founder of FFI. This is the typical behavior of an Iranian Shiah for whom taqqiya is second nature.

THREE: Ali Sina reckons that Muslims are subhumans and that it is easier to get along with crocodiles and scorpions than Muslims. This is more than reminiscent of the Muslim vocabulary, notably concerning Jews.

The vocabulary that Ali Sina uses to criticize Islam often has Islamic origins. He wrote an article on the main page saying it is necessary to 'humiliate Muslims'. A non-Muslim would not use such a vocabulary. We would say attack, criticize, neutralise etc , but the idea of humiliating one's opponent is very very Muslim. It is in the koran itself.

Much of what Ali Sina says about Islam I agree with. But he has an Œdipal relationship to Islam that non-Muslims do not have and which means that he becomes the symmetrical reflection of what he wants to destroy. As I have said, a glove with its fingers turned inside out is still the same glove.

Agaricus wrote:
I see you referring to Dr Ali Sina as merely "Sina". I do not know if he is a doctor, but his views on the "mental disorder" that is homosexuality make me doubt his PhD is from a medical background. But I suggest that a better and more reverential term for Dr Ali Sina, considering his recent pontifications about morality, should be "Imam Ali". It seems more appropriate.

These are just samples of the reactions to Ali's article: The Decline and Fall Of The West, which we're about to cover. There will be even much more in my following answer to Psycho Bunny's post which is quite detailed. You can also have a look at this very old thread (2004):

Does Islam cause real physical damage in the human brain?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53459

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:10 am
by The Cat
Psycho Bunny wrote:I think that you made your points in the articles on the old forum. This is now becoming a bit like overkill. The old forum info has not been lost but please, once having made a point, there is no need to labour it.

Hi, Psycho Bunny! Did I?
My former thread intended to cover it all, as indicated in its opening post, but could as well been divided into separated (but related) threads, so to avoid interfering with the flow of comments. When the old forum has been frozen, with everything from the 12th December disappearing, then the second option became the -only- possibility. We now can find 'continued thread' all over this forum.

Then again, what I mean by Ali's Muslimness still is misunderstood, if we read some previous posts. It's showing by his no grey zone, everything being depicted in black or white, conformed (ummah-like) or plainly satanic, while throwing all bridges away, in his absolute certainty to state the only possible truth. His arrogance in entrenched certitudes displayed in blasting assertions, even when relying on muddy or shaky grounds; his obvious unfamiliarity with self-criticizing and overall disdain for whatsoever is liberal and democratic.

Now in this new forum Ali came out, not only endorsing whatever he wrote upon Obama, but reinforcing his views on morality, especially on the topic of homosexuality not being genetic but acquired, see:
viewtopic.php?p=2796#p2796
Thinking Obama is a good man is more stupid than believing in Islam. (...) How stupid that can be? Facts are out there but you don't want to know them. Yes liberalism is sickness of the mind. You stupid people will blow up the world and wil bring misery upon countless people. (...)

4- now I believe it is (homosexuality) a learned behaviour and a disorder, like overeating, obssessive compulsive disorder, etc. Anyone can get into it at any age and anyone can get out of it.
(...)
6- I was an ardent defender of democracy and now I think it is dangerous to allow foolish people decide their future.
1. Thinking Obama is a good man is more stupid than believing in Islam.
2. Liberalism is sickness of the mind.
3. Homosexuality is a learned behavior and a disorder one can get rid of.
4. It is dangerous to allow foolish people decide their -own- future since Democracy is flawed.

Although his positions on both morality and politics were utterly disproved in the old forum. On the first topic, See: The war for "family values" is contrary to our cause (by Wiking)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20296
from which I've quoted quite extensively in the first part (in the Internet limbo for a while).

He has been shown therein to rely upon the unscientific testimony of Yvette C. Schneider, who had no degree whatsoever in sociology or psychiatry to formulate such a statement. She was just a 'guilt-tripper' and a former lesbian promoting her own agenda. So Agaricus wrote:
she is reviewing some of the scientific papers available to prove a scientifically fallacious agenda. You are not being scientific and neither is she. The fact that science, which requires empirical data to prove something one way or another, has not proved homosexuality is genetic, but also has similarly not proved that homosexuality is not genetic, is not a SCIENTIFIC justification to say that homosexuality is a learned behaviour.

Your reasoning in your article would pass muster in a debating society, but your causative relationship between what Schneider maintains (itself non-scientifically) and then your definitive statement that homosexuality IS a product of a learned behaviour is not science. (...)

Yvette Schneider and yourself are cherry-picking from scientific data, and inferring your own opinions onto the matter. It may work for you, but Schneider is not a credible scientist - she is an evangelist trying to use homosexuality to further her own ends. Science is science. It cannot be disputed when it is true science. But it sure as hell can be misquoted or distorted by the scientifically ignorant, to hoodwink others.

So we've seen in the opening post of this thread how Ali relied on the shaky ground of Sam Vaknin, a self-called 'doctor' to assert his then unquestionable -belief- that Barack Obama suffers from pathological narcisssism, thus his supporters were all to be branded as 'cultists' and 'worshipers', much like Jimmy Jones' followers. We'll soon see that his mental picture of the left is so based on opportunist prejudices, from some risible intellectual gymnastic out of mere impressions elevated to unchallengeable dogmas.

But there's even more to it now since Ali rejects Democracy itself:
viewtopic.php?p=2989#p2989
'Liberalism is a mental disease" is a hyperbole to make a point, much like saying, Muslims are not humans. These are not technical statements but expressions of a state of mind that in one case foolish and in other case insane and inhumane.

As for finding facts I am just as meticulous about anything, Islam or not! I studied and investigated the facts to come to my conclusions about homosexuality, UFOs or other beliefs. I will change them the moment I find evidence disproves what I believe to be true. Those who oppose me on any subjet often don’t know the facts and speak from the position of ignorance of the subject that they are defending. (...)

You laughed at a good woman like Palin Just because she was religious and believed in God. The Media slandered her. This is fascism and the idiot masses of liberals allowed all that to happen and like fools participated in the fraud that was being played on them and rejoiced being bamboozled. If this is not stupidity what is? Siding with an evil man just because he is atheist and mocking a good woman just because she believes in God. Is there any stupidity bigger than this?

All Obama’s allies and friends are the worst scum in the world and his foolish worshipers are so gullible that they think he is the Messiah. How pathetic! Stupid people cannot decide what is good for them. That is why Democracy is flawed. All my life I was a staunch advocate for democracy and thought Plato and Aristotle were wrong on this point. Now I see I was wrong and those wise man knew what I did not know. They knew that masses are stupid and stupid people can be dangerous even to themselves. They were proven right time and gain during every revolution.

1. ''Liberalism is a mental disease'' such is 'just' a hyperbole to underline how people can be foolish.
2. He did investigate -the facts- to come to his conclusion that homosexuality is acquired rather than genetic.
3. Those who object speak from a position of ignorance since he has been 'meticulous'.
4. Palin was laughed at because... she believed in God, and that's... fascistic.
5. People are siding with Obama because... he's an atheist.
6. Obama's allies are the worst scum in the world and foolish worshipers.
7. Thus Democracy is flawed since people do not know what's good for them.

All his statements above underlines Ali's Muslimness, how the Islamic frame of thinking never left him...

Nowadays to reject Democracy, like Ali does, is only equaled in Islam, Fascism, and far-left Commies! In the West we know that Plato's and Aristotle's societies were based upon slavery, that their notions of a Republic was rather Utopian since they didn't have the slightest idea of our modern State affairs, overall liberalism, of social democracy nor of Keynesian economics (among so many others).

We'll explore furthermore Ali's -beliefs- through the promised second half of this part based on his long article: The Decline And Fall Of The West.

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:34 am
by Ariel
Dear The Cat.
I have liked you very much and hold you in high esteem, but now I think you should stop.
Enough is enough. You have made your point.
It is not Ali who we are fighting at this forum, but we are fighting Islam.
Please do me a favour. Stop fighting Ali, and please become the old friendly Cat we all loved so much.

Regards.
Ariel.

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:42 am
by The Cat
ariel wrote:Dear The Cat.
I have liked you very much and hold you in high esteem, but now I think you should stop.
Enough is enough. You have made your point.
It is not Ali who we are fighting at this forum, but we are fighting Islam.
Please do me a favour. Stop fighting Ali, and please become the old friendly Cat we all loved so much.

Regards.
Ariel.

Ok, dear Ariel. If (and only if) my point is not contested anymore, I'll stop right here.
You've got a friendly deal since I've long prepared myself for this task...

But Ali attacking liberal values and democracy might find me answering back, elsewhere that is.

Take care
The Cat :wink:

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:12 am
by apostasyrus
The Cat wrote: -----snip ----. If (and only if) my point is not contested anymore, I'll stop right here.
You've got a friendly deal since I've long prepared myself for this task...
The Cat :wink:


I contest :D

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:49 am
by The Cat
apostasyrus wrote:
The Cat wrote: -----snip ----. If (and only if) my point is not contested anymore, I'll stop right here.
You've got a friendly deal since I've long prepared myself for this task...
The Cat


I contest :D

:roflmao: :roflmao:


Part One of this thread is now available at:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60738

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:48 pm
by mrcommonsensenow
ariel wrote:Dear The Cat.
I have liked you very much and hold you in high esteem, but now I think you should stop.
Enough is enough. You have made your point.
It is not Ali who we are fighting at this forum, but we are fighting Islam.
Please do me a favour. Stop fighting Ali, and please become the old friendly Cat we all loved so much.

Regards.
Ariel.


Are you sure it’s Islam we need to fight? Ali has denounced Islam but it’s clear this did not help his good sense. What’s the point of getting Muslims to leave Islam if they are unfamiliar with the mental processes of discernment, analysis and evaluation? Like Ali, they will simply enbarce another form of extremisim that provides an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all.

I think fighting things like ignorance, greed, and arrogance would be a lot more productive. :)

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:22 am
by The Cat
mrcommonsensenow wrote:Are you sure it’s Islam we need to fight? Ali has denounced Islam but it’s clear this did not help his good sense. What’s the point of getting Muslims to leave Islam if they are unfamiliar with the mental processes of discernment, analysis and evaluation? Like Ali, they will simply enbarce another form of extremisim that provides an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all.

I think fighting things like ignorance, greed, and arrogance would be a lot more productive. :)

Islam is bound to implode from many different perspectives, many of them aren't even related to any Western treat at all. Its inner contradictions leading to irreconcilable sectarian bloody hatred. This trend is multiplied more and more as time goes by. Then we have the Enlightenment Revolution, which is only retarded by its fundamental totalitarian compound. A secular Islam (as in Turkey) is not an easy task to draw from inception, like it has been in Christianity (give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, etc). We should help giving it a voice...

I once held Ali Sina to be the Islamic Voltaire. But I'm afraid there's too much Islam left in him to help defining a secular Islam. For this purpose an overall -liberal- attitude must prevail to trigger Enlightenment as in the West. Without it, Ali is merely exchanging one extreme for yet a similar one... much to my chagrin!

So dear Ariel wrote: ''It is not Ali who we are fighting at this forum, but we are fighting Islam. Please do me a favour. Stop fighting Ali.'' Well, it's the Islam in Ali I was fighting, as the truer enemy of Islam is -liberalism-.

Ibn Warraq wrote: ''The final battle will not necessarily be between Islam and the West, but between those who value freedom and those who do not.'' We all should ponder over such a reflection...

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:20 pm
by yeezevee
Ali is merely exchanging one extreme for yet a similar one... much to my chagrin! .. says the cat
So what is that "OTHER EXTREME" that is Ali is in now dear the CAT??? What is the proper name for that dear the cat? would you call that also "ISLAM" or extreme Islam??

Show me some of YOUR MUSLIMNESS dear the cat.. the Lion..

with best
yeezevee

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:41 pm
by charleslemartel
mrcommonsensenow wrote:
ariel wrote:Dear The Cat.
I have liked you very much and hold you in high esteem, but now I think you should stop.
Enough is enough. You have made your point.
It is not Ali who we are fighting at this forum, but we are fighting Islam.
Please do me a favour. Stop fighting Ali, and please become the old friendly Cat we all loved so much.

Regards.
Ariel.


Are you sure it’s Islam we need to fight? Ali has denounced Islam but it’s clear this did not help his good sense. What’s the point of getting Muslims to leave Islam if they are unfamiliar with the mental processes of discernment, analysis and evaluation? Like Ali, they will simply enbarce another form of extremisim that provides an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all.

I think fighting things like ignorance, greed, and arrogance would be a lot more productive. :)


The major point of getting Muslims to leave Islam is that it means "one jihadi less" on this earth who could blow you and your family along with himself.

Fighting things like ignorance, greed and arrogance might be more productive, but fighting Islam tries to ensure your peaceful existence.

Re: Ali Sina's Muslimness in quotes: Part II

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:56 pm
by mrcommonsensenow
Most terrorists are created when they are socialized from youth to believe that violence is an acceptable means for achieving political goals. Now, before you respond with, “That’s what Islam teaches”, let’s not forget it was NON-MUSLIMS that wrote the book on modern terrorism. Organizations like Al Qaeda, FARC, and Aum, owe much of what they know about terrorism to the I.R.A., not Islam.

Anyone that thinks Muslims have a monopoly on terror and savagery should watch The History Channel documentary called “BLOOD DIAMONDS”.

Thank God cars don’t run on diamonds. :heh: