Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Debate how Islam compares to other faiths and religions.
paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by paarsurrey »

Brendalee wrote:Astonishing, paarsurrey! Do you realize that what you say is pretty much the opposite of what Christians believe?
Hi friend

Do you mean that the Christian don't believe that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross. So, it is futile to believe that he got resurrected. Hence Jesus was no god; therefore, Trinity is wrong. There was no need of Jesus' death on the Cross; the Christians can get salvation by doing good deeds and having good beliefs.

Am I right?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
KufirbintKufr
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:37 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by KufirbintKufr »

paarsurrey wrote:Hi friend wootah
paarsurrey wrote:Hi friend
Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide."

Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah..."

Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand."

Qur'an (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers"


Quran is a blasphemy against Jesus and Mary.
Galatians 1:7-8
But there are some who trouble (agitate) you, and they would pervert the good news of Christ.
If we or an angel from heaven should preach to you any message other than that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

You know, paarsurrey, I am in the mood for a bit of reading. Perhaps the Quran? Can you direct me to the verses that mention "Jesus" and "Mary"? I must have a duff copy, or I am looking at the wrong verses. I find an Isa and even a Mariam, but NO "Jesus" and no "Mary".

Also can you tell me which Chapter in the Bible (or Quran) that tells the exciting story of Jesus going off to India?

Thanks,

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in the Bible

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friends

Jesus and Mary is European equivalent of Hebrew/Aramaic/Arabic- sister languages. Since the Gospels in original Hebrew/Aramaic - the language Jesus and Maryl spoke have become extinct hence the change.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey wrote:Hi friends

Jesus and Mary is European equivalent of Hebrew/Aramaic/Arabic- sister languages. Since the Gospels in original Hebrew/Aramaic - the language Jesus and Maryl spoke have become extinct hence the change.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
:lol: Any old excuse will do, right? Even linguists and Biblical scholars cannot state with positive certainty what language Jesus spoke. There were many languages spoken in Judea at the time. Did he speak in Hebrew? Did he speak in Aramaic?

This has nothing to do wih the point because "Isa" is NOT derived from the name "Jesus" in any language spoken in Judea at the time. Isa is a completely unrelated made-up name, with no connection. If you wish you claim otherwise, bring your PROOF.

Also, unless memory fails me, it seems the Miriam of the Quran has little to do with the Mary of the Bible; it seems the Miriam of the Quran comes from a different age and has a different family tree. Isn't she the sister of a patriarch from a millenium before Jesus?

So again, where are "Jesus" and "Mary" mentioned in the Quran?

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible.

Thanks

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey wrote:
Brendalee wrote:Astonishing, paarsurrey! Do you realize that what you say is pretty much the opposite of what Christians believe?
Hi friend

Do you mean that the Christian don't believe that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross. So, it is futile to believe that he got resurrected. Hence Jesus was no god; therefore, Trinity is wrong. There was no need of Jesus' death on the Cross; the Christians can get salvation by doing good deeds and having good beliefs.

Am I right?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
No, you are - as usual - completely wrong. What I MEANT by my mocking astonishment was that it is hardly surprising that you claim the opposite of Christianity because you are a TROLL who confusedly thinks that your TU QUOQUE attacks against Christianity somehow makes Islam with its talking ants and bees which eat plants somehow more believable.

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible

Thanks

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

Please point me to the contemporary documents from Jesus's time, that tell the story of Jesus going off to India so I may read it for myself

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible

Thanks

paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Jesus never died a cursed death on Cross; he survived

Post by paarsurrey »

Brendalee wrote:Please point me to the contemporary documents from Jesus' time, that tell the story of Jesus going off to India so I may read it for myself

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible

Thanks
Hi friend Brendalee

Please read the book "Jesus in India" written by the Second Coming, the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 by accessing Ahmadiyya Official Website> library> books> Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. It is available online; please google for it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Jesus never died a cursed death on Cross; he survived

Post by Brendalee »

paarsurrey wrote:
Brendalee wrote:Please point me to the contemporary documents from Jesus' time, that tell the story of Jesus going off to India so I may read it for myself

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible

Thanks
Hi friend Brendalee

Please read the book "Jesus in India" written by the Second Coming, the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 by accessing Ahmadiyya Official Website> library> books> Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. It is available online; please google for it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Hello Dawagandist Troll,

Certainly I might just do that if you can establish that this morally corrupt fraud of yours bases his Jesus-went-to-India assertion on documentary evidence from the TIME of Jesus and not just on his deluded fantasies.

But surely you have the book yourself and I need not waste my money. Kindly cite his New Testament era documents which prove such a thing, so that I might google THEM from an archaeological site and check their authenticity.

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible.

Thanks

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

Brendalee wrote:
paarsurrey wrote:Hi friends

Jesus and Mary is European equivalent of Hebrew/Aramaic/Arabic- sister languages. Since the Gospels in original Hebrew/Aramaic - the language Jesus and Maryl spoke have become extinct hence the change.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
:lol: Any old excuse will do, right? Even linguists and Biblical scholars cannot state with positive certainty what language Jesus spoke. There were many languages spoken in Judea at the time. Did he speak in Hebrew? Did he speak in Aramaic?

This has nothing to do wih the point because "Isa" is NOT derived from the name "Jesus" in any language spoken in Judea at the time. Isa is a completely unrelated made-up name, with no connection. If you wish you claim otherwise, bring your PROOF.

Also, unless memory fails me, it seems the Miriam of the Quran has little to do with the Mary of the Bible; it seems the Miriam of the Quran comes from a different age and has a different family tree. Isn't she the sister of a patriarch from a millenium before Jesus?

So again, where are "Jesus" and "Mary" mentioned in the Quran?

I love Isa and Miriam as mentioned in Bible.

Thanks
I guess you missed this, right?

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Bible.

Thanks

Mujahid
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:41 am

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Mujahid »

Theres a whole chapter in the Qur'an dedicated to Mary the mother of Jesus (pbuh). Sura 19: Maryam. And Jesus (pbuh) is actually mentioned by name 500% (25 to 5) more times in the Qur'an then Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Wouldn't you think that if someone wrote a book of that magnitude by himself, he would mention and glorify himself much more the previous prophets? It says in your own Bible, that there will be many false prophets, but the soul who confesses that Jesus is the Messiah, is of God. Hmmm, who did that? Oh! thats right, the only other person in the history of the world claiming to be a prophet of God that confessed Jesus was the Messiah was Muhammed. Why do you pick and choose which verses you want to believe out of your own "holy book"? If it truly is the word of God, shouldnt you believe it all? And why does the roman catholic bible have 7 more books then the protestant one? Did the protestants throw out 7 books of God's word, or did the catholic church make up 7 books and called them God's word. I eagerly await your answer.

Wootah
Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Wootah »

Mujahid wrote:Theres a whole chapter in the Qur'an dedicated to Mary the mother of Jesus (pbuh). Sura 19: Maryam. And Jesus (pbuh) is actually mentioned by name 500% (25 to 5) more times in the Qur'an then Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).
Yes Mohammad tried to pervert the religion of Christianity to his will and was hoping to trick Christians and Jews to his cause. This trick is attempted on-goingly today.
Wouldn't you think that if someone wrote a book of that magnitude by himself, he would mention and glorify himself much more the previous prophets?
I think there is plenty of evidence that Mohammad's religion was for his own glory. Does not Allah visit Mohammad repeatedly to tell Mohammad he is allowed to take other's wives. What Mohammad wants Allah approves and you aren't sceptical? There is more.
It says in your own Bible, that there will be many false prophets, but the soul who confesses that Jesus is the Messiah, is of God. Hmmm, who did that? Oh! thats right, the only other person in the history of the world claiming to be a prophet of God that confessed Jesus was the Messiah was Muhammed.
Where does Mohammad say Jesus is the saviour? I'm pretty sure Mohammad denies the death and resurrection of Jesus so why lie?
Why do you pick and choose which verses you want to believe out of your own "holy book"? If it truly is the word of God, shouldnt you believe it all?
Who does that? Of course I believe it all.
And why does the roman catholic bible have 7 more books then the protestant one? Did the protestants throw out 7 books of God's word, or did the catholic church make up 7 books and called them God's word. I eagerly await your answer.
Just chuck your question into Google and find out. You can learn about the differences between the Catholics and the Protestants as well if you like.

http://bible.org/article/how-many-books-are-bible" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now my opinion is that unlike Muslims, Christians can all be inspired by God and write inspirational things. However what could I write that would add to the Bible such that the Bible needed what I wrote? This is how the canon was formed, taking clear writings about God and by men inspired by God. Christianity has numerous witnesses to God and Islam has Mohammad ... in a cave.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

Mujahid wrote:Theres a whole chapter in the Qur'an dedicated to Mary the mother of Jesus (pbuh). Sura 19: Maryam. And Jesus (pbuh) is actually mentioned by name 500% (25 to 5) more times in the Qur'an then Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Wouldn't you think that if someone wrote a book of that magnitude by himself, he would mention and glorify himself much more the previous prophets? It says in your own Bible, that there will be many false prophets, but the soul who confesses that Jesus is the Messiah, is of God. Hmmm, who did that? Oh! thats right, the only other person in the history of the world claiming to be a prophet of God that confessed Jesus was the Messiah was Muhammed. Why do you pick and choose which verses you want to believe out of your own "holy book"? If it truly is the word of God, shouldnt you believe it all? And why does the roman catholic bible have 7 more books then the protestant one? Did the protestants throw out 7 books of God's word, or did the catholic church make up 7 books and called them God's word. I eagerly await your answer.
I am not a follower of any organised religion, so you are barking up the wrong tree. "Isa" is mentioned in the Quran; "Jesus" is not. "Marian/Maryam" is mentioned in the Quran - remind us whose sister she is according to the Quran...

Jesus is not mentioned more in the Quran than Mohammad. It is the absolute opposite of your claim. Mohammad got his self-claimed title partnered with your Islamic god, who the Quran repeatedly refers to as Allahandhismessenger. So, you are right. Mohammad obviously wrote the Quran, based on your own reasoning, and mentioned and glorified himself much more than any previous "prophet".

Mujahid
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:41 am

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Mujahid »

haha, that is absolutely wrong my friend, do some research, or even read the Qur'an yourself, Jesus is mentioned many many more times, thats a fact, so that argument is over. The only time that Islam and Christianity differs, is in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and of course also his divinity. We believe in his miraculous birth, we believe he was one of the mightiest messengers of Allah SWT, we believe he healed those born blind and the lepors by Allah's permission and we believe he is the Messiah. The Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the one true God of Abraham, so i dont know why your making the distinction of "the Islamic God". Educate yourself brother, ignorance is a disease.

-Salam

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

There is certainly no one more qualified to talk about ignorance than a Muslim who experiences it firsthand.

Now, you may be unfamiliar with the way debates work, but the person who makes the assertion, especially when it is a particularly silly one, carries the burdon of proof. You asserted that Jesus/Isa is mentioned more times in the Quran than Mohammad. Prove it. Mohammad is CLEARLY the "Messenger" constantly mentioned, and that is repeated ad nauseum throughout the Quran.

And incidentally, it is "your Islamic god" in my view - eg Satan. The self-confessed Liar, according to the Quran.

Let me remind you that I asked you who was Mariam/Maryam's brother according to the Quran.
Last edited by Brendalee on Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

Let me help you out with the question of who was the brother of Maryam according to the Quran. (I would not like to distract you from proving your assertion.) The Quran claims that Aaron is the brother of Maryam, mother of Isa. Oh, and this much is true: Aaron's sister WAS called Mariam/Maryam. Only the IGNORANT Mohammad got confused over Biblical scriptures - Old and New Testament, etc. because Aaron was, of course, living in the days of MOSES - not in the time of Jesus or his mother.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

Oh, and don't think your little "by name" qualifier is not recognised as the deceit it actually is.

Who does the Quran refer to with such terms as Rasool, nabi, or Qul, etc?

Or in more detail, Who is Ya Ayyuha Rasool? Who is Ya Mudathir? Who is Ya Muzzamil? Who is Ya Ayyuha Nabi?

As they say, A rose by any OTHER name is still a rose.

Mujahid
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:41 am

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Mujahid »

to Wootah:
Sura 3 verse 45: Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ (Messiah) Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

Brendalee
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Brendalee »

Mujahid. here is what you said:"Wouldn't you think that if someone wrote a book of that magnitude by himself, he would mention and glorify himself much more the previous prophets?"

He seems to have done very well indeed at mentioning and glorifying himself.

Incidentally, how many names do Muslims give to Mohammad? Isn't it 99 names?

How many names do Muslims give to Allah? Isn't it 99 names?

One of Allah's names is Al-Awwal (the first); this name he shares with Mohammad's name: Awwal.
Allah is also Al-Aakhir (the last); this name he shares with Mohammad's name of Akhir.
Allah is called An-Noor (the light). Mohammad is called Siraj (lamp).

No wonder the Islamic god is called Allahandhismessenger so many times in the Quran. Islam is permeated with Shirk, but it is such a hypocritical belief system, its followers are in denial, loudly proclaiming against shirk but blind to the blatant shirk which is embedded in it!

Mujahid
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:41 am

Re: Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Post by Mujahid »

lol where is your proof for these names of Muhammed? they dont exist, yes there is 99 names of Alaah SWT. Your statement is full of ignorance with no factual basis.

Post Reply