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Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:17 am
by paarsurrey
Trojan wrote: paarsurrey :...will never stop as long as he is ...believing that there is actually goodwill towards mankind in Islam


Hi friend

I am quite certain that there is a lot of goodwill for Islam in the West. Islam spread peacefully in the world in times of Muhammad. Later the radical and extremist did not present Quran/Islam/Muhammad in its true peaceful form as it truly was. With the advent of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908; coming as a subordinate successor under the Seal of Prophets- Muhammad , all the religions stand revived; especially the peaceful Islam. I am confident that the peaceful ,bright , rational, reasonable and logical arguments of Quran/Islam/Muhammad will convice the heart of the West.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:16 pm
by diotima64
paarsurrey wrote:
Trojan wrote: paarsurrey :...will never stop as long as he is ...believing that there is actually goodwill towards mankind in Islam


Hi friend

I am quite certain that there is a lot of goodwill for Islam in the West. Islam spread peacefully in the world in times of Muhammad. Later the radical and extremist did not present Quran/Islam/Muhammad in its true peaceful form as it truly was. With the advent of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908; coming as a subordinate successor under the Seal of Prophets- Muhammad , all the religions stand revived; especially the peaceful Islam. I am confident that the peaceful ,bright , rational, reasonable and logical arguments of Quran/Islam/Muhammad will convice the heart of the West.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


Islam spread PEACEFULLY in the times of mohammed?? LOOOL! Methinks you know even less about mohammedan history, than you do about Christianity.

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:51 pm
by yeezevee
paarsurrey wrote:
Islam spread peacefully in the world in times of Muhammad

dear paarsurrey either you are COMPLETELY INNOCENT or you are a thoroughly brain washed SILLY GUY.. please read Islamic history at this link.. http://forum.faithfreedom.org/forum/vie ... hp?t=15311

let me post a bit of it here right from the day Khadija(Ra) Prophet Muhammad's wife died and My man became Mr. PBUH(SODOM)
Chronological History of violent expansion of Islam Starting From Mr. Mohammad first wife Khadija's death..
7th Century (600-699) C.E. ISLAM

605: The Holy Prophet arbitrates in a dispute among the Quraish about the placing of the Black Stone in the Kaaba.
610: The first revelation in the cave at Mt. Hira. The Holy Prophet is commissioned as the Messenger of God.
613: Declaration at Mt. Sara inviting the general public to Islam.

614: Invitation to the Hashimites to accept Islam.
615: Persecution of the Muslims by the Quraish. A party of Muslims leaves for Abyssinia.
616: Second Hijrah to Abysinnia.
617: Social boycott of the Hashimites and the Holy Prophet by the Quraish. The Hashimites are shut up in a glen outside Makkah.
619: Lifting of the boycott. Deaths of Abu Talib and Hadrat Khadija. Year of sorrow.


We must realize until this time Mr. Mohammad and his Islam is nothing but a local feudal class fighting with each other for power with in couple of towns. Hardly couple of 100 people fit for nothing bums followed this man. His REAL ISLAM started after the death of his first wife Khadija.

620: Journey to Taif. Ascension to the heavens.
621: First pledge at Aqaba.
622: Second pledge at Aqaba. The Holy Prophet and the Muslims migrate to Yathrib.
623: Nakhla expedition.
624: Battle of Badr. Expulsion of the Bani Qainuqa Jews from Madina.
625: Battle of Uhud. Massacre of 70 Muslims at Bir Mauna. Expulsion of Banu Nadir Jews from Madina. Second expedition of Badr.
626: Expedition of Banu Mustaliq.
627: Battle of the Trench. Expulsion of Banu Quraiza Jews.
628: Truce of Hudaibiya. Expedition to Khyber. The Holy Prophet addresses letters to various heads of states.
629: The Holy Prophet performs the pilgrimage at Makkah. Expedition to Muta (Romans).
630: Conquest of Makkah. Battles of Hunsin, Auras, and Taif.
631: Expedition to Tabuk. Year of Deputations.

632: Farewell pilgrimage at Makkah.
632: Death of the Holy Prophet.Election of Hadrat Abu Bakr as the Caliph. Usamah leads expedition to Syria. Battles of Zu Qissa and Abraq. Battles of Buzakha, Zafar and Naqra. Campaigns against Bani Tamim and Musailima, the Liar.


so dear paarsurrey all the above Expeditions, wars, raids were carried by Mr. Muhammad and his Bedouin Baboon buddies in the last 13 years of his Islam and the Surahs that are reveled in these last 13 years are NOTHING BUT BRUTAL & CRIMINAL .. The Surahs you have in Quran in the first 10 years of his life are nothing but stories from Pagan/Christian/Jewish religious theology that was there around Mecca

So please don't fool people with stupid statements in FFI., you can do that in Islamic forums.. Indeed people like you FOOL THEMSELVES AND FOOL OTHERS

you should read some books other than Ahamadiyya silly Islam here read him

http://islam-watch.org/Assets/Anwar.JPG
Anwar Shaikh

http://islam-watch.org/AnwarSheikh/index.html

with best regards
yeezevee

Quran, Sunnah and Hadith

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:49 am
by paarsurrey
Hi friends

The Muslims have three sources for establishing themselves on Islamic guidance.

1. First, the Holy Quran which is the Book of God than which we have no more conclusive and certain statement. It is the Word of God and is free from all doubt and speculation.

2. Secondly, the practice of the Holy Prophet, which is called Sunnah.We do not regard hadeeth and sunnah as one.
They are distinct, hadeeth is one thing and sunnah is another. By sunnah we mean the practice of the Holy Prophet, to which he adhered and which appeared along with the Holy Quran and will accompany it. In other words, the Holy Quran is the Word of God Almighty and the sunnah is the action of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him.

It has ever been the way of God that the Prophets bring the Word of God for the guidance of people and illustrate it in practice with their conduct so that no doubt should remain in the minds of people with regard to the Divine Word. They act upon it and urge others to do the same.

3. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:22 am
by ThereIs1Adonai
Paarsurrey,

Your first post premise in this thread concerning the preaching of the Gospel to all nations is false. Even Christian missionary organizations recognize several nations/areas that have not yet been reached with the Gospel message. And some of those are because people like oh.... Muslims (although not the only ones) kill, imprison, torture and/or deport Christians who preach the Gospel. We in Christendom do expect that before Christ returns every nation must be fully reached with the Gospel. And to that end, organizations work very hard to make that happen.

It is interesting that you speak of the 2nd coming of the Christ, and not the first. If the prophecies of the first coming were indeed fulfilled in Jesus Christ, there may be a problem with belief in Islam. It strikes me that when you "researched" the prophecies you chose one that did not contradict Islam and did not give fair evaluation to others because they contradict Islam.

Since you are willing to research some of these things, may I recommend an excellent scholarly work that is well referenced with both Biblical and secular history concerning Jesus Christ: Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. There is more than one volume, and it is a lengthy read but well worth an honest look.

Peace, Shalom <------ but not at all cost.

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:13 am
by John Monash
Adopting the inimitable style of Paarsurrey (lover of "Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Qu'ran, thanks"), permit me to start with Paarsurrey's typical soft shoe shuffle, Hi Friends.

Nothing personal, dear amiable Paarsurrey the literary rambler and veritable master in avoiding direct questions, but why haven't you informed the long-suffering forum members of FFI that your most beloved messiah, Ghulam Ahmad is also the reincarnation of several historical notables and at least one mythological non-entity.

Hi friends, and Paarsurrey (lover of "Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Qu'ran, thanks"), please read the following extract from Encyclopaedia Britannica. (emphasis mine)

Ahmadiyah a modern Islamic sect and the generic name for various Sufi (Muslim mystic) orders. The sect was founded in Qadian, the Punjab, India, in 1889 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (c. 1839-1908), who claimed to be the mahdi (a figure expected by some Muslims at the end of the world), the Christian Messiah, an incarnation of the Hindu god Krishna, and a reappearance (buruz) of Muhammad. The sect's doctrine, in some aspects, is unorthodox: for example, it is believed that Jesus feigned death and resurrection but in actuality escaped to India, where he died at the age of 120; also, jihad ("holy war") is reinterpreted as a battle against unbelievers to be waged by peaceful methods rather than by violent military means.
On the death of the founder, Mawlawi Nur-ad-Din was elected by the community as khalifah ("successor"). In 1914, when he died, the Ahmadiyah split, the original, Qadiani, group recognizing Ghulam Ahmad as prophet (nabi) and his son Hadrat Mirza Bashir-ad-Din Mahmud Ahmad (b. 1889) as the second caliph, the new Lahore society accepting Ghulam Ahmad only as a reformer (mujaddid).

Copyright © 1994-2001 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

Ghulam Ahmad claimed not only that he was the mahdi (a promised Muslim "saviour") and a reappearance (buruz) of the Prophet Muhammad but also that he was Jesus Christ and the Hindu god Krishna returned to Earth[/color]. A number of his rather unorthodox teachings were incorporated into the beliefs of the Ahmadiyah. While he made an attempt to copy the centralized missionary organizations and schools of the Christians, he had little interest in reconciling Christian and Muslim religious doctrine and evidently wanted only to be more effective in his struggle to supplant Western influences. Despite the vagueness of his purpose, he was an effective leader and gathered a cohesive body of disciples. After his death, his followers disputed whether he really claimed to be a prophet and if so what he meant by his prophethood. Nonetheless, his devotees formed a community of believers and elected a khalifah (caliph) to lead them.
Copyright © 1994-2001 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.[/


Hi friends, as you can see, beloved Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the reincarnation Lord Jesus Christ, as well the Hindu Krishna.

So dear Paasurrey (lover of "Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Qu'ran, thanks"), who are you kidding with your Ahmadiyah claptrap.
First convince the Muslims before trying to convince the Kaffir. Even your "intelligent" comments are barely tolerable, in small doses

Give us a break, please,

PaarSurrey: Naturally it's too much to ask, and I don't expect you to reply, but where is your frequently-touted term "Jehovah" mentioned in the Qu'ran?
Remember, only Allah ("the best of deceivers" = Satan) is mentioned in this decrepit little book.

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:17 am
by paarsurrey
John Monash wrote:

beloved Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the reincarnation Lord Jesus Christ, as well the Hindu Krishna.


Hi friend John Monash

The Promised Messiah, Second Coming 1835-1908 never claimed to be the rebirth/reincarnation of anybody. Please quote from him if he has claimed to be reincarnation of anybody.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:38 am
by yeezevee
paarsurrey
Hi friend John Monash

The Promised Messiah, Second Coming 1835-1908 never claimed to be the rebirth/reincarnation of anybody. Please quote from him if he has claimed to be reincarnation of anybody.
forget what has been said about Promised Messiah in FFI forum but dear paarsurrey But ACCORDING TO YOU, what did my man Promised Messiah claimed dear paarsurrey??

Did Mr. Promised Messiah claim this??
The advent of The Holy Prophet sa is described metaphorically as the appearance of God Almighty. The Holy Prophet sa became the mirror reflecting Divine Attributes. He was Al- Abd. The Holy Quran calls him Abdullah (72:20) -- The Servant of Allah. For the latter days God in His Mercy sent us the servant of The Servant ---

Ghulam Ahmad as. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as (Ahmad as ) claimed to be The Promised Messiah and Mahdi.
Ahmad as claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus as of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad sa.


why don't you read these links

http://www.*you_got_to_be_kidding*/library/books/Es ... df#page=44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_of_ ... ulam_Ahmad

and tell us what that Mr. PM( Promised Messiah) claimed dear paarsurrey? But it is true., Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani Muslim sect followers are indeed peaceful folks in comparison with Mr. Muhammad Prophet of Islam followers..
Spoiler! :
The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (AMC) is a dynamic, fast growing international revival movement within Islam. Founded in 1889, AMC spans over 195 countries with membership exceeding tens of millions. Its current headquarters are in the United Kingdom.

AMC is the only Islamic organization to believe that the long-awaited Messiah has come in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) (1835-1908) of Qadian. Ahmad (as) claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus (as) of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (sa). AMC believes that God sent Ahmad (as), like Jesus (as), to end religious wars, condemn bloodshed and reinstitute morality, justice and peace. Ahmad’s (as) advent has brought about an unprecedented era of Islamic revival. He divested Islam of fanatical beliefs and practices by vigorously championing Islam’s true and essential teachings.
He also recognized the noble teachings of the great religious founders and saints, including Zoroaster (as), Abraham (as), Moses (as), Jesus (as), Krishna (as), Buddha (as), Confucius (as), Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak, and explained how such teachings converged into the one true Islam.
Spoiler! :
AMC is the leading Islamic organization to categorically reject terrorism in any form. Over a century ago, Ahmad (as) emphatically declared that an aggressive “jihad by the sword” has no place in Islam. In its place, he taught his followers to wage a bloodless, intellectual “jihad of the pen” to defend Islam. To this end, Ahmad (as) penned over 80 books and tens of thousands of letters, delivered hundreds of lectures, and engaged in scores of public debates. His rigorous and rational defenses of Islam unsettled conventional Muslim thinking. As part of its effort to revive Islam, AMC continues to spread Ahmad’s (as) teachings of moderation and restraint in the face of bitter opposition from parts of the Muslim world.

Similarly, AMC is the only Islamic organization to endorse a separation of mosque and state. Over a century ago, Ahmad (as) taught his followers to protect the sanctity of both religion and government by becoming righteous souls as well as loyal citizens. He cautioned against irrational interpretations of Quranic pronouncements and misapplications of Islamic law. He continually voiced his concerns over protecting the rights of God’s creatures. Today, AMC continues to be an advocate for universal human rights and protections for religious and other minorities. It champions the empowerment and education of women. Its members are among the most law-abiding, educated, and engaged Muslims in the world.
Spoiler! :
AMC is the foremost Islamic organization with a central spiritual leader. Over a century ago, Ahmad (as) reminded his followers of God’s promise to safeguard the message of Islam through khilafat(the spiritual institution of successorship to prophethood). AMC believes that only spiritual successorship can uphold the true values of Islam and unite humanity. Five spiritual leaders have succeeded Ahmad (as) since his demise in 1908. AMC’s fifth and current spiritual head, Mirza Masroor Ahmad, resides in the United Kingdom. Under the leadership of its spiritual successors, AMC has now built over 10,000 mosques, over 500 schools, and over 30 hospitals. It has translated the Holy Quran into over 60 languages. It propagates the true teachings of Islam and the message of peace and tolerance through a twenty-four hour satellite television channel (MTA), the Internet (*you_got_to_be_kidding*) and print (Islam International Publications). It has been at the forefront of worldwide disaster relief through an independent charitable organization,
Humanity First.
yes.. Humanity First Good job., keep it up and tell your AMC guys to move all Muslims in to AMC in a peaceful manner

with best
yeezevee

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:31 pm
by John Monash
Alas, Paarsurrey, here you state that your messiah Ghulam Ahmad never claimed any reincarnation status
paarsurrey wrote:The Promised Messiah, Second Coming 1835-1908 never claimed to be the rebirth/reincarnation of anybody.


On the other hand, I have already given you a reliable source that contradicts your claim
Please read the salient point in the article again,
Encyclopaedia Britannica Inc. wrote:Ghulam Ahmad claimed not only that he was the mahdi (a promised Muslim "saviour") and a reappearance (buruz) of the Prophet Muhammad but also that he was Jesus Christ and the Hindu god Krishna returned to Earth.
Copyright © 1994-2001 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.


Well, good chum Paarso,
(a) do you agree with Encyclopaedia Britannica's claim that your messiah was the reincarnation of both Jesus Christ and the Hindu Krishna?
Or
(b) do you belive the assertion made in Encyclopaedia Britannica is incorrect?

In plain English, either you, or the Encyclopaedia Britannica, is not telling the truth.
Simple choice Paarsurrey: which is it, (a) or (b)?

As usual, I don't expect a direct response, afterall, "Allah is the best of deceivers"
Cheers
JM

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:47 am
by paarsurrey
Do you agree with Encyclopaedia Britannica's claim that your messiah was the reincarnation of both Jesus Christ and the Hindu Krishna?


Hi friend/s

If the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 never claimed to be reincarnation of Jesus Christ or the Krishna; then nobody can make him such.Encyclopaedia Britannica should quote the words where he claimed to be a reincarnation; otherwise the renowned Encyclopedia could revised its article.

I think it is a reasonable position.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:24 am
by John Monash
G'day Paarsurrey, what's it like in Morden, Surrey, these days?.

Please pay attention Paarso, our vocal, yokel, (Morden local?) peaceful Ahmedi and lover of "Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Qu'ran, thanks", you are becoming a true pain in the neck.

paarsurrey wrote:If the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 never claimed to be reincarnation of Jesus Christ or the Krishna; then nobody can make him such.

Are you sure your promised messiah Mirza Ghulam Ahmad never claimed to be Jesus Christ?

And how about this piece of misinformation
unashamedly paarsurrey also wrote:
Encyclopaedia Britannica should quote the words where he claimed to be a reincarnation; otherwise the renowned Encyclopedia could revised its article.


Read this article of faith from the Official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and see where your long-dead messiah Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (died 1908) did in fact claim to be Jesus Christ, exactly as indicated in Encyclopaedia Britannica

source (page 230 of 524) http://www.alislam.org/books/ahmadiyyat/WelcomeBook2ndEd.pdf
Claims of the Promised Messiah and Mahdi


Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah and Mahdi made the following three major claims:

1. The "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahd−i " of the Muslims were the same person, and that he himself was that person.

2. He is the Promised Messiah and Mahd−i (Guided Leader) mentioned in the prophecies of the Holy Prophet and of sa Jesus in the Bible.

3. Jesus of Nazareth did not die on the cross, rather he died a asnatural death and would not return.


Enough Paarso, stop evading the issue.
Like the false prophet and sinner Mahomet (Mr.20%), your fake messiah and sinner Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is another deluded charlatan. Ahmadiyya theology, with all it's peaceful veneer, is nothing but a fake cult buried in the fake sect of Mohammadism.
History is replete with false messiahs like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who died in 1908. But there is only one Jesus Christ - the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end -- and He didn't die in 1908.

Cheers
JM

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:06 pm
by paarsurrey
Hi friends

I don’t say that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 did not claim to be the Promised Messiah or Imam Mahdi; in fact he had claimed these titles; so how could I deny that? I rather confirm these titles/names to him.

The Promised Messiah and Mahdi writes:

"The holy and pure revelation of God Almighty has informed me
that I have been sent by Him as the Promised Messiah and the Mahd−i , and
the arbiter for the internal and external differences. The names Messiah
and Mahdi which have been given to me; the Holy Prophet also has
mentioned me by these names. Furthermore, God Almighty through direct
revelation has given me these names. Moreover, the conditions of the
world in this age demanded that this must be my name. So, there are three
witnesses to my names. My God who, is the Lord of the Universe (Creator
and Sustainer of the Universe), I make Him as my witness and declare that
I have been appointed by Him."
(Arba'−i n, No. 1, page 3)

The above quote is from page 230 of the book our friend John Monash has referenced, written by one of his followers, who was also a grandson of the Promised Messiah; and it is all correctly written.

The thing I denied was that the Promised Messiah was a re-incarnationof anybody; he never claimed to be as such. Please quote a passage from him where he has used the word reincarnation for him. You will never find any such word written in his writings and he was prolific writer in Urdu, Persian and Arabic. Now the ball is in your court, anybody among you who could prove that he used these words for him.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:12 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
paarsurrey wrote:
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


Why do you love Jesus and Mary? What is your favorite action or saying of Jesus?

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:15 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
paarsurrey wrote:
Trojan wrote: paarsurrey :...will never stop as long as he is ...believing that there is actually goodwill towards mankind in Islam


Hi friend

Islam spread peacefully in the world in times of Muhammad.


Who tells you these blatant lies? Muhammad commanded on his deathbed for his followers to expel all pagans from the Arabian Penninsula. Do you think his followers merely asked the pagans to leave and they did? Come on. Isl;am was indeed spread by the sword. Muhammad himself said "I have been made victorious through terror". How do you just blatantly ignore this? How do you lie to yourself like this?

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:19 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
paarsurrey wrote:I am confident that the peaceful ,bright , rational, reasonable and logical arguments of Quran/Islam/Muhammad will convice the heart of the West.


OK, let's talk rationally, reasonably and logically. Please explain to me why the Quran mistakenly thought that Christians take Mary as a God besides Jesus and the Father. Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father, but the Quran says Christians take Jesus and Mary as Gods besides the Father (or Allah). So how could Allah have made such a mistake?

Promised Messiah Imam Mahdi - explained

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:22 pm
by paarsurrey
Hi friends

I give below to more quotes from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 regarding his claims:

When God Almighty, observing the condition of the
world and finding the earth filled with every type of
disobedience, sin and misguidance, appointed me for
the propagation of the truth and the reform of people
and the time was…..the end of the thirteenth and the
beginning of the fourteenth century, then I—in obedience
to this command—sent forth the call through
written announcements and speeches, that I am that
person
, who was to come from God at the turn of
the century for revival of the faith. The purpose was
that I should re-establish the faith which had disappeared
from the earth, and pull mankind towards
reform and righteousness and truthfulness through
the power and strength that God had bestowed upon
me and through the magnetic power of His hand. I
was also destined to correct their doctrinal errors and
to reform their conduct.

Messiah and Mahdi

A few years thereafter, it was made quite clear to me
through Divine revelation that the Messiah, whose
advent among the Muslims had been promised from
the beginning, and the last Mahdi whose advent had
been Divinely decreed to take place at the time of
the decline of Islam and the spread of error, and who
was to be guided directly by God, and who was to
invite people to partake of the heavenly banquet, and
whose advent had been foretold by the Holy Prophet (sa)
thirteen hundred years in advance, was none
other than myself. Divine revelation was vouchsafed
to me so clearly and so continuously that it left no
room for doubt. Every word of such revelations
found its firm place in my heart like an iron nail.
These revelations were replete with grand prophecies
which were most clearly fulfilled. Their
regularity, number and miraculous power compelled
me to affirm that they were the words of the One
God Who is without associate and Who revealed the
Holy Qur’an. I do not mention the Torah and the
Gospels in this context because the Torah and the
Gospels have been so corrupted at the hands of their
followers that they can no longer be described as the
Word of God. In short, the revelation of God that
descended upon me is so certain and absolute that
through it I found my God. That revelation not only
carried with it full certainty through heavenly signs
contained therein but every portion of it—when put
before the Word of God Almighty contained in the
Holy Qur’an—proved to be in full accord with it.
Heavenly signs came down like rain to confirm its
truth.

[Tadhkirat-us-Shahadatain, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 20, pp. 3-4]

I think the matter is now clear to everybody that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad never claimed to be any reincarnation of anybody.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:43 pm
by paarsurrey
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
paarsurrey wrote:
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


Why do you love Jesus and Mary? What is your favorite action or saying of Jesus?


Hi friend Muhammad bin Lyin

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother, just because the Creator- God Allah YHWH selected them for His Word of Revelation. Moses' mother was a firm believer in God Allah YHWH; when God Allah YHWH told her to put her baby Moses in a basket and make it afloat in the river; He would not only save the baby but would return him for her care. I think no mother would dare do that unless she is a firm believer in God Allah YHWH. And that is what actually happened later. One has to love persons whom God Allah YHWH loves.

I give hereunder my favorite quote from Jesus; please see it in pink :

[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.
[5:118] “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’
And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.
[5:119] “If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise.” [5:120] Allah will say, ‘This is a day when only the truthful shall profit by their truthfulness. For them are Gardens beneath which streams flow; therein shall they abide for ever. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him; that indeed is the great triumph.’
[5:121] To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever is in them; and He has power over all things.

Translation by Moulvi Sher Ali; one may google Ahmadiyya official website to access it

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:48 pm
by paarsurrey
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
paarsurrey wrote:I am confident that the peaceful ,bright , rational, reasonable and logical arguments of Quran/Islam/Muhammad will convice the heart of the West.


OK, let's talk rationally, reasonably and logically. Please explain to me why the Quran mistakenly thought that Christians take Mary as a God besides Jesus and the Father. Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father, but the Quran says Christians take Jesus and Mary as Gods besides the Father (or Allah). So how could Allah have made such a mistake?


Hi friends

Please quote the text of the verse from Quran with the usual short context of five preceding and five following verses where what you say has been mentioned. Then prove from the context the correctness of your claim.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:31 pm
by yeezevee
paarsurrey
Hi friends

Please quote the text of the verse from Quran with the usual short context of five preceding and five following verses where what you say has been mentioned. Then prove from the context the correctness of your claim.

right... take WHOLE CHAPTER why only five preceding and five following verses?
here read it.. chapter Al-Tahrim http://www.free-islam.com/modules.php?n ... opic&t=894

and here are few verses and its underlying tafsir for you

O prophet! Why do you prohibit that which Allah has made lawful for you; seeking the pleasure your wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al Quran ; 66:1]
yes..yes.. seek the pleasure... 13 women in 13 years one was child and other was adopted son's wife.. What is this Allah appears to be Mr. PBUH's PIMP

066.003: And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me.
There you go.. What information was that? How to sleep with a slave of a wife??.. Ha!.. Allah knows the best. What a rubbish.. Zee. atleast IF THIS STUPID THING WAS IN Hadith., I would have out rightly rejected the DAMN THING but IDIOTS put it in Q'uran.. Hey Allah.. help me out..

066.004: If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
WHO BOTH?. two wives bitching at each other?? It happens man.. take it easy.. don't go to Allah.. Even Allah would have been in trouble with so many wives.. lol.. and so many concubines in those 13 years

066.005: Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.


There you go.. what a RASCAL., if you don't listen to me ALLAH SAYS' HE GETS ME BETTER WIFE" A SUBMISSIVE obedient adoring wife..

YOU WOMEN SHUT UP..other wise I will not sleep with you.. Allah said that to me..
WHAT A CROAK.. what a revelations .. Help me Allah.. help me..

Foolish book silly people..
yeezevee

Re: Ahmadi beliefs

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:36 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
paarsurrey wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
paarsurrey wrote:
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


Why do you love Jesus and Mary? What is your favorite action or saying of Jesus?


Hi friend Muhammad bin Lyin

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother, just because the Creator- God Allah YHWH selected them for His Word of Revelation. Moses' mother was a firm believer in God Allah YHWH; when God Allah YHWH told her to put her baby Moses in a basket and make it afloat in the river; He would not only save the baby but would return him for her care. I think no mother would dare do that unless she is a firm believer in God Allah YHWH. And that is what actually happened later. One has to love persons whom God Allah YHWH loves.

I give hereunder my favorite quote from Jesus; please see it in pink :

[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.
[5:118] “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’
And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.
[5:119] “If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise.” [5:120] Allah will say, ‘This is a day when only the truthful shall profit by their truthfulness. For them are Gardens beneath which streams flow; therein shall they abide for ever. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him; that indeed is the great triumph.’
[5:121] To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever is in them; and He has power over all things.

Translation by Moulvi Sher Ali; one may google Ahmadiyya official website to access it

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks



You love Jesus for stating a false belief about Christians in the Quran? The Trinity is Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father, not Jesus, Mary and the Father. This was a blatant error that God could not make, and you use this as your reason to love Jesus??

Here's a reason that I have to love Jesus. I have the New Testament where Jesus actually says things of value and about love, which is nowhere to be found in the Quran.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



You have no reason to love Jesus, it's merely lip service. You say you love him simply because you are told that you must, but the Quran doesn't tell you anything good that he did. It doesn't really tell you anything about what he preached and the Quran is quite contradictory to what was preached above. Muhammad hijacked Jesus and altered him to bring him down to his level.