Euro 2012: I want to be an England fan and a Muslim. But...

[Ariel]

These kind of stories make my blood boil. Go home to your Islamic Pakistan mr Choudry . No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you, you have to stay in England to be provoked and deeply humiliated.
My God....St George didn't have anything at all to do with the crusades, being that he lived nearly a thousand years before they took place, and in fact several hundred years before Islam existed..

Euro 2012: I want to be an England fan and a Muslim. Why's that so hard?

England football fans dressing up as Christian knights from the Crusades doesn't endear Muslims to the cause

As England play their first games of Euro 2012, I'd like to be an England fan. But even though I'm English, it's hard.

For a start, as a British Muslim, I am unsettled by the sight of England supporters dressed as Christian knights and jovially waving Crusader shields at the European championships in Poland and Ukraine. Footage of last night's cagey opener with France was interspersed with close-ups of young men dressed in the armour of Knights Templar hordes. There's an irony in the fact that images of Polish supporters chanting antisemitic slogans and giving Nazi salutes have been met with such deserved outrage, but to brandish a sword and recall the brutal and bloody invasion of Muslim lands is portrayed as harmless banter.

There is an obvious difference of course. I don't for a second believe that those dressed as Christian knights do so to offend Muslims – I hope not, anyway – whereas there is obvious menace in the sickening behaviour by neo-Nazis. But this doesn't make it any less disturbing an image for the Muslims in this country and around the world.

The Crusades are romanticised in the west as heroic battles to win back the holy lands in the name of Christianity. But for Muslims they are remembered as two centuries of brutal and unprovoked attacks on Arab lands. To celebrate this in fancy dress recalls a bloody and divisive chapter in Muslim-Christian relations. That may not be the intention of those donning the fake chainmail and helmets but there's no denying it's a uniform of war that certainly doesn't instil a feeling of inclusiveness in me.

I wonder how England supporters would react to scenes at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar, were masses of Arab fans to dress up in Saladin turbans and brandish Saracen swords emblazoned with Qu'ranic verse. I'm not sure it would be seen as friendly high jinx.

As a British Asian, moreover, I find it very difficult to get behind Team England because I abhor the fact that it includes an individual facing criminal charges for racist abuse in the workplace. The fact that the accuser's brother is missing from the squad and hasn't been picked on merit makes me feel extremely uncomfortable about supporting my country. John Terry may be innocent until proven guilty, but he and his legal team forfeited an opportunity to clear his name by requesting a delay to the court case until after the tournament. If I was facing such serious charges, I would have been suspended pending trial. I find the FA's decision to strip him of the captaincy and yet allow him to play both inconsistent and disgraceful.

I've been among England supporters in the past and felt less than welcome. They've chanted various songs either in my presence or even in my direction. I particularly enjoy the pointed lyrics "You never had an empire!" – and I suppose I should be flattered that so many of my fellow countrymen would rather be of Pakistani origin than Turkish extraction.

It goes hand-in-hand with the jingoistic nationalism we're subjected to by certain sections of the press. Not for nothing is it called a campaign. On one level it's just plain xenophobia. On another level it's a handy reminder that we were at war with many of these beastly foreigners at one time or another, and we killed lots of them and came out on top. I say we, although I'm not entirely sure I want to be included in that number. And I guess the feeling's mutual.

Don't get me wrong, the John Terry issue is the obstacle for me in getting behind the England team. It genuinely offends me and it sends out a horrible message. It tells me that if I'm racially abused by someone at work who is seen as good at their job, I should keep my mouth shut. I am sure the whole Crusader-fancy-dress-thing is done in all innocence. But in the context of the English Defence League and their anti-Islam rhetoric it doesn't exactly fill me with patriotic fervour. It makes me feel Muslim, rather than English, and I'd much rather feel both.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

[Ozes]

Good you twat (at the crybaby writing the article). Now you know how we feel in our country watching you in your 6th century rags and tribal customs. The English have put up with a lot more then some youngsters dressing up in the outfits of Christian warriors.Happy to see England living up like this after all the abuse of the collaborative magistrates, armchair intellectuals, media and most of all the hatefilled Muslims.

God Bless the United Kingdom

[Ozes]

Sick of these liars. They only claim patriotism and integration when it suits them.

[paxi christi]

well then mr choudry.you want to support England.........

then firstly stop burning poppies,shouting islamic slogans during minutes silence for the dead,and talking about military sybolism what about the black flag of war you seem to show on your demonstrations.then stop the gang rapes of teenage English girls,get rid of all those smack dealers and most of all no islam/sharia . that makes me abhore muslims like this,they are Wayne Kerrs.


good post in the news paper listing what happened before the first crusade..and they have the cheek to say its the crusades..lefties and liberal think tanks and anti westerners better start to wake up there is a pressure building up within good people all over the world.it wont be long before they are over thrown and normality will come back,first things first,get rid of that pollitical correctness.

here is the post,hits the nail on the head about those lying muslims and those leftie who say its the crusader and western imperialism..it was them from the word go...................


Some historical events that preceded the First Crusade ...

AD 632 -- Muhammad’s death.

AD 635 -- Christian Damascas fell to invading Muslims.

AD 636 -- Christian Antioch fell to invading Muslims.

AD 638 -- Christian Jerusalem,and later Alexandria,fell to invading Muslims.

AD 650 -- Muslim armies reached Cilicia and Caesarea of Cappodocia. In the same period Muslim forces carried out raids on Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete and Sicily, carrying off thousands of Christian slaves.

AD 668 -- Muslim armies laid siege to Constantinople. They were repulsed.

AD 711 -- Muslim armies invaded Spain. By AD 715 they had conquered most of Spain.

AD 717 -- Muslim armies again laid siege to Constantinople. Again repulsed.

AD 732 -- Muslim armies invaded France. Charles Martel stopped them at Tours.

AD 792 -- The Muslim ruler of Spain, Hisham, called for a new invasion of France. An international Islamic crusade was assembled, and was repulsed by the French.

AD 827 -- Muslim warriors invaded Italy and Sicily, terrorised monks,and raped nuns. Sicily was held by Muslims until AD 1091.

AD 846 -- Muslim armies reached Rome, where they forced the Pope to pay them tribute.

AD 848 -- France was again invaded by Muslims. And again repulsed.

AD 1059 -- Pope Urban II launched the FIRST Crusade.

[Ozes]

Good overview Paxi. Naturally, this short list misses many, many assaults and battles waged against Europe by the Muslims hungry for slaves, carnage and loot.

I would add the victory of Odo the Great in the Battle of Toulouse in 721. He was the first to stop the Muslim onslaught in Europe.

[paxi christi]

this would not go down well with the muslims then,a classic track when i was a kid.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7fYVcg57Ak


btw.ozes.the picture at the top.the one i the middle looks like tommy robinson.from the EDL...

[enceladus]

The Crusades are romanticised in the west as heroic battles to win back the holy lands in the name of Christianity.

Uh.... that's because they were "heroic battles to win back the holy lands."

How can a land" be "won back" if it has not been TAKEN?
Answer that for me, Mr Choudry.
Was not Jerusalem taken by Caliph Umar in 638 A.D.?

The Muslims were on the rampage in North Africa and in the Middle East for centuries before the Crusades.

But for Muslims they are remembered as two centuries of brutal and unprovoked attacks on Arab lands.

"Brutal and unprovoked attacks"? That's "the pot calling the kettle black" there.
Those who felt the sword of Islam upon their necks know all about "brutal and unprovoked attacks". North Africa, Persia, India and elsewhere.

As for "Arab" lands - really?
The only true "Arab land" is Saudi Arabia itself.

As soon as the Muslims swept out of Arabia and into other countries, they became invaders, so the countries they invaded are really not "Arab lands" at all.
The Jews were in what is now Israel for millennia before Muslims came anywhere near it.
- enceladus

[Nazzim ibn Abu Talib]

The Crusades are romanticised in the west as heroic battles to win back the holy lands in the name of Christianity.

Uh.... that's because they were "heroic battles to win back the holy lands."

How can a land" be "won back" if it has not been TAKEN?
Answer that for me, Mr Choudry.
Was not Jerusalem taken by Caliph Umar in 638 A.D.?

The Muslims were on the rampage in North Africa and in the Middle East for centuries before the Crusades.

But for Muslims they are remembered as two centuries of brutal and unprovoked attacks on Arab lands.

"Brutal and unprovoked attacks"? That's "the pot calling the kettle black" there.
Those who felt the sword of Islam upon their necks know all about "brutal and unprovoked attacks". North Africa, Persia, India and elsewhere.

As for "Arab" lands - really?
The only true "Arab land" is Saudi Arabia itself.

As soon as the Muslims swept out of Arabia and into other countries, they became invaders, so the countries they invaded are really not "Arab lands" at all.
The Jews were in what is now Israel for millennia before Muslims came anywhere near it.
- enceladus

Muslims are very good at being hypocrites If I open an International chamber of hypocricy I'd get only Muslim employees. These kind of the muslims make verge on the point of being laughable. But the gullible westerners will never wake.