Islam vs. Christianity

Debate how Islam compares to other faiths and religions.
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debunker
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Islam vs. Christianity

Post by debunker »

@ JAH

these videos are stupid. Granted they are liars, not because they claim to be converts from Islam to Christianity, but rather for their lies about how their prayers started being answered once they converted! Like the woman who was healed miraculously or the other one who was in need of money and found an envelop with $500 for her after she found Jesus! :lol: Ooooh I'm so convinced myself I'm seriously contemplating conversion to Christianity!

BTW, sites like answering-Islam.com has many full-pledged Christian liars who are capable of descending to the level of pretending to have been ex-Muzlimz...


Dearest S!
So your problem is you don't think they say 'Muslim" properly? and that made then "fake" Muslims ? get real, i know you Muslims don't believe people leave Islam but they do, get use to it.
Well, I don't think JAH finds it hard to believe that Muslims are leaving Islam but rather that they could stomach Christian theology. :wacko:

See, Muslims are used, all their lives, to believe in a simple theological idea: God is One and we should worship Him alone and only through His infinite mercy we could be saved.

The sophisticated, deeply philosophical idea that God killed "Himself" to appease "Himself" is beyond the simplistic Muslim mind. Our esteemed member, Trojan asserted this in one of his posts. Here, let me quote him for you:
What theological level? Islam's theology is summed up in belief in one God! period. That is a no brainer......
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1773&start=50#p27452" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So as you can see, many Muslim minds have never been exposed to intellectually tickling religious ideas like the Christian ones. And after years of numbness the Muslim mind is not able to fathom the idea that God cannot forgive sins UNLESS He killed Himself first! So, those Muslims who convert to Christianity must be the few brainy ones. :roflmao:

This kind of deliciously hallucinogenic religious ideas make shallow and not so brainy atheists, like CM, not only reject God, but also ignorantly ridicule the deeply philosophical notion of salvation. See for yourself here:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2216&start=30#p41617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


PS. As for the Hamas kid, his story sounds very genuine but what did you expect? He was severly shocked when he witnessed the true nature of the most excellent thugs he used to admire... I even think he converted to Christianity to spite them... give him some time and he'll convert to another religion: Atheism.
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crazymonkie_
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by crazymonkie_ »

debunker wrote:these videos are stupid. Granted they are liars, not because they claim to be converts from Islam to Christianity, but rather for their lies about how their prayers started being answered once they converted! Like the woman who was healed miraculously or the other one who was in need of money and found an envelop with $500 for her after she found Jesus! :lol: Ooooh I'm so convinced myself I'm seriously contemplating conversion to Christianity!
I like to call that kind of stuff spiritual pornography. The framework of a lot of conversion stories is eerily similar to those in adult movies/books. It's also unfortunately one of the big reasons for the start of the 'prosperity gospel' movement.
Well, I don't think JAH finds it hard to believe that Muslims are leaving Islam but rather that they could stomach Christian theology. :wacko:
ALL theology is wacky. If you can find one that's not internally contradictory- seriously, any- when simple logic is applied to it, without having to invoke the 'mystery of god' argument, I'd be incredibly impressed.
See, Muslims are used, all their lives, to believe in a simple theological idea: God is One and we should worship Him alone and only through His infinite mercy we could be saved.

Which, minus the love and the idea of the 'ultimate sacrifice,' to me doesn't really seem that different. It's like: What's the difference between Catholics and Baptists? Well- magisterium, more sacraments, saints and Mary ADORATION (let's not go over this HERE again, 'kay?), and until the Vat 2, much less a focus on personal relating with god (not personal *relationship* with god necessarily- but how one deals with scripture and gives praise to god.) That's about it. Between Muslims- depending on the sect, of course- and Christians of any type, the differences are bigger... but I don't see massive differences. The differences are like the differences between French and Russian, not French and Mandarin Chinese.
This kind of deliciously hallucinogenic religious ideas make shallow and not so brainy atheists, like CM, not only reject God, but also ignorantly ridicule the deeply philosophical notion of salvation. See for yourself here:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2216&start=30#p41617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'd say 'ignorantly' would only be the case if it made sense. She didn't answer my questions, note- just came up with some verses that *may* have implied that god demands perfection of humans. Which actually were probably taken out of context anyway- and even if they weren't, they said 'HOLY.' Is holy perfect? I doubt it- though I'd have to ask some rabbis. Point is- this isn't exactly bizarre and laughable- to question the idea that god sacrificed himself to himself, and to point out that it's really a pointless sacrifice.

You did notice my 'half-second of pain' example, right? Didn't get an answer at that either. Just a dodge and some vaguely interpretable verses.

So not so brainy? Riiiiiight. I'M the one that needs to explain this, and it's been SO well explained that it's a closed issue?

Before you answer, please do remember: Just because a bunch of people repeat an answer for a long time, and more believe it, doesn't make it true.

*Edit*: I misunderstood what debunker was trying to say here; the points above still stand, but I didn't get that he was more or less with me./*edit*
PS. As for the Hamas kid, his story sounds very genuine but what did you expect? He was severly shocked when he witnessed the true nature of the most excellent thugs he used to admire... I even think he converted to Christianity to spite them... give him some time and he'll convert to another religion: Atheism.
Emphasis mine. When Larry Flynt, Camille Paglia, Richard Dawkins and I can agree on anything more coherent than where we'll eat for dinner, should we meet and go out for dinner, you'll have a case for atheism as a religion.
Last edited by crazymonkie_ on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by debunker »

I'd say 'ignorantly' would only be the case if it made sense. She didn't answer my questions, note- just came up with some verses that *may* have implied that god demands perfection of humans. Which actually were probably taken out of context anyway- and even if they weren't, they said 'HOLY.' Is holy perfect? I doubt it- though I'd have to ask some rabbis. Point is- this isn't exactly bizarre and laughable- to question the idea that god sacrificed himself to himself, and to point out that it's really a pointless sacrifice.
CM? It seems above that you didn't get that I was being sarcastic?! Is it so hard to see? I was saying: "yeah, only smart Muzlimz convert to Christianity, yeah right!". "And only not so smart atheists, can't see the "brilliance" of the sacrifice." I was mocking the idea. And I provided a link to your post because I found it truly wonderful!

You know what your problem is CM? You're a bit to energetic.. lower it down a bit and stay away from coffee, ok? Coffee is not good for people like you.
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ygalg
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by ygalg »

off topic:

@JihadAgainstHate
in your signiture you display a qoute from Psalms 9:19-20
"Strike them with terror O LORD."

bizarre I cannot find it? but this is what I do find:
19. For the needy shall not be forgotten forever, neither shall the hope of the poor be lost to eternity.
20. Arise, O Lord; let man have no power. May the nations be judged for Your anger.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16230
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer
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Trojan
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by Trojan »

debunker wrote:
So as you can see, many Muslim minds have never been exposed to intellectually tickling religious ideas like the Christian ones. And after years of numbness the Muslim mind is not able to fathom the idea that God cannot forgive sins UNLESS He killed Himself first!

debunker,
Ofcourse He could forgive sin if he chose to but the question is, would that be just decision?
When was the last time you saw a judge simply slap you on the wrist if you were caught red handed by a camera speeding through an intersection on a red light. And if he actually did would that be fair?
BTW, "God did not kill himself to appease himself" because Christians do not believe that the 'man' Jesus was God, but just like the koran states, He contained the spirit of God, like no other ever did in the history of the world. Can you show me from the koran where any other prophet is given the title of Ruhallh, or Kalimullah?
So, those Muslims who convert to Christianity must be the few brainy ones. :roflmao:
This kind of deliciously hallucinogenic religious ideas make shallow and not so brainy atheists, like CM, not only reject God, but also ignorantly ridicule the deeply philosophical notion of salvation. See for yourself here:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2216&start=30#p41617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Although CM did not get your sarcasm, it seems obvious that you are being quite condescending towards the athiest mindset. You seem to run quite often to the aid of the athiest's viewpoint when you "need" their logic in the condemnation of Christianity.
The fact of the matter is that the simplistic notion of Islam is indeed for the intellectually depraved, when it is obvious that Islam offers nothing new. All the rituals are borrowed from ancient paganism, the scriptures are plagerized from Judiasm, Christianity, and Zoroastriasm, and the notion of one God is not unique to Islam as Muslims often like to claim.
So You see if you put your mind to it, Mohammed brought nothing new but simply put to boil existing notions and ideas, concocting his own new version of old ideas.
Muslims can't stand the idea that some Muslims 'actually think' about these meaningless things and eventually leave the religion of Islam, because (like an onion) once all these borrowed and stolen ideas are peeled of off Islam what is left at the core is what makes you weep with disgust.
PS. As for the Hamas kid, his story sounds very genuine but what did you expect? He was severly shocked when he witnessed the true nature of the most excellent thugs he used to admire... I even think he converted to Christianity to spite them... give him some time and he'll convert to another religion: Atheism.
Even if he ^ does, at least he will have been true to himself. Initially after he did some thinking, he decided that Islam was indeed a lie. That is his first step. What about you? How honest are you ? You know that Islam has some wierd practices and unanswered questions yet you stubbornly adhere? You know from various threads that you have left unanswered that infact there are no answers.

1.You have no answer as to the reason allah does not object to the daily veneration of a black stone at the corner of the kaaba. Do you know why this idol worship is permitted, or the reason for its veneration? Yet you are still a Muslim.

2.The reason that allah "prays" for (or to?) Mohammed here
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2282=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
to which you say:
salat means prayer as well as forgiveness (among other meanings)
When I say "Salla Allahu alaihi wa Sallam"
I'm simply saying: "May God forgive his sins and give him peace".
:roflmao: You KNOW that this literally means that allah prayed to or for Mohammed, yet you justify it with your stupidity above.

"Muslims are the first victims of Islam, to liberate them from this religion is the best service that one can render them..."
Ernest Renan (1823-1892)
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by debunker »

Ofcourse He could forgive sin if he chose to but the question is, would that be just decision?
When was the last time you saw a judge simply slap you on the wrist if you were caught red handed by a camera speeding through an intersection on a red light. And if he actually did would that be fair?
If I stole from someone and God forgave me this sin then that is NOT fair. God will punish me for it (but not for eternity). If I sinned against God without hurting anyone (for example, broke fast, or whatever) and He forgave my sin, then YES it is JUSTICE.

But when God kills someone else (Jesus) in order for Him to forgive me, that's called JUSTICE?! Justice towards whom?! Why kill His son to forgive me? How is this justice? Not only didn't He punish me, He punished someone else! (Himself/His Son). Now how retarded is that?
BTW, "God did not kill himself to appease himself" because Christians do not believe that the 'man' Jesus was God, but just like the koran states, He contained the spirit of God, like no other ever did in the history of the world. Can you show me from the koran where any other prophet is given the title of Ruhallh, or Kalimullah?
Well, according to the Bible Jesus is NOT God, that much is true, but according to many Christians, Jesus is God. Anyway, Adam (according to the Quran) is another example of God breathing in him from His Soul. Besides, Jesus was NOT called Ruhallah. Ruhallah is the the Holy Spirit that was sent to all the prophets.
Although CM did not get your sarcasm, it seems obvious that you are being quite condescending towards the athiest mindset.
The only thing I don't understand about Atheists is why aren't they Deists?
You seem to run quite often to the aid of the athiest's viewpoint when you "need" their logic in the condemnation of Christianity.
Quite often? I did it only once, in this thread, and only because CM's post in the other thread was too attractive not to refer to.
The fact of the matter is that the simplistic notion of Islam is indeed for the intellectually depraved, when it is obvious that Islam offers nothing new.
:lol: Why does it have to offer anything "novel"? What's important is the truth about God. He was One God since forever and will stay One God till forever.
All the rituals are borrowed from ancient paganism, the scriptures are plagerized from Judiasm, Christianity, and Zoroastriasm, and the notion of one God is not unique to Islam as Muslims often like to claim.
Muslims claimed the notion of God is unique to Islam?! Actually, the Quranic claim is that the notion of submission to One God is as ancient as humanity itself.

So, no the Quran does NOT claim orginial theology. Muhammed claims to be a reformist and that the idea of submission to One God is NOT new AT ALL but it rather confirms what's in the scriptures.

46:9 Say: I am NO NEW thing among the messengers, nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that which is inspired in me, and I am but a plain warner.
So You see if you put your mind to it, Mohammed brought nothing new but simply put to boil existing notions and ideas, concocting his own new version of old ideas.
Muslims can't stand the idea that some Muslims 'actually think' about these meaningless things and eventually leave the religion of Islam, because (like an onion) once all these borrowed and stolen ideas are peeled of off Islam what is left at the core is what makes you weep with disgust.
That's PRECIOUS! Only idiot Muslims would think that Islam has to come with ORIGINAL ideas! See above.
Even if he ^ does, at least he will have been true to himself. Initially after he did some thinking, he decided that Islam was indeed a lie. That is his first step.
No. The idiot was a Muslim only because his "brothers" were Muslims. But after the true nature of the criminals was revealed to him (although it is obvious they're criminals blowing civilians in restaurants and buses) he decided that he doesn't want to be their "brother" anymore.
What about you? How honest are you ? You know that Islam has some wierd practices and unanswered questions yet you stubbornly adhere? You know from various threads that you have left unanswered that infact there are no answers.
I did leave Islam once. But I didn't become an atheist, an agnostic, nor a Christian. I became a Deist. But, it was very uncomfortable to me and I came back to Islam. Yes, I have doubts about the Quran, but my doubts about the Bible are a 1000 times more suffocating.
You KNOW that this literally means that allah prayed to or for Mohammed, yet you justify it with your stupidity above.
Ahhhh! Now you're being impolite, so I'll have to descend to the same level. Listen you fucktard, even Aksel, who is a critic of Islam laughs at your stupidity, trying to assert that God prays to someone else for Muhammed! Now, buzz off!
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by crazymonkie_ »

debunker wrote:You know what your problem is CM? You're a bit to energetic.. lower it down a bit and stay away from coffee, ok? Coffee is not good for people like you.
LOL!

Good point. Seriously.

Ah well- this is just one of those 'things,' you know? Happens all the time when people are talking online and not in person.
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by debunker »

@ yaglag

Oh please forgive JAH. He must have got his information from Western Bibles. Check this for yourself.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=31" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@ JAH

Change your evil signature and replace it with a love-filled verse from the New Testament, See for example:

2 Corinthians 6:14-15
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers (infidels). For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?

OR

2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

If you want some more verses from the NT filled with compassion, you have but to ask.
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godxilla
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by godxilla »

debunker wrote:Change your evil signature and replace it with a love-filled verse from the New Testament, See for example:
Why need to quote a so-called holly book that had been altered by kuffars? You can only find two if you used Jesus' teachings. Instead, used the real ones from Allâh your deity will yuh. They are oh so friggin plenty plentyfull enough to stuff the vacant areas between your ears:

[*2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain... [*2.179] ...there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.

[*2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[*2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[*2.193]...fight with them...[194]...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you...

[*2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you...[*2.217]... fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter...persecution is graver than slaughter... [*2.218]...strove hard in the way of Allah…

[*2.244] ...fight in the way of Allah

[*3.121]...to lodge the believers in encampments for war...[*3.122] When two parties from among you had determined that they should show cowardice [about Jihad]...[*3.123]...Allah did certainly assist you at [the Battle of] Badr...[*3.124]...[*3.125] Yea! if you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels. [3.126] ...victory is only from Allah...

[*3.140] If a wound has afflicted you (at [the Battle of] Uhud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you...[3.141] ...that He [Allah] may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. [3.142] Yusuf Ali: Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without God testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? [3.143] Pickthall: And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it [death] with your eyes!

[3.146] Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah’s way) [Jihad], and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah’s way [lost a battle], nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in.

[3.152]...you slew them by His [Allah’s] permission [during a Jihad battle]...[3.153] Pickthall: ...the messenger, in your rear, was calling you (to fight)...that which ye missed [war spoils]...[3.154]...They say: Had we any hand in the affair, we would not have been slain here [in a Jihad battle]. Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained [in a Jihad battle] would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain...[*3.155] (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met...[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain...[3.157]...if you are slain in the way of Allah...mercy is better than what they amass [what those who stay home from Jihad receive – no booty on earth and no perks in heaven]. [3.158] …if indeed you die or you are slain, certainly to Allah shall you be gathered together.

[*3.165]...you [Muslims] had certainly afflicted (the unbelievers) with twice as much [in a Jihad battle]...[*3.166]...when the two armies met ([the Battle of] Uhud)...[*3.167]...Come, fight in Allah’s way, or defend yourselves...If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you...

[*3.169] ...reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];

[3.172] …those who responded (at [the Battle of] Uhud) to the call of Allah and the Apostle after a wound had befallen them…shall have a great reward. [*3.173] Those to whom the people said: Surely men have gathered against you [in battle], therefore fear them, but this increased their faith, and they said: Allah is sufficient for us and most excellent is the Protector.

[*3.195] ...who fought and were slain...I will most certainly make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; a reward from Allah, and with Allah is yet better reward.

[*4.71] ...go forth in detachments or go forth in a body [to war]. [*4.72] ...hang back [from Jihad] ...not present with them [in Jihad].

[*4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [*4.75]...fight in the way of Allah... [*4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan...[*4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them... Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us? ...

[*4.84] Fight then in Allah’s way...rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve...

[*4.89] …take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back [to their homes], then seize them and kill them wherever you find them... [4.90] Allah has not given you a way against them [Allah supposedly does not allow Muslims to fight people friendly to Muslims]. [*4.91]...seize them and kill them wherever you find them...

[*4.94]...when you go to war in Allah's way... [*4.95] ...those who strive hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal...Allah shall grant to the strivers [i.e., Jihadist] above the holders back a mighty reward.

[*4.100] ...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah... [4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [*4.102] ...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms... [4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times. [*4.104] ...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy...

[4.141] Sher Ali: …If you have a victory [in Jihad] from Allah…

[*5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned [Pickthall and Yusuf Ali have “exiled” rather than “imprisoned”]

[*5.35] … strive hard [at Jihad] in His way that you may be successful.

[5.82] …...you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews [compare with “whenever Jews kindle fire for war, Allah [Muslims] puts it out” (K 005:064)] and those who are polytheists [while they are converted to Islam on pain of death]...

[8.1] Pickthall: ...the spoils of war...The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger

[*8.5] Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your house with the truth, though a party of the believers were surely averse;

[*8.7] .. ...Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers.

[*8.9] ...I will assist you [in Jihad] with a thousand of the angels following one another [see K 008:012]. [8.10] …Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[*8.12] …...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[*8.15] ...when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. [*8.16] ...for the sake of fighting... [*8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote [Allah gets the credit for Jihad]...

[*8.39] Shakir: ...fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah... [8.40] Yusuf Ali: If they [unbelievers] refuse [to stop fighting], be sure that God is your Protector...[8.41] Shakir: ...whatever thing [loot] you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle...the day on which the two parties met [in a Jihad versus anti-Jihad battle]...[*8.42]...Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done, that he who would perish might perish by clear proof [bring success to Muslims engaged in robbing a caravan near Badr against all the odds]...[8.43]...Allah showed them [the Mekkans] to you in your dream as few [fighters]; and if He had shown them [the Mekkans] to you as many [fighters] you would certainly have become weak-hearted [i.e., hearts. See the similar discussion in K 002:249 about how a smaller army can defeat a larger army]...[8.44]...when you met, as few [fighters] in your eyes and He made you to appear little [few fighters] in their eyes, in order that Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done [a Jihad versus anti-Jihad battle brought on by overconfidence in each side]...[*8.45]...when you meet a party [in battle], then be firm...[8.46]...obey Allah and His Apostle and do not quarrel for then you will be weak in hearts [demoralized] and your power [to execute Jihad] will depart...[8.47]...be not like those [Mekkans] who came forth from their homes [to fight Muslims]...[8.48]...when the two parties [Muslims versus Mekkans] came in sight of each other he [Satan] turned upon his heels...

Pickthall: [8.57] If thou come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember. [8.57] Khalifa: When you are betrayed by a group of people, you shall mobilize against them in the same manner. GOD does not love the betrayers. [*8.59] Shakir: ...let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape. [8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah’s way [for Jihad]...

[*8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand [in other words, “do not understand totalitarian ideologies like Islam”]. [8.66] ...if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission... [*8.67] It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods [i.e., ransom money] of this world... [8.68] ...ransom... [*8.69] Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war [war spoils]... [8.70] O Prophet! say to those of the captives [non-Muslims] who are in your hands: If Allah knows anything good in your hearts, He will give to you better than that which has been taken away from you [in Jihad]…[*8.71] Yusuf Ali: But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Apostle!)…He [Allah] given (thee) power over them…[*8.72] Yusuf Ali: Those who …fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of God…[8.73] Yusuf Ali: The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief. [*8.74] Yusuf Ali:…fight for the Faith…[*8.75] Yusuf Ali: …fight for the Faith…

[*9.5] ...slay the idolaters wherever you find them...take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush...

[*9.12] ...fight the leaders of unbelief...[*9.13] What! will you not fight a people...[*9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

[*9.16] …...those of you who have struggled hard [in Jihad]

[*9.19] ...strives hard in Allah’s way?... [*9.20]...strove hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their souls...

[*9.24] ...striving in His way [Jihad]:, then wait till Allah brings about His command [to go on Jihad]: ... [*9.25] Certainly Allah helped you in many battlefields and on the day of [the Battle of] Hunain, when your great numbers made you vain, ... [*9.26] ...chastised those who disbelieved [Muhammad gives credit to angels and Allah for the actions of Jihadists]...

[*9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[*9.36] ...fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together...

[*9.38] ...Go forth in Allah's way [to Jihad]… [*9.39] If you do not go forth [to go on Jihad], He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you [to go on Jihad]...

[*9.41] Go forth light [lightly armed] and heavy [heavily armed], and strive hard in Allah’s way [Jihad] with your property and your persons...

[*9.44] ...striving hard with their property and their persons [Jihad] ...

[*9.52]...Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands...

[*9.73] ...strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them...

[*9.81] ...they were averse from striving in Allah’s way [Jihad] with their property and their persons, and said: Do not go forth [to Jihad] in the heat...

[*9.83] ... shall you fight an enemy with me [in Jihad]...

[*9.86] ...strive hard [in Jihad] along with His Apostle

[*9.88] ...strive hard [in Jihad] with their property and their persons...

[*9.92] Yusuf Ali: Nor (is there blame) on those who came to thee to be provided with mounts [saddles on which to go to war], and when thou said, “I can find no mounts for you,” they turned back, their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no resources wherewith to provide the expenses [to go on Jihad].

[*9.111] ...they fight in Allah’s way, so they slay and are slain...

[*9.120] Yusuf Ali:...whether they suffered thirst, or fatigue, or hunger, in the cause of Allah [while on a march to Jihad], or trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers [invade their territory], or received any injury whatever from an enemy [during a Jihad battle] ...

[*9.122] Pickthall:...the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth... [*9.123] ...fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness...

[*16.110] Yusuf Ali:...who thereafter strive and fight for the faith and patiently persevere...

[*22.39] Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made...

[22.58] Sher Ali: ...those who leave their homes for the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die, Allah will, surely, provide for them a goodly provision...

[*22.78]...strive hard [in Jihad] in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him...

[24.53]...they would certainly go forth [to Jihad (see K 024:055)]...

[24.55] Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth [as a reward for going on Jihad (see K 024:053)]...

[25.52] Palmer: ...fight strenuously with them in many a strenuous fight.

[*29.6]...whoever strives hard [in Jihad], he strives only for his own soul...

[*29.69] ...(as for) those who strive hard [in Jihad] for Us...

[33.15] Pickthall: ...they had already sworn unto Allah that they would not turn their backs (to the foe) [in Jihad battle]...

[*33.18] ...they come not to the fight [Jihad] but a little...

[*33.20] they would not fight save a little [in Jihad].

[33.23] Pickthall: ...Some of them [Jihadists] have paid their vow by death (in battle), and some of them still are waiting…

[*33.25]...Allah sufficed the believers in fighting… [*33.26]...some [Jews] you killed and you took captive another part. [33.27]...He made you heirs to their [Jewish] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden…

[33.50]...those [captive women] whom your right hand possesses [i.e., by virtue of the sword used in Jihad] out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war...

[42.39] Sale:…and who, when an injury is done them, avenge themselves…

[47.4] ...when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates...(as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah...

[*47.20] ...fighting [allusion to Jihad] is mentioned therein ...

[47.35] Rodwell: Be not fainthearted then; and invite not the infidels to peace when ye have the upper hand: for God is with you, and will not defraud you of the recompense of your works.

[48.15] Pickthall: ...when you set forth to capture booty...[*48.16]...You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit...[48.17] Pickthall: There is no blame...for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeys Allah and His messenger [by going on Jihad], He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turns back [from Jihad], him will He punish with a painful doom. [48.18] Certainly Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance to you under the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down tranquility on them and rewarded them with a near victory, [48.19] And much booty that they will capture. Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. [48.20] Allah promised you many acquisitions which you will take, then He hastened on this one for you and held back the hands of men from you, and that it may be a sign for the believers and that He may guide you on a right path. [48.21] Sale: And [he also promiseth you] other [spoils], which ye have not [yet] been able [to take]: But now hath God encompassed them [for you]; and God is almighty. [*48.22] And if those who disbelieve fight with you, they would certainly turn (their) backs, then they would not find any protector or a helper. [48.23] Such [i.e., the Jihad mentioned the previous verse] has been the course [practice] of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah’s course. [48.24] And He [Allah] it is Who held back...your hands from them [in Jihad] in the valley of Mecca...

[49.15] Sale: ...true believers ...employ their substance and their persons in the defense of God’s true religion...

[*59.2] ...the hands of the believers [i.e. Muslims demolished Jewish homes] ...

Pickthall:[*59.5] Whatsoever palm-trees you cut down or left standing on their roots [during a Jihad siege of the Jews at Madina], it was by Allah’s leave, in order that He might confound the evil-livers [Jews]. [*59.6] ...that which Allah gave as spoil unto His messenger from them, you urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof, but Allah gives His messenger lordship over whom He will... [*59.7] That which Allah gives as [war] spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships [Jews], it is for Allah and His messenger...whatsoever [spoils] the messenger gives you, take it...[*59.8] ...who seek bounty [war spoils] from Allah...

[*59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls...

[*60.9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion [no fraternizing with the enemy]...

[*61.4] ...Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall.

[61.11] ...struggle hard in Allah’s way [Jihad] with your property and your lives...

[61.13] ...victory [in Jihad] near at hand...
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by godxilla »

Debunked wrote:If I stole from someone and God forgave me this sin then that is NOT fair. God will punish me for it (but not for eternity). If I sinned against God without hurting anyone (for example, broke fast, or whatever) and He forgave my sin, then YES it is JUSTICE.
If God wants to kill himself or his son, then it's up to him. But if Allâh wants to kill me because I'm an infidel, NOW THAT'S BECOME MY PROBLEM. More over when he ordered Muslims to kill infidels as the way to reach Islamic heaven.

(9:111) Surely Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their belongings and in return has promised that they shall have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, and slay and are slain. Such is the promise He has made incumbent upon Himself in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Qur'an. Who is more faithful to his promise than Allah? Rejoice then, in the bargain you have made with Him. That indeed is the might triumph.

(4:74) Let those who seek the life of the Next World in exchange for the life of this world fight in the way of Allah. We shall grant a mighty reward to whoever fights in the way of Allah, whether he is slain or comes out victorious.

(4:95) Those believers who sit at home, unless they do so out of a disabling injury, are not the equals of those who strive in the way of Allah with their possessions and their lives. Allah has exalted in rank those who strive with their possessions and their lives over those who sit at home; and though to each Allah has promised some good reward, He has preferred those who strive (in the way of Allah) over those who sit at home for a mighty reward.

Hahaha... reward in heaven guaranteed as long as Mulims died while trying to kill invidels in Allâh's cause. For Muslim's brain like yours, this is JUSTICE right? Hahaha... retard oh retard... :tongueout:
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

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Why need to quote a so-called holly book that had been altered by kuffars? You can only find two if you used Jesus' teachings. Instead, used the real ones from Allâh your deity will yuh. They are oh so friggin plenty plentyfull enough to stuff the vacant areas between your ears:
Listen idiot. I didn't find ONLY two. The first two thirds of your HOLY Bible is a frigging horror book. The last third is a boring piece of crap full of contradictions.... now tell me idiot, do you want more verses of love from both the NT and the OT? I will oblige. Otherwise, buzz off!
Hahaha... reward in heaven guaranteed as long as Mulims died while trying to kill invidels in Allâh's cause. For Muslim's brain like yours, this is JUSTICE right? Hahaha... retard oh retard...
I just saw this. Tell me retard, what do you think of Yahweh ordering the Israelites to kill everyone breathing in the Promised Land? Justice, Huh? What about burning crops/animals and even humans as offerings to Yahweh?
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godxilla
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by godxilla »

debunker wrote:Listen idiot. I didn't find ONLY two. The first two thirds of your HOLY Bible is a frigging horror book.
Why bother examining so-called holly books that have been changed by human hands, huh? You already know that those books not original already, so why don't you try to find the original ones that were so respected by your pedhophile prophet instead:

Surah Al-Maidah : Ayat 68
Say you, 'O people of the Book! You are nothing until you establish Taurah and Injeel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord. And undoubtedly, O beloved Prophet! What has been sent down to you from your Lord, will increase many of them in wickedness and infidelity, then grieve not for the infidels.

Go ahead, find the original Taurah and Injil that were mentioned by your Jahiliyah prophet. Only friggin' idiot like you still bother with fake holly books that already corrupted by human hands.
I just saw this. Tell me retard, what do you think of Yahweh ordering the Israelites to kill everyone breathing in the Promised Land? Justice, Huh? What about burning crops/animals and even humans as offerings to Yahweh?
Who is YHWH? Is that the same fake God that was mentioned in Taurah and Injil in Surah Al-Maidah : Ayat 68 and 47?

Surah Al-Maidah : Ayat 47
And let the people of Injeel judge by what Allah has revealed in it, and whoso judges not by what Allah has sent down, then it is they who are the transgressors.

Is YHWH the same friggin' God that wrote Taurah and Injil in Surah Al-Maidah?
You claim you are not retarded, so you must be able to answer such a simple question.
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

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Go ahead, find the original Taurah and Injil that were mentioned by your Jahiliyah prophet. Only friggin' idiot like you still bother with fake holly books that already corrupted by human hands.
Listen you most excellent pig, I don't give a damn as to who your Yahweh is. As far as I'm concerned, Yahweh is another name for Satan... Now, **** off!
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by debunker »

That pretty much sums it up! (The brilliant Christian theology!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPMeMhgC3ZQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:roflmao:
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by godxilla »

debunker wrote:Listen you most excellent pig, I don't give a damn as to who your Yahweh is.
I know blackstone worshipper like you don't give a damn, but obviously your prophet does.
As far as I'm concerned, Yahweh is another name for Satan...
Is that the same SATAN who wrote Taurah and Injeel in Sura Al-Maedah? oh... muslims are sooo confused.... who wrote the Taurah and Injeel in Qur'an? Where are those Taurah and Injeel that were mentioned in Qur'an now? :wacko:
Now, **** off!
Is that all you can do? At first, you open your mouth so big just to produce vast dirty garbage. Once you are cornered just by my simple question to test your knowledge, then you immediately reveal yourself that you have no sufficient knowledge, no brain capacity to engage any logical debate. What a friggin pathetic you are. :nono:
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by debunker »

Is that all you can do? At first, you open your mouth so big just to produce vast dirty garbage. Once you are cornered just by my simple question to test your knowledge, then you immediately reveal yourself that you have no sufficient knowledge, no brain capacity to engage any logical debate. What a friggin pathetic you are.
And next time you open your most excellent mouth I'll piss in it, how about that?
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by debunker »

A conversation with Yahweh!


This video is absolutely hilarious... (but so is Christian theology) :lotpot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QecUUnLNSiY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by JihadAgainstHate »

Skenderbeg wrote: So your problem is you don't think they say 'Muslim" properly? and that made then "fake" Muslims ?
You didn’t watch the videos, did you. No one claims here what you have said. Muslims could forgive for not having proper pronunciation of the word ‘Muslim’. But how about lies and deceptions?
"Strike them with terror O LORD." (Psalms 9:19-20)
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by yeezevee »

Skenderbeg wrote
:So your problem is you don't think they say 'Muslim" properly? and that made then "fake" Muslims ?
JihadAgainstHate
You didn’t watch the videos, did you. No one claims here what you have said. Muslims could forgive for not having proper pronunciation of the word ‘Muslim’. But how about lies and deceptions?
The question here is NOT whether Skenderbeg watched the your tube clips or not .. BUT DID YOU WATCH THEM?? and if you did watch it still you take this silly video clips of Nonie Darwish and add it as "FAKE MUSLIM", then either you are brain dead Muslim or UTTERLY USELESS MUSLIM TO MUHAMMAD'S ISLAM.

let me take your 1st tube., watch it again..

Image

What is there in it?

"I was born & raised as Muzlim

Muzlim..muzlim..muz..muzlim
.. muz..muz.. muzlim..muzzliiism...

Shiat..shiat..Muzlim..Muzzzlim"

What is it a RAP music?? That video is a BLOODY insult to those who support Mr. Muhammad's Islam with their intellectual abilities..
with best
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godxilla
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Re: Devout Muslims left Islam

Post by godxilla »

debunker wrote:And next time you open your most excellent mouth I'll piss in it, how about that?
Wonder why you acted so panicky and dumbfounded by just a simple question? Hmmm... :thinking:
Oohh... silly me, I forgot that you inherited your idiocracy from your so-called Prophet:

Image
:roflmao:
A conversation with Yahweh!
Is that the same fake god that wrote Taurah and Injeel in Sura Al-Maedah?
I did leave Islam once. ... I became a Deist. ... and I came back to Islam.
You mean: you were a fulltime camelpiss drinker, then rather sane, then came back to fulltime camelpiss drinker again? No wonder...
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