paarsurrey wrote:Hi friends
Let us remain focussed on the topic.
OK paarsurrey, let's focus
Neither Jesus ever talked about trinity
Please dont be so ignorant, Read the NT in its entirety instead of spouting nonsense like this.....
Ofcourse the term "trinity" is not there, but the concept was definitely taught by Jesus himself...
Can you show us the term "tawhid" in the koran? I highly doubt it, yet the koran teaches the concept of the unity of allah, does it not?
Please read below with eyes wide open and you will find the concept of the Trinity in this verse. (Bolded for your convenience)
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Do you know of any prophet before Jesus ever said words like this? "All authority in heaven an earth has been given to me" Is not authority reserved for God alone? How dare Jesus, if merely a man say such words? Further more, how can Jesus if not divine, say that he was going to be with them even to the very end of age? Notice "they worshipped him" and he did not stop them from doing it. Where is Paul in this verse? Did Paul write the Gospel of Mathew too?
nor any of the Messengers Prpophetts of the Crator -God Allah YHWH mentioned Trinity.
Remember, forget terminology; it is the concept you should be looking for?
Here read this for starters
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a]
Mighty God - Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace.
Think for a moment, who is this son who was to claim such divine titles and attributes?
Please read the three revelations of God;
Wonderful counselor - the title of holy spirit;
Mighty God Everlasting father- The father;
Prince of Peace, the Title of Jesus - the son.
And yet all these three were to be bestowed upon the one child who was to be born a human.
Can you figure out this verse? This had nothing to do with Paul who was born centuries later.
It is clever Paul and the sinful Church who add words into the ears of the Catholics and Protestands from without the BiBle that they in their fanciful thiking that trinity is mentioned in the Bible.
Wrong! it is the evil koran and con-man Mohammed who has put doubts in your minds.
If Jesus knew that the Jews would unwillingly or willingly cause him to die on the Cross; why did Jesus not mention the Trinity in a straighforward manner?
What difference would that have made? You are forgetting that the concept Jesus revealed was against the Jewish belief because like muslims the Jews could not bear to hear that a mere man was claiming to be God. Jesus infact did mention his divinity and was almost stonned.Please read:
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[m] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Being Human as well as divine, Jesus did not "use" his divinity to save himself, that would have defeated his whole mission. Please reserve your half baked theories for someone else.
John 17: 3
1 These things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
This is really precious... you bring the one verse that would bury your whole case. You take the verse out of context by highlighting the parts that suit you while you ignore the preceeding verses.
Now ask yourself these questions from the verses you produced:
1.Has God given Jesus the power over all flesh? Is that not blasphemy? Should not the power over all flesh be only reserved for God?
2.Which other propher other than Jesus ever say such words. " Glorify me" ....Is not glory reserved for God alone? Who in their right mind would attempt to share the Glory of God?
3." and now glorify me with the glory I had before the world was, with thee" .... Are you blind? Did you purpously ignore these words? What is that supposed to mean? Is not Jesus claiming existence with the father even before the begining of time?
I can't belive you are being willfully stupid by stripping the verse out of its context without even giving the rest some serious thought.
God has bestowed you with a brain, please use it.