sword_of_truth wrote:This is a bit like a muslim attitude, here.
He goes and attacks the people making the argument, instead of just refuting the argument. A lot of muslims will riot, but a lot of them will just do precisely what ronyvo did and get all bent out of shape and complain that he's being persecuted. That's a bad attitude. You just refute the argument if you can. I don't accept this particular argument, but it seems fairly obscure to me.
Christianity has SOME nice aspects. That doesn't mean that it is 100% innocent. The Old Testament is plainly a very nasty book, and it's not out of some Satanic desire to bring down Christianity that we criticize it. That's just our opinion. It's not a very nice book. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. I'm not going to be dishonest and say it's great. Also, Christianity is irrational and doesn't make much sense. Again, that's just my opinion. It's not some big atheist conspiracy, we just find Christianity to be distasteful and unfounded. And it's okay if Christians think that about us. At least to me. It's fine. That's your perception, we're big bad atheists. But we don't need to get into a fight over it. It's just a disagreement, no big deal. Let's not make a big fuss about it. We just agree to disagree and move on.
By the way, people like Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins are anti-Islamic. It's just that Christianity is what they know, and Christians are the ones they mostly have to deal with.
Here is an article I wrote after 9/11:
How many times, the violence in the O.T. comes up when I quote Surahs (verses) from the Koran instructing its followers to terrorize and kill the infidels (non-Muslims).
- The violence in the OT was as a result of the continuous disobedience and evil acts of God’s people. He (God) was punishing His people.
- In some cases people were acting, on their own and committing all kinds of wicked and evil acts, which God has nothing to do with.
- God tried everything to bring His people to worshiping Him alone. He sent to them many prophets. He gave them guidelines (The Ten Commandments). Still they disobeyed Him Grossly. He was extremely patient. He kept trying for thousands of years.
SO, GOD PUNISHED HIS PEOPLE WHO DISOBYED HIM AND COMMITED ALL KINDS OF SIN.
- While, Allah (Mohammad’s god, the moon god) instructs his followers to be judges and executors:
“Apostle, rouse the believers to fight.” 8:64
“Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.” 2:191 The Muslim advocates in the West are saying that this pertain to self-defense. Well, keep reading.
“Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day…and fight People of the Book (Jews and Christians), who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior.” 9:29. This is still happening today in some Islamic countries.
Here are more surahs to prove that Islam is violent and evil:
4:76,4:74,8:12-13,8:39,9:37,0:73,9:123,9:111
I guess, by now we all know about JIHAD.
Muslims called me a liar. My answer is: those surahs, are they in the Koran or not? If they are, then the Koran is a big lie and not I.
My main English source is a translation done by 2 Saudi scholars in Saudi Arabia, THE NOBLE KORAN. Since I know Arabic and English I can say that the translation is about 90% correct. For instance, some words like enkahoo, which means the “F” 4 letters word was translated to marry.
On the other hand, The New Testament, which, the Christians follow, is a refreshing teaching, full of love and peace.
The Lord Jesus Christ emphasized and demonstrated LOVE to the extent “love your enemies.” Mathew 5:43
Now, if all Christians follow Jesus’ teachings, PEACE would have spread all over the world. Which is contrary to Mohammad’s teachings. And, because Muslims are following the Koran, we are in this mess. We can see and observe the effect of it all over the world.
However, when Muslims or others try to compare the OT with the Koran as far as violence is concerned, they forget that the violent in the OT was thousands of years ago.
The violence in the Koran is followed to the present time. 2 Different eras. Islam is taking us to the barbarian era.
9/11/01 Exposed Islam to the world. Not enough, but it is a beginning.
If Muslims are ashamed of what the Koran contains, they have the choice:
Either they get out. They are here in a free country.
Or, change the Koran and eliminate the hadith, not only in the West, but also and especially, in the Islamic countries.
Since, the second choice is impossible they are left with the first. Which, millions of Muslims are doing now.
Also, some tried to argue that since the Bible contains the Old & New testaments, Christians are responsible with the violence in the OT.
There is a thematic unity. The OT leaves us with unfulfilled prophecies, unexplained ceremonies, unsatisfied longings and as unfinished destiny. The NT fulfills, explains, satisfies and finishes all of these things.
Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” Matt 5:17
And He continues; “You have heard that it was said. ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you…whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.” Matt 5:38-39
Also, “You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies.” And much more in Matthew 5, for whoever is honest and serious about finding the TRUTH.
Also, one should note the fact that Jesus did not force his teachings on His followers: “And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.” Matt 10:14
Also, “If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.” Matt 10-13
In Islam, however everything is by force. The mere relationship between man and his God is largely restricted and censored. For instance, Apostasy (leaving Islam) in Islam is punishable by death.
The sword was and is the way to spread Islam. In the West, since the sword cannot be used, all kinds of deception and cunning tactics are used and without shame. The Islamic leaders in the West are swaggers, boasters and use double standard. They depend on the ignorance of the average American of the truth about Islam.
A final note: the O. T. is the LAW (which is called Moses law). If the law was not obeyed punishment is applied.
The N.T. is the GRACE era. The division is obvious; the law era and the grace era. We are now in the grace era. Mohammad came in the grace era and wanted to take us backwards!!
“For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” John 1:17
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And they know they are being dishonest hypocritical opportunists, but they don't care. Achieve the numbers, that's all that matter, whether by hook or crook. There's no sense of honor needed in one's dealings with the kafir. That must be what they tell themselves when they stoop down as low as they do.