Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Debate how Islam compares to other faiths and religions.
paarsurrey
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by paarsurrey »

Could a woman wear less than Mary?
Hi friends

It is always good to follow an ideal like Mary. Why should one be satisfied with less than the ideal.
However; I don't see any worldly punishment for less than the ideal mentioned in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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sum
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by sum »

Hello paarsurrey

You are still avoiding my questions, aren`t you?

You have created your own personal ideal in Mary but have not told us where the limits are. If there are to be guidelines then please give your answers to my questions to let us know where you might start to place limits.

Why are you afraid to answer my specific questions?

sum
paarsurrey
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by paarsurrey »

You have created your own personal ideal in Mary
Hi friends

I have not created my personal ideal in Mary. It is very much mentioned in Quran:

[66:11] Allah sets forth for those who disbelieve the example of the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were under two righteous servants of Ours, but they acted unfaithfully towards them. So they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said to them, ‘Enter the Fire, ye twain, along with those who enter.’
[66:12] And Allah sets forth for those who believe the example of the wife of Pharaoh when she said, ‘My Lord! build for me a house with Thee in the Garden; and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from the wrongdoing people;’ [66:13] And the example of Mary, the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her private parts — so We breathed into him of Our Spirit — and she fulfilled in her person the words of her Lord and His Books and was one of the obedient.

http://www.*you_got_to_be_kidding*/quran/search2/sh ... 6&verse=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you need more studying of Quran with sincerity.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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sum
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by sum »

Hello paarsurrey

Your quote -
I think you need more studying of Quran with sincerity.

I have done that. Have you?

You are still avoiding answering my questions. All you keep providing is the verse that says Mary guarded her private parts. What does it mean by "guarded"? Does it mean that no physical access was allowed in the sense that she prevented men from having sexual contact?

You are still not telling us what these private parts are. I will ask you, yet again, to tell us.

Would a short sleeved blouse be acceptable?

Would a knee length skirt be acceptable?

Would a low cut top that covered the breasts from view be acceptable?

So far, you have not provided any Koranic or Islamic ruling on the questions that I have raised. Why are you running away from being open and frank about this matter?

Please answer my questions. If you are unable to do so please just say.

sum
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Centaur
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by Centaur »

mary daughter of imran(not biblical mary) guarded private parts for allah blowing into it. Wa Allah, you know the best
:lol:
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paarsurrey
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by paarsurrey »

sum wrote:Hello paarsurrey

Your quote -
I think you need more studying of Quran with sincerity.

I have done that. Have you?

Would a knee length skirt be acceptable?

Would a low cut top that covered the breasts from view be acceptable?

sum
Hi friends

Mary is a Model woman; it is very much mentioned in Quran. The Christian nuns also wear dresses like Mary. They could explain you about Mary's dress code and other details.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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diotima64
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by diotima64 »

paarsurrey wrote:
sum wrote:Hello paarsurrey

Your quote -
I think you need more studying of Quran with sincerity.

I have done that. Have you?

Would a knee length skirt be acceptable?

Would a low cut top that covered the breasts from view be acceptable?

sum
Hi friends

Mary is a Model woman; it is very much mentioned in Quran. The Christian nuns also wear dresses like Mary. They could explain you about Mary's dress code and other details.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Mary IS a model woman, but not on account of the clothes you see her wear in medieval paintings. The clothing nuns wear has nothing to do with what Mary wore in her real life... it´s just the clothing medieval women wore in Europe after marriage, and since nuns are "brides of christ", they wore that clothing, too. Mary is simply depicted as a woman of the times the pic is painted in, duh.
Mary being a model has to do with her behaviour, her acceptance of God´s will, her totally loving and sinless nature. She is just as sinless, pure and paragonal when she is depicted with naked breasts and no head-covering - Maria lactans: Image
paarsurrey
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by paarsurrey »

Mary IS a model woman, but not on account of the clothes you see her wear in medieval paintings.
Mary being a model has to do with her behavior, her acceptance of God’s will, her totally loving and sinless nature.
Hi friends

I don’t agree with you. I did not point to any particular picture of Mary of the medieval ages of Europe for which you may be right. I point to the images of Mary as per the early Christians who depicted Mary as she lived in Jerusalem. Mary’s behavior was no doubt exemplary but she attained it in clothing she wore. She was not without the clothes after all.

The Christians claim that they see Mary's visions; the visions are just like we see Mary in the Catholic Churches fully dressed.

The clothing is also important. Nobody of the Christians would like to see Jesus or Mary in naked.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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manfred
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by manfred »

:drool:
Tell us, please the following about [Islamic] Mary:

Did Mary have a brother?
Who was Mary's father?
How many angels talked to Mary?
What, if anything, is Mary doing now?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
ThereIs1Adonai
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by ThereIs1Adonai »

The whole purpose of the "we love Jesus and Mary" agenda in the Quran and given by Muslims today is to find a common ground with Christians in an effort to conver them.

If Muhammed was the greatest prophet of God, why did he not cite his own mother? Doesn't it seem odd that the "revelation" he received discounts his own mother as a great woman and gives that honor to the mother of "just another prophet" like Jesus?

Muhammed told the "revelation" he claims to have received with a very obvious agenda. He was encountering Jews and Christians. Better to convert them than to have to kill them. Converting them grows your own strength. Killing them just makes you more obviously violent to the rest of the world.

Don't get me wrong. Muhammed was a brilliant strategist. Like Machiavelli, he knew how to brainwash the masses. This claim to recognize Jesus and Mary as "special" is just one thing he did that was most pragmatic to his goals. Jesus for the protestants and Mary for the Catholics, and Moses for the Jews. It is easy to see through this deception.

Peace, Shalom
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manfred
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by manfred »

@ThereIs1Adonai

paarsurrey will obviously not answer me, as knows the problems...

So let's point it out to him, and then let's see how he deals with that....

Did Mary have a brother?
Yes, Mary was the bother of Aaron, according to the quran.

Who was Mary's father?
Imran, Aaron's father. That would mean she was roughly 1500 years old when she gave birth to Jesus... This obvious mistake of confusing Mary with Miriam was in fact pointed out to Mohammed who wriggled out of it with great presence of mind, but zero credibility.

How many angels talked to Mary?
The quran contradicts itself on that.

What, if anything, is Mary doing now?

There is an Islamic tradition that she married Mohammed in paradise. This is a very telling story: Mary, like all other biblical characters mentioned in the quran, only have one purpose: to prop up Mohammed's claims to prophethood. Jesus was a minor prophet preparing the way for Mohammed; Jesus's mother became one of Mohammed's wives... So both have become no more than t tool to legitimise Mohammed's claims.

Essentially Mary is now no more than one of those "virgins" in paradise, according to Islamic tradition.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
ThereIs1Adonai
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by ThereIs1Adonai »

But Mary was only a virgin until after the birth of Jesus! We know that because he had brothers, one of whom became the head of the church in Jerusalem....James... who was later martyred for his faith.

But I forgot.... that was written by eyewitnesses in the Bible way before the Quran of Muhammed knew better than those eyewitnesses, and better than Roman records of that martyrdom. History rewritten hundreds of years later has to be better than eyewitness accounts. Everyone know that!

I just realized that whole line of reasoning sounds like a couple of guys in a bar getting drunk and discussing religion. :drunk:

Peace, Shalom
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ixolite
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by ixolite »

paarsurrey wrote: I point to the images of Mary as per the early Christians who depicted Mary as she lived in Jerusalem.
You point to the images as per the early Christians? Which ones would that be?
BurgeoningKnowledge
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by BurgeoningKnowledge »

Cassie wrote:Anything a perverted murderous bandit pedophile has to say is untrustworthy, wouldn't you say?
correct, so we should just disregard all you say.
crazymonkie_
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by crazymonkie_ »

:lotpot:

Oooooh, BUUUUUURN.

....You do know that Cassie has two doctorates and hasn't joined, much less led, any roving gang of bandits, right?
paarsurrey
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Jesus and Mary of Quran vs. the Celebrity Culture

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi the good friends here

The West must love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran as their Social role Model to save the family institution- a natural bond, instead of following the Celebrity Culture so rampant in West perhaps mostly promoted by the confused Atheists Agnostic having no revealed Book or a natural system for life.

It is true that the reason oriented and enlightened Christians find no rational hero in the mythical concepts of Jesus- being son of god or god, and Mary- as an intercession, presented by cunning Paul and Church and the sinful scribes; and hence they leave Christianity silently .The Celebrity culture hardly promotes any family bond for sure.

The Church and the Christians should therefore present Jesus and Mary of Quran as a role model to salvage all such people.

This is also useful for the Atheists to become pro-life.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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paarsurrey
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friends

I think my Atheist Agnostic Catholic Protestant friends have agreed to the contents of my above post. It is peaceful, humane, pro-life, pro-family and pro-theme-of-the-evolution to accept Mary as a role model of the West.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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paarsurrey
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friends

I don’t think that many friends here would know that Quran gives a very vivid account of Mary’s life starting from when Mary’s mother wanted to devote his first born child in the name of Creator- God Allah YHWH. I think I should give some verses from Quran to elaborate it; perhaps you won’t mind it, as you won’t find it in the Bible:

[3:34] Allah did choose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of ‘Imran above all peoples —
[3:35] A race, co-related with one another. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
[3:36] Remember when the woman of ‘Imran said, ‘My Lord, I have vowed to Thee what is in my womb to be dedicated to Thy service. So do accept it of me; verily, Thou alone art All-Hearing, All-Knowing.’
[3:37] But when she was delivered of it, she said, ‘My Lord, I am delivered of a female’ — and Allah knew best what she had brought forth and the male she was thinking of was not like the female she had brought forth — ‘and I have named her Mary, and I commit her and her offspring to Thy protection from Satan, the rejected.’
[3:38] So her Lord accepted her with a gracious acceptance and caused her to grow an excellent growth and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah visited her in the chamber, he found with her provisions. He said, ‘O Mary, whence hast thou this?’ She replied, ‘It is from Allah.’ Surely, Allah gives to whomsoever He pleases without measure.
[3:39] There and then did Zachariah pray to his Lord, saying, ‘My Lord, grant me from Thyself pure offspring; surely, Thou art the Hearer of prayer.’
[3:40] And the angels called to him as he stood praying in the chamber: ‘Allah gives thee glad tidings of Yahya, who shall testify to the truth of a word from Allah — noble and chaste and a Prophet, from among the righteous.’
[3:41] He said, ‘My Lord, how shall I have a son, when age has overtaken me, and my wife is barren?’ He answered, ‘Such is the way of Allah: He does what He pleases.’
[3:42] He said, ‘My Lord, appoint a token for me.’ He replied, ‘Thy token shall be that thou shalt not speak to men for three days except by signs. And remember thy Lord much and glorify Him in the evening and in the early morning.’
[3:43] And remember when the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah has chosen thee and purified thee and chosen thee above the women of all peoples.

So innocent Mary was chosen as a Model Woman; neither she was like the Celebrity girls of the West having many boy friends , nor her innocent son Jesus had any girl friends; though he might have had a legitimate wife or more like some say Mary Magdalene, that cannot be denied.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
yeezevee
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by yeezevee »

paarsurrey puts out SOME GIBBERISH from surah-3 of that silly book and writes this RUBBISH

So innocent Mary was chosen as a Model Woman; neither she was like the Celebrity girls of the West having many boy friends , nor her innocent son Jesus had any girl friends; though he might have had a legitimate wife or more like some say Mary Magdalene, that cannot be denied.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
And I say to paarsurrey .. DON'T BEHAVE LIKE A LITTLE RASCAL..

Be Good., Being a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim learn to write Properly "girls of the West having many boy friends" .. Such GENERALIZATION tells me that they are the words of 7th century Muslim mind set of the "THE SPECIES WITH STUNTED IN EVOLUTION" due to 7th century nonsense..

yeezevee
Nosubmission
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Re: Quran mentions Mary as a Model Woman

Post by Nosubmission »

@ paarsurrey the Ahmadi

Your pagan prophet actually hated Mary and disparaged her when he presented her as a role model. A role model for what? Muslim women only? NO WAY! Let's read the whole chapter and understand why Mohammad talked of Mary in Surah 66 by laying an emphasis on her virginity:

O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives ? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Allah hath made lawful for you (Muslims) absolution from your oaths (of such a kind), and Allah is your Protector. He is the Knower, the Wise. When the Prophet confided a fact unto one of his wives and when she afterward divulged it and Allah apprised him thereof, he made known (to her) part thereof and passed over part. And when he told it her she said: Who hath told thee ? He said: The Knower, the Aware hath told me. If ye twain turn unto Allah repentant, (ye have cause to do so) for your hearts desired (the ban); and if ye aid one another against him (Muhammad) then lo! Allah, even He, is his Protecting Friend, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore the angels are his helpers. (Surah 66:1-4)

Comment:
Mohammad has problems due to TWO of his wives.
Mohammad's two wives join forces against him.
Mohammad feels beguiled and lonely.
Mohammad cannot reason properly as he is disappointed and angry. He makes wrong decisions.
Allah interferes and reveals the plots of Mohammad's two wives. Allah tries to comfort Mohammad while trying to intimidate Mohammad's naughty wives.
Allah says Mohammad is not lonely and cannot be deceived because Allah and his angels always support and help him.

It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your stead wives better than you, submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, devout, inclined to fasting, widows and maids. (Surah 66:5)

Comment:
Allah deems it necessary to threaten Mohammad's naughty wives, who devised a plot against him and offended him.
Allah says the world is full of women who are much better than Mohammad's two naughty wives and who would do everything to marry Mohammad. (Those two women must repent and never repeat this kind of a mistake/sin because they need Mohammad whilst Mohammad does not need them.)
Mohammad is unique whereas Mohammad's wives are not.

O ye who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded. (Then it will be said): O ye who disbelieve! Make no excuses for yourselves this day. Ye are only being paid for what ye used to do. O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things. O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end. (Surah 66:6-9)

Comment:
Allah threatens humanity by showing them the bad example of Mohammad's naughty wives.
Mohammad is allowed and commanded to strive against the disbelievers and hypocrites.
Mohammad's two wives were on the brink of becoming disbelievers and hypocrites when they joined forces against Mohammad.
Mohammad must be careful against the alliance of his wives.
Mohammad's two naugty wives must repent sincerely and not offend Mohammad again if they want to enter Paradise.

Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them): Enter the Fire along with those who enter. (Surah 66:10)

Comment:
Allah deems it crucial to make a comparison between Mohammad's TWO naughty wives and the disbelieving wives of his TWO prophets. (Allah reluctantly confesses that Noah & Lot practiced monogamy unlike Mohammad. :D )
Allah asks Mohammad's two wives not to be like Noah and Lot's wives, who ended up in hell fire.

And Allah citeth an example for those who believe: the wife of Pharaoh when she said: My Lord! Build for me a home with thee in the Garden, and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from evil-doing folk. (Surah 66:11)

Comment:

Allah presents Pharaoh's wife as a model for Mohammad's naughty wives and all Muslim women.
Pharaoh's wife wanted to get away from her husband, the Pharaoh.
Pharaoh's wife was much better than Mohammad's two naughty wives.

And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient. (Surah 66:12)

Comment:

Allah presents Jesus' mother Mary as an example for beliving and obedient MAIDENS.
Mary was a virgin and she had no husband. (This is why the only male she is related to is her father, who is claimed to be Imran, the father of Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.)

Let's check the whole Surah once more:

Mohammad's TWO wives (one of them was Aisha) were rebuked and threatened for their hidden alliance.
Allah talked of TWO women (two prophet's disbelieving and betraying wives) as BAD models of faith & obedience.
Allah talked of TWO women (Pharaoh's wife and Imran's daughter) as GOOD models of faith & obedience.

Question: WHY was Mary given as an example of faith & obedience although she was not a woman, but a virgin?
The answer to this question is given in the verse below:

It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your stead wives better than you, submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, devout, inclined to fasting, widows and maids. (Surah 66:5)

Widow: Pharaoh's wife
Maiden: Imran's daughter and Jesus' mother Mary!

This single verse proves that Mohammad fancied Virgin Mary as a great model of believing & obedient virgins for marriage and sex. He recklessly talked of Mary's virginity in his mental masturbations as he regarded Mary as his best candidate for faithful maidens who were ready to please him in bed.

Conslusion: Mohammad was a pervert who tried to defame and offend Mary.
Elohim has come, Allah has vanished
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