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role models

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:50 pm
by Nosuperstition
Hindus consider god/God Ram as a role model (maryada purushottama)

Muslims supposedly consider Muhammed as role model(uswa hasana)

According to frankie,Christians consider Jesus as their role model.Is there any reference in the Bible about Christ being the role model for all Christians?

Christ the role model completely abstained from marrying and having sex.So can this aspect of the role model be practiced by majority of his followers?

Re: role models

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:33 am
by manfred
Christ the role model completely abstained from marrying and having sex.So can this aspect of the role model be practiced by majority of his followers?


In all the denominations which have celibacy in one for or another, it is a case for SOME people who want to follow Christ in a special way. Monks and nuns always do, and in some denominations all clergy have to as well, in others, only bishops, and in in other again this is entirely voluntary.

Those who ask for celibate clergy also make it clear that this is not a doctrinal question but purely one of church law. (I.e. it could be changed.)

It is also worth noting that if you ask monks or nuns who are celibate if this makes them "better" Christians, you will uniformly get a horrified no as an answer. They will say they their life style is ONE of many ways you can follow the example of Christ, all as valid and valuable as the next.

There have been one or two sects in the early days of Christianity that demanded celibacy from all to be "perfect", and they were seen my most Christians as heretical and full of pride. They have long died out.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:31 pm
by Nosuperstition
Surely when Jesus cannot be the ipso motto for all Christians in all aspects governing their life,Muhammed cannot be the ipso motto for all Muslims in their day to day activities.That is what I was suggesting to people like frankie.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:49 pm
by manfred
Nosuperstition wrote:Surely when Jesus cannot be the ipso motto for all Christians in all aspects governing their life,Muhammed cannot be the ipso motto for all Muslims in their day to day activities.That is what I was suggesting to people like frankie.


What the hell is an ipso motto? If that is supposed to be Latin it says "A motto for himself".

"Following Christ" for a Christian means not to copy every detail of his life (which we don't even possess) it means to translate the TEACHINGS into a meaningful life today. There are many different ways to "follow Christ". Google the term "vocation" in Christianity and you get the idea.

Muslims have a completely different appoach. The DID collect and record as many details of Mohammed's life as possible and they feel they need to follow his example by copying his ACTIONS, even down to trivia. The more closely you do that the "better" a Muslim you are. Hence the henna beards, the dress code and so on. In Islam there is no concept like "vocation".

You logic is flawed again: What Christians think or do does not influence Muslims.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:21 pm
by Hombre
As far as I assume, celibacy is practiced only in Catholicism, It has nothing to do with Jesus - rather, induce Nuns & Priest to focus their energy & thought to serve God, and mankind - not their own pleasure.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:27 pm
by manfred
They have it in orthodox communities too. And you are right, a catholic will often argue that celibate clergy is more focused and also can be used more flexibly. However there is a downside too, it sometimes attracts the wrong people because of that, and it can be a very lonely thing too.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:28 am
by Nosuperstition
What Christians think or do does not influence Muslims.


However the belief in one life,One God,One Satan,everlasting Heavens and Hells do make both think alike in their zombied conditions.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:44 pm
by manfred
Nosuperstition wrote:
What Christians think or do does not influence Muslims.


However the belief in one life,One God,One Satan,everlasting Heavens and Hells do make both think alike in their zombied conditions.


This is your logic: Men have 2 legs. Chicken have 2 legs. Chicken and men must be the same thing.

Do you ever think when writing your tripe?

Re: role models

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:19 pm
by Nosuperstition
manfred wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:
What Christians think or do does not influence Muslims.


However the belief in one life,One God,One Satan,everlasting Heavens and Hells do make both think alike in their zombied conditions.


This is your logic: Men have 2 legs. Chicken have 2 legs. Chicken and men must be the same thing.

Do you ever think when writing your tripe?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwxnzYnJM4

Now there are many who asked the question when was England great?Was it when it was Christian or was it when it is secular?

The answer is implicit.Now you yourself have said that we do not consider memorising the whole of Quran as a great feat as that will result in lessening of memory space in the brain which is required for learning other subjects.So all that would be told to them are a few lines from the Bible,not the whole of Bible.And the concepts I gave are key concepts not the marginal ones.Now is that not what makes Christians like bukitdago boast about superiority of Christ over Krishna(the whole idea of supposed virgin birth itself is invented to make Christianity superior to paganism where gods had children with mortals by sex).Is that not what both idesigner1 and Wootah/rainbow said that dialectic seperation of good and evil in the form of God and Satan has resulted in better morals in monotheists than in polytheists?Now does that ring a bell when muslims boast about their superior morals when compared with others?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwxnzYnJM4

It is customary in South India to dress in somewhat revealing clothes (as can be seen in the above video) before marriage.After marriage though the red powder is applied at the junction of forehead and head hair right in the middle to show that she is already bethrothed to someone and the women generally drape themselves in sarees after marriage which cover up more of the body.

Now is not covering up even women's hair a common practice in both Islam and medieval Christianity(true Christian times) as well as in North India where muslims ruled for 700 years?Now all the pagan invaders who invaded subcontinent turned to local dressing even though in the initial stages they did try to impose their own dresses on the locals.Only Christians and Muslims adhered to their dresses.Shows that they considered themselves to be more moral than others due to the so called dialectic separation of good and evil.And that is the precise reason why they tried to make converts out of Hindus instead of converting to Hinduism.

For example people in this forum repeatedly bemoan that muslims are creating their own no go areas so that the influence of the surrounding culture can be restricted.But then the same happened in Andhra Pradesh when even Christians made a hue and cry in pre-independent India when Joshua,one of the Telugu poet tried to learn about what is written in Hindu scriptures.He had to learn about them secretly in a mosque untouched by both the religionists.

See you do not want surrounding influences to influence the thinking of your child,keep him in a fascist state and then in future riot as soon as the numbers swell.So where did Muslims get the idea of ghettoing their children so that in future they become devout muslims ready for rioting?Why did the Christians also try to do the same in India?

Re: role models

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:57 pm
by Nosuperstition
This type of religious persecution was, until then, unknown in human history. Up to that time, no one in the ancient world declared war on other people's religions, because the attitude of polytheism was "I'll worship your god, you worship mine. The more gods the merrier."

(Later we will see Greek and Roman mythologies blending with Zeus becoming Jupiter, etc. The ultimate in pluralism ― everyone's religion is as good as the next.)

In the polytheistic world no one died for their religion. No one, except the Jews.


http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48939692.html

In the old forum,people did say that the pagans had more fun and were less serious while after Christianity came into being people started becoming more serious.More the gods,more are the holidays and hence greater would be the fun.

Shorter work time is one of Sand's fascinating insights. The weekly day of rest, the Sabbath, turned the practice of Judaism into a way of legitimising free time, much to the consternation of the slave owning ruling classes of the ancient, polytheistic world.


http://mailstar.net/carthage-became-jewish.html

But then when you have a holiday for every 7 days,you too will have a great time having fun.

LCD wrote:Yes. but they also don't necessarily teach that good action is the way, they suggest it, but infact with multiple reincarnation attempts for each one simply gets infinite chances to get it right, and Christianity says you get one, so Christians are supposed to act good.


viewtopic.php?f=71&t=9384&p=148353&hilit=infinite#p148353

Unless of course if your mind is not bound by halal/haram strictures which inhibit your merry-making to an extent.So the next time around,LCD should not complain as Islam by the practice of circumcision makes people more moral /more good than in case of Christianity.Just as you brag about the superiority concepts of Christianity over those of Hindus and Buddhists,muslims too are entitled to boast about the superiority concepts of Islam over Christianity.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:43 pm
by Nosuperstition
In the 800s, Hindu intellectuals were aware of Muslim criticism of their faith. Led by a philosopher named Shankara (788-850), a few Hindu thinkers set out to defend Hinduism, especially against the Muslim charge that Hinduism was idolatrous.


http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/india02.htm

Perhaps just like LCD,learned muslims brought the charge of Hinduism being inferior due the concept of many births.May be that is the reason why in the philosophical text called 'Viveka choodamani (said to have been authored by none other the famed Sankara himself)',it is said that of all the animal births,the human birth is something quite rare and precious(jantoonaam nara janma durlabham).This later acquired phenomenal impetus as a result of which we see even Hindus being moral/madly moral as of today even though being believers of multiple reincarnations,they are not supposed to be that good in theory.

Re: role models

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:06 pm
by Nosuperstition
ISIS is said to cite Muhammad as ipso moto and marriage at 9 years old being acceptable for a muslim. Amongst Hindus,Ram is cited ipso moto and rabble rousing is done in his name citing him as more of an acceptable figure head.

Then they will be told that Ram married Sita who is 2 to 3 years elder to him and will be asked whether they are prepared to marry women older than themselves.Now this is something impossible for practical reasons.That is because women are said to attain maturity at an earlier stage than men and the more the age of the woman,the more are the chances that she will with her experience attain a final say on household matters and in verbal quarrels.So in general, Hindu men prefer only to marry those women who are 3 to 5 years lesser than themselves.

Might be I hope so that some analogy similar to this can be found with Muhammed so as to pacify muslims and deter them from marrying 9 year olds?

For example why not ask ISIS to give up kafir inventions such as guns and tanks and instead fight with swords and camels as Muhammad did?If they do not it only shows that one can always cherry pick what they want from their respective religious texts.