Islam vs. Christianity

Debate how Islam compares to other faiths and religions.
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debunker
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by debunker »

what do you mean you stupid idiot by calling me a "western" Muslim?
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Wootah
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Wootah »

debunker wrote:what do you mean you stupid idiot by calling me a "western" Muslim?
Westernized, having many western values that are not found or promoted widely in the original culture.
- democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....)

The moderate Muslim sees so much good fruit in our culture and eats of it and wants it (all good things no attack meant there) and thinks that Islam is reconcilable with those good fruits.
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Wootah wrote:
debunker wrote:what do you mean you stupid idiot by calling me a "western" Muslim?
Westernized, having many western values that are not found or promoted widely in the original culture.
- democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....)

The moderate Muslim sees so much good fruit in our culture and eats of it and wants it (all good things no attack meant there) and thinks that Islam is reconcilable with those good fruits.
Hi debunker, Wootah and other friends

All human beings are just like a family. There is nothing bad in learning from each others good points. If we speak the same languages; there is no harm in adopting democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....); it may be called adaptability without compromising on Truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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Wootah
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Wootah »

All human beings are just like a family. There is nothing bad in learning from each others good points. If we speak the same languages; there is no harm in adopting democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....); it may be called adaptability without compromising on Truth.
You should become a politician. "Lie lie lie lie lie ... without compromising on truth." I guess it isn't a compromise when you never seek it. Your sect of Islam saw how dumb Islam was compared to Hinduism and tried to mesh them both together, stop pretending otherwise. It's why I like you, a perfect example of being totally blind to the truth.
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

All human beings are just like a family. There is nothing bad in learning from each others good points. If we speak the same languages; there is no harm in adopting democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....); it may be called adaptability without compromising on Truth.
You should become a politician. "Lie lie lie lie lie ... without compromising on truth." I guess it isn't a compromise when you never seek it. Your sect of Islam saw how dumb Islam was compared to Hinduism and tried to mesh them both together, stop pretending otherwise. It's why I like you, a perfect example of being totally blind to the truth.
Hi friend/s

Hinduism if they walk on the truthful path and Revelation that had descended from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, on the heart of Krishna was originally truthful; and in that sense it has no difference with Quran/Islam/Muhammad like it has no difference with Moses , Jesus , Zoroaster, Buddha etc. The forgotten Revelation of all these truthful Messengers of the Creator - God Allah YHWH could be renovated/revived under the principles mentioned in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

This is a matter of satisfaction as all the human beings are just like a family; of course you would agree with me, no compulsion however.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Last edited by paarsurrey on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wootah
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Wootah »

paarsurrey wrote:Hinduism if they walk on the truthful path and Revelation that had descended from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, on the heart of Krisha was originally truthful; and in that sense it has no difference with Quran/Islam/Muhammad like it has no difference with Moses , Jesus , Zoroaster, Buddha etc. The forgotten Revelation of all these truthful Messengers of the Creator - God Allah YHWH could be renovated/revived under the principles mentioned in Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
So do you think the Bab from the Ba'hai faith is a prophet? Do you think Joseph Smith from the Mormon religion was a prophet?
IHSoter
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by IHSoter »

Original sin is not about inheritting anyones sin. This teaching is that we can not inherit the grace of God. Adam was in a state of grace & had union w/ God. He lost this. Thus he could not give to his children what he did not himself have. If is like as if your grandfather was a billionaire. He passed the fortune on to your father but he blew the inheritance on wine, women & song. If he has nothing to pass on to you, you will inherit nothing. It is not a matter of punishing you for the sin of your father.
"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book.
Inside a dog it is too hard to read."
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friends

Adam got married with Eave; if he had not married Eve; there would have been no Mary and no Jesus. If the humans could not get grace; so can't Jesus . The Catholic Protestants have only myths of orignial sin or original grace from clever Paul; Jesus did not mention it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mr Preet
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Mr Preet »

paarsurrey wrote:
Wootah wrote:
debunker wrote:what do you mean you stupid idiot by calling me a "western" Muslim?
Westernized, having many western values that are not found or promoted widely in the original culture.
- democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....)

The moderate Muslim sees so much good fruit in our culture and eats of it and wants it (all good things no attack meant there) and thinks that Islam is reconcilable with those good fruits.
Hi debunker, Wootah and other friends

All human beings are just like a family. There is nothing bad in learning from each others good points. If we speak the same languages; there is no harm in adopting democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, equality (plus more ....); it may be called adaptability without compromising on Truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
...... but the Mo/AHadith/Quran/Islam says not to imitate kuffar lest you be one of them. :D
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Quran/Islam/Mohammad says not to imitate kuffar lest you be one of them.
I don't agree with you. It is not bad to share common good from others; it is not copying anybody, it is walking on the right and truthful path hand in hand with the other peaceful human beings.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

HomerJay wrote:
Obviously, you didn´t listen carefully to what your oh-so-catholic teachers told you about original sin. Neither has it anything to do with the OT "the sins of our fathers", nor is it anything like personal sin. We are born with the PROPENSITY to sin - not in a state of natural grace. OF COURSE we are born without personal sin. It also is the most obviously TRUE christian dogma.
I listened VERY carefully. As a matter of fact, I received the Religion subject award my graduating year at Vancouver College. I remember full well what the party line theological reasoning was for the "stain" of original sin, and I could quote liturgical cliches like the one you did from memory. However, no explanation along the lines of 'propensity" changes the implicit supposition that an infant is born with the STAIN of Adam's original sin, and that one of the effects of Baptism is to wash this slate clean. If original sin truly had no PERSONAL component, there would be no need for the "repair" of baptism, as we all have the PROPENSITY to sin at all times in our lives, before, after, or in spite of Baptism.

I have heard the official explanations from more Brothers, Priests, and Monsignors than I care to remember. As with all things, When reasoning attributed to the Almighty sounds like bunk, I go with me.
Hi friend HomerJay

I am pleased to get introduced with you in this forum. The Christians have been trying to improve upon the Theology invented by clever Paul at Rome and subsequently followed by the sinful Church; irrational as it was, it gets exposed more as it is discussed with reason; until they declare it a mystery that has to be believed by the Catholics Protestants somehow or the other even if they are least convinced by it. Jesus and Mary never believed in it.

I further have to add in line with your argument.

The argument of the Christians that Jesus was sinless and innocent as he was not from the lineage of Adam is incorrect and holds no ground ; Adam's sin which the Christians so play with and say it was hereditary in humans started from Adam; it did not factually originate from Adam but started from Eve (Genesis 3:1-6). It was Eve who was first entrapped by Satin and she later enticed Adam into it; hence Jesus was more sinful because of Eve if the argument holds any water.

Torah says:

Job 25:4-5

1 Then Baldad the Suhite answered, and I said: 2 Power and terror are with him, who maketh peace in his high places. 3 Is there any numbering of his soldiers? and upon whom shall not his light arise? 4 Can man be justified compared with God, or he that is born of a woman appear clean? 5 Behold even the moon doth not shine, and the stars are not pure in his sight.

6 How much less man that is rottenness and the son of man who is a worm?

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/20025.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Job 15:14-15
11 Is it a great matter that God should comfort thee? but thy wicked words hinder this. 12 Why doth thy heart elevate thee, and why dost thou stare with thy eyes, as if they were thinking great things? 13 Why doth thy spirit swell against God, to utter such words out of thy mouth? 14 What is man that he should be without spot, and he that is born of a woman that he should appear just? 15 Behold among his saints none is unchangeable, and the heavens are not pure in his sight.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/20015.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jesus could never believe such an irrational and disrespectful for human being creed; and Jesus never believed it; it was weird Mythology of clever Paul and the sinful Church.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Last edited by paarsurrey on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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charleslemartel
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by charleslemartel »

paarsurrey wrote: I am pleased to get introduced to you in this forum. The Christians have been trying to improve on the Theology invented by Paul at Rome and subsequently followed by the Church; irrational as it was.....
Coming from a Muslim that is truly hilarious!!!

:roflmao:
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

The Theology invented by clever Paul at Rome " of the alleged original sin of Adam becoming hereditary in humans" and subsequently followed by the sinful Church; irrational as it was, it gets exposed more as it is discussed with reason; until they declare it a mystery that has to be believed by the Catholics Protestants somehow or the other even if they are least convinced by it. Jesus and Mary never believed in it.
Hi friends

I think my Atheist and Agnostic friends here would agree with me on the contents of the above passage.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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HomerJay
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by HomerJay »

parrsurrey:
The Christians have been trying to improve upon the Theology invented by clever Paul at Rome and subsequently followed by the sinful Church;
To say that "clever" Paul invented the ENTIRE "sinful" Church strains the credulity of even the most ardent anti-Christian. You are extrapolating from minutae. I
find some fault in everything (except for myself and of course the Quran), yet I don't chuck out every baby with the bath water. Nothing is perfect (except
Mohammed and the Quran), everyone and everything has faults. People are weak and self-serving. The trick is to try to seperate the wheat from the chaff in texts
and traditions that may have have gone through the hands of self-serving or incompetent people.

When I read about Baptism requiring a "personal invitation to God's Penance and Grace", it sounds to me like bunk meant to encourage enrollment in the Church. Does
that influence my estimation of Christ? Course not. It just lowers my regard for some guys long ago in funny hats. All accounts agree that Christ never selected
single, chaste men for his disciples or for his first representative (Peter), the Church out of the blue then decides Christ wants his "apostles" in the clergy to be
celibate. When the official reason sounds less plausible that the practical, cynical one re inheritence, I tend to dismiss that particular edict as another case of
Humans Is Doofuses. And all one needs to do is study the histories of the Borgia popes to predict what I think of Papal Infallibility (even restricted to matters of Canon Law).
I mean, look at Peter, that Rock, disowning Jesus 3 times after getting the promotion. If only the bible were as protected for all time as the quran (I mean those copies that
were saved from Uthman's burning).

"Discrimination" has become a curse word. It was not always so. One used to say "that fellow has a dicriminating palate", or "he's a sharp fellow, very
discriminating". PC usage aside, one needs this old-fashioned usage of the term when considering organized religions. In this world, for every Mother Teresa there
is a Rodrigo and Victor Borgia. One can never be absolutely sure about any ancient text. Of course faith is involved, but that should always be tempered with caution. Were
I to read a new Gospel of Wendel that said Jesus loved the taste of mesquite when grilling his dinner, and that I should only use Papal Pride Mesquite Charcoal
Briquettes, I would be understandably wary as to its authenticity, as it is so out of keeping with the bulk of what is attributed to Christ. Alternatively, when I
read the supposedly "heretical" gospel that attributed Christ as saying "You will not find me in mansions of wood and stone. Lift a rock and you will find me.
Split a piece of wood and I am there". This sounds EXACTLY like something JC would have said, and something any monolithic Church would be terrified of.

Of course ambitious men have edited holy texts for their own purposes, and overemphasized tertiary or secondary at best aspects of religions to better position themselves.
And Muslims in particular have the absolutist attitude that if ANY part of their book or Prophet is deemed to be imperfect then their worldview comes crashing down. So much easier
to trust absolutely in the inviolability of the holy texts. Without this immutability, they would need to debate and study and discriminate truth from political and xenophobic
fictions. Very arduous for the layman and DISASTER to the infallible Caliph. So OF COURSE you would conclude that possible discrepencies or even outright
fabrications by early Church leaders necessarily have created a "Sinful Church".

And, as this thread is about comparisons with Islam, something some here refuse to do due to a sort of theological myopia ( Maybe that's why vampires can't see their
own reflection - "I don't see anything wrong":) When it comes to certain violent or intolerant attitudes of those who "misunderstand Islam", I find it hard to
believe that all the verses that some of those "hot-heads" justify their actions with are, indeed, "inauthentic". I say this because there are so so very many
of them in so many different biographical collections that Occam's Razor suggests they are telling the truth. Were I to read one account of Jesus or Ghandi or
Buddha beheading an entire town I would tend to dismiss it as a malicious fabrication, but if attributed to Mohammed, it would seem to fit right in with the rest of
the narrative.
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Buddha beheading an entire town I would tend to dismiss it as a malicious fabrication, but if attributed to Mohammed, it would seem to fit right in with the rest of the narrative
Hi friends

That shows the bias of the poster.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

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Wootah
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Wootah »

Paarsurrey, You are a peace loving Ahmadi, Mohammed was a violent and brutal war monger. Heck I would say you are a better choice for a prophet. Wake up.
paarsurrey
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friends

Muhammad is the Prince of Peace as was Moses a Prince of Peace or Krishna was Prince of Peace; they did not budge against Untruth. I am just a humble servant of Muhammad at service for humanity.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wootah
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Wootah »

paarsurrey wrote:Hi friends

Muhammad is the Prince of Peace as was Moses a Prince of Peace or Krishna was Prince of Peace; they did not budge against Untruth. I am just a humble servant of Muhammad at service for humanity.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Paarsurrey, You are a peace loving Ahmadi, Mohammed was a violent and brutal war monger. Heck I would say you are a better choice for a prophet. Wake up.
paarsurrey
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by paarsurrey »

Hi friend

I think I have already replied your post of the similiar wording.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wootah
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Re: Islam vs. Christianity

Post by Wootah »

paarsurrey wrote:Hi friend

I think I have already replied your post of the similiar wording.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
Paarsurrey, You are a peace loving Ahmadi, Mohammed was a violent and brutal war monger. Heck I would say you are a better choice for a prophet. Wake up.
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