Women in Christianity

Debate how Islam compares to other faiths and religions.
paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friends

Whenever it was done; it was not fault of Jesus or Muhammad; the Creator -God Allah YHWH never commanded anyone to do it. It was an act of not treading on the path of Jesus and or Muhammad. Those who did such acts were only responsible for those act; they would be rewarded accordingly.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Sten
Posts: 3205
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:19 am

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by Sten »

paarsurrey wrote:Hi friends

Whenever it was done; it was not fault of Jesus or Muhammad; the Creator -God Allah YHWH never commanded anyone to do it. It was an act of not treading on the path of Jesus and or Muhammad. Those who did such acts were only responsible for those act; they would be rewarded accordingly.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I didn't ask whose fault it was, I asked about acts committed IN THE NAME of these religions. Can you answer my question or not?
The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
- Carl Sagan

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Christianity: man was not created for woman but woman for ma

Post by paarsurrey »

Christianity: man was not created for woman but woman for man


Hi friends

Does Christianity truly consider women a chattel?

1 Corinthians 11

6 For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. 7 The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man. 9 For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. 10 Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels.
10 "A power"... that is, a veil or covering, as a sign that she is under the power of her husband: and this, the apostle adds, because of the angels, who are present in the assemblies of the faithful.
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53011.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does Christianity truly consider women a chattel? Yes, of course

Thanks to the secular movement in Europe and elsewhere which relieved women from the yoke of men; but the truth is that Christianity of the Paul’s time and Church (not of course of Jesus’ time) considered women a subordinate of men, and a women was not forced to put on a veil or head-covering for chastity reason but as mark of subordination of men or to denote power of Men, as clearly mentioned in Bible.

This was not the case with Islam; Quran/Islam/Muhammad advised women to put on a veil or a head-covering as a mark of respect and that the women should not be looked upon for sexual harassment. Mary the mother of Jesus put on a head-covering for the reasons given by Quran as Mary was never a Christian.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by yeezevee »

We got to learn to use SOME COMMONSENSE dear paarsurrey.,

YOU SAY
Does Christianity truly consider women a chattel?

1 Corinthians 11

6 For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. 7 The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man. 9 For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. 10 Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels.
10 "A power"... that is, a veil or covering, as a sign that she is under the power of her husband: and this, the apostle adds, because of the angels, who are present in the assemblies of the faithful.
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53011.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I say Paul is wrong , we can correct Paul., Christians have corrected Paul..

but.. this from you is not right
Does Christianity truly consider women a chattel? Yes, of course
Paul is NOT total Christianity., Paul was part of it., Head of Christianity is Christ, similar to Head of Islam is Mr. Muhammad.
Thanks to the secular movement in Europe and elsewhere which relieved women from the yoke of men; but the truth is that Christianity of the Paul’s time and Church (not of course of Jesus’ time) considered women a subordinate of men, and a women was not forced to put on a veil or head-covering for chastity reason but as mark of subordination of men or to denote power of Men, as clearly mentioned in Bible.
Yes you are right there dear paarsurrey., But we can remove JUNK from Paul and in Christianity will still there with Christ being the Model. But..but If we do same thing to Islam .. Remove junk from Islam Still you have Muhammad, a Junkie junk.
This was not the case with Islam; Quran/Islam/Muhammad advised women to put on a veil or a head-covering as a mark of respect and that the women should not be looked upon for sexual harassment. Mary the mother of Jesus put on a head-covering for the reasons given by Quran as Mary was never a Christian.
Utter Nonsense.. READ QURAN.. do you want me to give the verses?? More over what is the deal with silly covering or combing hair?? Stupid Islam covers with Trash bags..

with best regards
yeezevee

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Present "Christianity" is founded by Paul not by Jesus

Post by paarsurrey »

Paul is NOT total Christianity
Hi friends

Let the Catholics and Protestants say the above words; why should an Atheist Agnostic plead their case. Let the Catholics Protestants stand on their own feet; and defend their own faith.

Present "Christianity" is founded by Paul; Paul's absurdities have nothing to do with Jesus and Mary. "Christianity' of Paul and the "Church" was invented at Rome only with the sole purpose of character assassination of Jesus in his absence; when he took refuge in India, with Mary his mother, from the atrocities of Jews.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by yeezevee »

Hi friends

Let the Catholics and Protestants say the above words; why should an Atheist Agnostic plead their case. Let the Catholics Protestants stand on their own feet; and defend their own faith.
How do you know that I am not one of them? and why do you think that I am not one of them dear paarsurrey?? can you see this image

Image

It means., each sect gives freedom to other Christian sects .. with Christ being over all model to Christianity., If you don't believe in all these sects and guys., you open your own Christan ways Christ being the model. No one is objecting you and no Catholics and no Protestants will kill you UNLIKE MUHAMMAD FOLLOWING Muslim ROBOTS .. read it..

http://www.thepersecution.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; watch it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nWzoxNBxZA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Present "Christianity" is founded by Paul; Paul's absurdities have nothing to do with Jesus and Mary. "Christianity' of Paul and the "Church" was invented at Rome only with the sole purpose of character assassination of Jesus in his absence; when he took refuge in India, with Mary his mother, from the atrocities of Jews.
O.k. so what?? neither Paul; Paul's absurdities Paul "Church" objecting you for your questions and beliefs. JUICE and Christians will solve the problem, You open your own church of Christ. I will make sure they will not persecute you, but i can NOT guarantee you that it will not happen from Muhammad following Muslims ..

with best
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by Brendalee »

So which do you think Christians should follow: The teachings of Jesus, or the opinions of his prone-to-error-like-all-humans FOLLOWER, Paul? Paul was not perfect, nor was he JESUS. He was a flawed human like the rest of humanity who had his own view of things - which was not always in agreement with other Christian leaders, who ALSO were not perfect. Nor were any claims of being perfect made by them. Their personal views are unimportant to the essential message of Christianity. One can muse on them and decide what to agree with or not, but THEY are not the "message". THEY are not the "good news" referred to.

Show where JESUS tells women to cover their heads.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Present "Christianity" is founded by Paul not by Jesus

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey wrote:
Paul is NOT total Christianity
Hi friends

Let the Catholics and Protestants say the above words; why should an Atheist Agnostic plead their case. Let the Catholics Protestants stand on their own feet; and defend their own faith
:lol: Nothing could draw me into this thread faster that comments like that! I do not have to be a follower of any religious dogma to know more about Christianity than you do, Paarsurrey. Your anti-Christian trolling is just tu quoque to protect the Islam that you are so patently unable to defend.

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

No mention of Trinity in Torah

Post by paarsurrey »

Brendalee wrote:So which do you think Christians should follow: The teachings of Jesus, or the opinions of his prone-to-error-like-all-humans FOLLOWER, Paul?
Hi friend brendalee

Those who love Jesus should follow the true teachings of Jesus; and to start with they should reject Trinity as Jesus and Mary never believed in it. Jesus and Mary were Jews and Jews don't believe in Trinity; there is no mention of Trinity in Torah. Jesus and Mary never believed in "Christianity" invented by Paul.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by yeezevee »

paarsurrey
Hi friend brendalee

Those who love Jesus should follow the true teachings of Jesus; and to start with they should reject Trinity as Jesus and Mary never believed in it. Jesus and Mary were Jews and Jews don't believe in Trinity; there is no mention of Trinity in Torah. Jesus and Mary never believed in "Christianity" invented by Paul.
O..k dear paarsurrey , we got everything from you., Paul is Paul NOT CHRIST neither Christianity., we can correct PaUL., we can love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

But man .Muhammad is Wrong.. FORGET PROPHET AND MESSENGER, Muhammad was actually criminal. You know that fellow Promised messiah was MILLION times better than Prophet of Islam and YOU ARE BETTER MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN Promised Messiah . I am sorry to say this but Facts are facts dear paarsurrey

You know Paul was NOT as criminal as Muhammad.. Mr. PBUH?? Can you write Paul's Life and compare it with Mr. Muhammad prophet of Islam??

with best regards
yeezevee

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof for your assertion that "Jesus and Mary" did not believe in the trinity.

How do you know what Jesus or Mary believed or did not believe? Are you God that you know their thoughts?

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: No mention of Trinity in Torah

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey wrote:
Brendalee wrote:So which do you think Christians should follow: The teachings of Jesus, or the opinions of his prone-to-error-like-all-humans FOLLOWER, Paul?
Hi friend brendalee

Those who love Jesus should follow the true teachings of Jesus; and to start with they should reject Trinity as Jesus and Mary never believed in it. Jesus and Mary were Jews and Jews don't believe in Trinity; there is no mention of Trinity in Torah. Jesus and Mary never believed in "Christianity" invented by Paul.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Jews believed in stoning also. The JEW Jesus did not. Same for JEWISH dietary laws. Jesus the JEW contradicted them by saying it was not what people ATE which made them unclean. Jesus did a LOT of things JEWS didn't normally do.

How do you know that Jesus and Mary never believed in Christianity? How do you know that Jesus did not intend Christianity to be born? Are you the All-Knowing Allah, arrogant paarsurrey?

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by yeezevee »

Brendalee
paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof for your assertion that "Jesus and Mary" did not believe in the trinity.

How do you know what Jesus or Mary believed or did not believe? Are you God that you know their thoughts?
well Muslims have very simple answer such questions dear Brendalee

"Quran says so..
Quran is word of Allah/God."

"Who said that?
Quran says.."

Lol... Muhammad following Muslims have wonderful circular logic in Quran., If they can not find in it, they will make out of it by jugging Arabic words/meaning around..

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Brendalee wrote:paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof ..that "Jesus and Mary" did not believe in the trinity.
Hi friend brendalee

You know it is written in your NTBible that Jesus came to fulfill Moses teachings; Jesus and Mary were Jews followers of Moses. Moses never believed in any Trinity.(So Jesus and Mary never had to believe in any Trinity.)

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Last edited by paarsurrey on Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey wrote:
Brendalee wrote:paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof ..that "Jesus and Mary" did not believe in the trinity.
Hi friend brendalee

You know it is written in your NTBible that Jesus came to fulfill Moses teachings; Jesus and Mary were Jews followers of Moses. Moses never believed in any Trinity.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Well, firstly it is not MY "NTBible", and secondly (and I know this will come as a great astonishment to you), I did not ask you what Moses believed, did I? Nope, I asked you to PROVE what you claim Jesus or Mary did or did not believe.

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with it

Post by paarsurrey »

Brendalee wrote:
paarsurrey wrote:
Brendalee wrote:paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof ..that "Jesus and Mary" did not believe in the trinity.
Hi friend brendalee

You know it is written in your NTBible that Jesus came to fulfill Moses teachings; Jesus and Mary were Jews followers of Moses. Moses never believed in any Trinity.(So Jesus and Mary never had to believe in any Trinity.)

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Well, firstly it is not MY "NTBible", and secondly (and I know this will come as a great astonishment to you), I did not ask you what Moses believed, did I? Nope, I asked you to PROVE what you claim Jesus or Mary did or did not believe.

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Quran

Thanks
Hi friend brendalee

I don't know as to why people here generally don't want to disclose their identity or denomination/faith/religion; perhaps they don't feel confident on the truth of their stand-point and they prefer to remain a rolling stone, without any identity. Or they might not be sure or confident to defend their denomination/faith/religion with reasonable, rational and logical arguments; well I don't mind that. I can understand this state of affairs for the Atheists Agnostics as their belief is not natural and firm hence they need to conceal it; never mind.

I would love to prove from Quran being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim as to the claims of what Jesus or Mary did or or did not believe and of their deeds and acts that they both performed.

Please start a separate thread titles "claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with its reasons ". Now it depends on you to start such a thread, as things here might get jumbled together.

I am waiting for such a thread in the Islam questioned and defended forum.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with it

Post by Brendalee »

Myself:
paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof ..that "Jesus and Mary" did not believe in the trinity.
paarsurrey:
Hi friend brendalee

You know it is written in your NTBible that Jesus came to fulfill Moses teachings; Jesus and Mary were Jews followers of Moses. Moses never believed in any Trinity.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Myself:
Well, firstly it is not MY "NTBible", and secondly (and I know this will come as a great astonishment to you), I did not ask you what Moses believed, did I? Nope, I asked you to PROVE what you claim Jesus or Mary did or did not believe.

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Quran

Thanks
paarsurrey:
Hi friend brendalee

I don't know people here generally don't want to disclose their identity or denomination/faith/religion; perhaps they don't feel confident on the truth of their stand-point and they prefer to remain a rolling stand. Or they might not be sure to defend their denomination/faith/religion with reasonable, rational and logical arguments; well I don't mind that.
"perhaps"....."MIGHT not"....blah, blah, bait and speculations....Terrific. So glad you "don't mind", so ... why do you keep bringing it up?

paarsurrey:
I would love to prove from Quran being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim as to the claims of what Jesus or Mary did or or did not believe and of their deeds and acts that they both performed.
Excellent. It is an easy matter then. Your claim is that neither of them believed in the trinity or Christianity. The only way you could possibly KNOW this, instead of merely speculating it, is if they had SAID it. So simple: Bring their quotes where they say they do not believe these things.

paarsurrey:
Please start a separate thread titles "claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with its reasons ". Now it depends on you to start such a thread, as things here might get jumbled together.

I am waiting for such a thread in the Islam questioned and defended forum.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
:roflmao:

Why, aren't you just the silliest and cutest thing, paarsurrey! Funny how you were not so fussy about "jumbling together" things on this thread when you made the claim of knowing what Jesus or Mary believed regarding the trinity and Christianity. Here's my stance: YOU made the claim HERE, so YOU prove the claim HERE. And please remember that your Dawaganda Ahmadi crap is not evidence of what Jesus and Mary did or did not BELIEVE regarding the trinity or Christianity unless it has quoted them from a credible contemporary source from their lifetimes or shortly afterwards; and I will not give you the excuse to propogate more of your vomitous spamming by starting a new thread for you to do so.
And the idea that such a thread should be started in the Islam Questioned and Defended forum is just so hysterically funny, it leaves me breathless. Could it be the mods are fed up with you spamming all over the place and putting threads where you please and you would like some silly pawn to do it for you? :lol:

Neither is Islam itself a credible source, as THAT came CENTURIES after the deaths of Jesus and Mary. So, unless you have the Godlike power to read minds that are long-ago dead, I think you have a bit of a problem. It seems you are confined to finding proof in their WORDS as related in the New Testament - as THAT is the nearest to a contemporary source about their lives which actually cites the words of Jesus (I can't recall, but I think Mary's words are not directly cited even there.) Either show me the NEW TESTAMENT verses where Jesus (or Mary) SAYS that they do NOT believe in the Trinity or Christianity or else ADMIT that you have not got a clue about what they "did not believe" in.

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Bible

Thanks



(I know I wrote that wrong last time, saying "Quran" instead of "Bible". It was like the Satanic Verses, you see. Iblis took control of my typing fingers, but now Allah sorted it all out.)

Incidentally you never cited the verses where the Quran mentions "Jesus" and "Mary".

pvb
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:46 pm

Re: Women in Christianity

Post by pvb »

For a true picture of how Jesus treated women please read:

John 4

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV

Not only was this a woman, but also a Samaritan - Jews did not associate with Samaritans. Even jesus' disciples were surprised to see Jesus talking to a woman, at that time men were not to speak to women publically, or teach them theology.

Jesus also uses a woman to portray GOD in a parable:
Luke 15
8"Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[a] and loses one. Does she not light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.' 10In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

Jesus praises is mother- Mohammad says half of those in Hell will be women:
Luke 8
19Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. 20Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you."
21He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."

In Mark 5 Jesus heals the bleeding woman who at that time would have been considered unclean- HE did not reprimand her but siad her faith had healed her.

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with it

Post by paarsurrey »

Brendalee wrote:Either show me the NEW TESTAMENT verses where Jesus (or Mary) SAYS that they do NOT believe in the Trinity or Christianity or else ADMIT that you have not got a clue about what they "did not believe" in.
Hi friend brebdalee

Jesus got Baptised with John the Baptist,who was a Jew. Mary was already a Jew. Unless you prove that Jesus and Mary got converted to the Christianity of Paul; for all practical purposes they never were Christians truly and they never believed in Trinity. Jesus never created any new Sun, Moon and Earth; everything was as before him; how could Jesus claim any divinty in him?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wootah
Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:41 am

Re: claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with it

Post by Wootah »

paarsurrey wrote:Hi friend brebdalee

Jesus got Baptised with John the Baptist,who was a Jew. Mary was already a Jew. Unless you prove that Jesus and Mary got converted to the Christianity of Paul; for all practical purposes they never were Christians truly and they never believed in Trinity. Jesus never created any new Sun, Moon and Earth; everything was as before him; how could Jesus claim any divinty in him?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Paarsurrey, here is your logic:
I am born in Australia.
I never attended a citizenship ceremony.
Therefore I'm not Australian.

You spend so much time attacking that you are like Wile E Coyote who once he stops running finds that he has run off the cliff ... again.

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