Page 1 of 5

I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:01 pm
by iffo
Quite disappointed with India, I thought it was a secular country. Not sure if this woman was Muslim but even of she is Hindu arresting her for a comment on her face book is pathetic. It's exactly what Saudi Arabia did. These third world countries will never become civilized .

http://dawn.com/2012/11/19/indians-arre ... -shutdown/

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:39 pm
by pr126
Third world countries?


Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:52 pm
by sum
Is it slander to present clear facts, without comment, about Muhammad?

sum

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:10 pm
by Intelligent lad
iffo wrote:Quite disappointed with India, I thought it was a secular country. Not sure if this woman was Muslim but even of she is Hindu arresting her for a comment on her face book is pathetic. It's exactly what Saudi Arabia did. These third world countries will never become civilized .

http://dawn.com/2012/11/19/indians-arre ... -shutdown/


From what I understand the girls were Muslim. So shiv Sainks attacked them for their not so reverent post on Bal Thakery. Wrong on their part and police. Shame on India. But don't worry, there will be uproar against this and the girls will be fine.

India also has a blashpemy law(used in the above case). Only that it is 'secular' blashphemy law where all religious are protected from criticism. :lol2:
It should be done away with.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:19 pm
by Idesigner
Dear Iffo,

1. One girl is muslim. Second girl was arrested just for clicking yes in support of first who spoke against forced bandh of Mubai by coward Shiv Sena marathi Ghati goons. SOME 200 ATTACKED CLINIC ALLEGEDLY BELONGING TO UNCLE OF ONE OF THESE GIRLS . Police didnt charge none of them. Marathas were well known for extortion and still live by forced collection ( khandani). Thats how Shiv Sena and Marathi lives in Mumbai. They dont like to work and anyone who makes money and work ,they go after them and extort.Bal Thakre never made any money wriuting books or doing cartoons. He became rich once money start coming from extortion. All businessmenn , Bollywood crowd used to pay bribe to him and his organnization. Thakre was quite chummy with his muslim protactor called Dawud Ibrahim now living in Pakistan.Hoefully Marathis will fight among themselves after death of Thakre Sr. Thats what they were good at it. Silver lining for people of Mumbai.

Look at all Marathi politicians , whether he is Brahmin, Maratha or CKP or Ambedkarvadi.. They all are corrupt and are parasites. No one started any industry.They all love political patronage. Anna Hazare who fights against corruption is very unpopular in Mumbai.

2.India is not really a democratic country. Only democratic about it is somewhat fair elections.

3.In India one cant discuss a book, movie or criticise people in power.Police arrest the critics on ground of hurting religious feelings of religion, minorities etc.
In west Bengal Mamata put one professor in jail fdor publishing cartoon.In south one guy is in jail for a twit against sone of a Lunghiwala , cartoon looking finace Minsiter called Chindbaram. Ajay Devghan ana actor was attacked for movie which was against some Talibani religion called Sikhism.

4.India is ranked in same category as China, Saudi Arabi, Iran and other dictaorships so far internet freedom is concerned.Here people are regularly harrassed for twiting almost anything if people in power complains.

6.Islam or no Islam India has become Dhimmiest state in the world and in no time it will succumb to Islam.

P.R. why are you changing topic here? Write something about Dhimmi Hindus and India. :mrgreen2:

Id.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:32 pm
by pr126
P.R. why are you changing topic here? Write something about Dhimmi Hindus and India. :mrgreen2:

I did not intend to change the subject, but to illustrate that virtually every non Muslim country is already a dhimmi, not just third world countries.
I cannot comment on Hindus, I know nothing about them.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:10 pm
by Idesigner
pr126 wrote:
P.R. why are you changing topic here? Write something about Dhimmi Hindus and India. :mrgreen2:

I did not intend to change the subject, but to illustrate that virtually every non Muslim country is already a dhimmi, not just third world countries.
I cannot comment on Hindus, I know nothing about them.


You are right.

East or West they all are becoming Dhimmis.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:32 pm
by skynightblaze
Idesigner wrote:Dear Iffo,
Marathas were well known for extortion and still live by forced collection ( khandani). Thats how Shiv Sena and Marathi lives in Mumbai. They dont like to work and anyone who makes money and work ,they go after them and extort.


I have stayed in Mumbai for a couple of years and visited it plenty of times and I am a marathi myself. Marathi speaking crowd do not extort money as you claim. My hometown is close to Mumbai and it is also full of marathi people and we do not go around extorting money. We do work and earn our money.

I am no fan of Shiv Sena or the tactics used by them but clubbing all marathis together under the same umbrella of political parties is simply not factually correct. Also you are specifically pointing fingers at Marathi politicians. All politicians are scoundrels and it has nothing to do with the language as such.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:52 am
by Idesigner
skynightblaze wrote:
Idesigner wrote:Dear Iffo,
Marathas were well known for extortion and still live by forced collection ( khandani). Thats how Shiv Sena and Marathi lives in Mumbai. They dont like to work and anyone who makes money and work ,they go after them and extort.


I have stayed in Mumbai for a couple of years and visited it plenty of times and I am a marathi myself. Marathi speaking crowd do not extort money as you claim. My hometown is close to Mumbai and it is also full of marathi people and we do not go around extorting money. We do work and earn our money.

I am no fan of Shiv Sena or the tactics used by them but clubbing all marathis together under the same umbrella of political parties is simply not factually correct. Also you are specifically pointing fingers at Marathi politicians. All politicians are scoundrels and it has nothing to do with the language as such.


I should have used word "Shiv Sainiks" not marathi people.

Still we cant deny the whole shivsena culture of extortion in Mumbai. Their not so distance maratha empire's MO explains what is now happening in Mumbai and Mahrastra as a whole. People who had potential to rule became lampoon, caricature loot-extortion soldiers. All marathi castes right from Brahmins and others join that pilage, rapes and out right brutality of their army of siege in Rajasthan, Gujarat, and Bengal circa 1700-1840. Many Bengali and Rajput historians have documented their loot of even Hindu temples.This continued till English put a stop by defeating them in two small wars near Pune.. Once marathi dynasties joined English system of governance they all became cultured , brutality stopped and we had marathi renaissance of post 1857 . Unfortunately whole Maharstra again went back to dark ages once greedy maratha politicians learnt how to extort money from rich as well as their own poors. Pawar, Gadkari, Naiks, Chauhans Thakres and all joine the system.Rank and file poors of Maharstra paid heavy price, although the state is rich. Now our hope is pinned on one reformer Anna.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:48 pm
by Nosuperstition
Intelligent lad wrote:India also has a blashpemy law(used in the above case). Only that it is 'secular' blashphemy law where all religious are protected from criticism. :lol2:
It should be done away with.


Well when I was eagerly searching the internet for info about different religions,I came across a site where the Hindus and Muslims were throwing insults on each other's holy figures to the full.In response to Muhammad being called x,y and z, a muslim poster hurled all the defaming things about Hindu gods supposedly present in Hindu puranas.I cannot recollect all of them right now but back then those things went round and round in my mind and I lost faith gradually.

One such allegation supposedly present in the Puranas is that god Vishnu was sleeping with beautiful women in Hell and god Shiva got angry about it and chastised him by dragging him out of Hell.A thing that was painful for a Vishnu devotee such as myself.Now I assume that Shaivist supremacists back then manufactured such stories in order to show the supremacism of their god.

Another allegation was that Hindu god Shiva realised that a demoness wanted to act like his lover and kill him and so Shiva sent the tridents into the vagina of the demoness through his penis.

So if it were not for the protecting blasphemy laws no religion in India would survive.

Anyway before World War II , many of the countries of even the industrialised world,the so called First world had one or other forms of Christianity as state religion.So why should not more or less same thing be allowed for India before it too industrialises to the full and beyond for much more sufficient period.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:23 pm
by Yohan
iffo wrote:Quite disappointed with India, I thought it was a secular country. Not sure if this woman was Muslim but even of she is Hindu arresting her for a comment on her face book is pathetic. It's exactly what Saudi Arabia did. These third world countries will never become civilized .

http://dawn.com/2012/11/19/indians-arre ... -shutdown/

It has become fashionable in India to arrest and drag people to court for exercizing their right to 'freedom of expression', whether it is by speech, writing, or actions. Only USA has full 'freedom of expression' rights. In all other countries it is very subjective. There in lies the problem.

Also keep in mind that though India has freedom of religion, people are excessively religious and tend to be chavinistic on religious and communal matters. This even extends to the south asian communites in the West. These people seem to be permanently celebrating one or another religious function whether, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim or Christian during every weekend, so much so that it has become a disease.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:30 pm
by pr126
Yohan wrote:
Only USA has full 'freedom of expression' rights.

For now. This may change.

Obama: “The Future Must Not Belong to Those Who Slander the Prophet of Islam”

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:42 pm
by Nosuperstition
Idesigner wrote:Still we cant deny the whole shivsena culture of extortion in Mumbai. Their not so distance maratha empire's MO explains what is now happening in Mumbai and Mahrastra as a whole. People who had potential to rule became lampoon, caricature loot-extortion soldiers. All marathi castes right from Brahmins and others join that pilage, rapes and out right brutality of their army of siege in Rajasthan, Gujarat, and Bengal circa 1700-1840. Many Bengali and Rajput historians have documented their loot of even Hindu temples.This continued till English put a stop by defeating them in two small wars near Pune.. Once marathi dynasties joined English system of governance they all became cultured , brutality stopped and we had marathi renaissance of post 1857 . Unfortunately whole Maharstra again went back to dark ages once greedy maratha politicians learnt how to extort money from rich as well as their own poors. Pawar, Gadkari, Naiks, Chauhans Thakres and all joine the system.Rank and file poors of Maharstra paid heavy price, although the state is rich. Now our hope is pinned on one reformer Anna.


Well according to patriot of the Old Forum,once muslim rulers successfully dismembered the Hindu Vijaya Nagar Empire around 1600 A.D, they attacked each other's kingdoms ferociously for loot.Maharashtra is said to have borne the brunt of such North South Muslim sultanates' warfare.As a result people there are said to have become battle hardened due to constant ravages of loot on their soil.

It is worth remembering that muslims firmly established themselves in fertile alluvial plains of Bengal and Ganges and then continuously knocked the doors of other Hindu kingdoms such as those of Rajputs.One should not forget that Muslim rulers of Delhi cleverly married Hindu princesses and employed Rajputs liberally in their armies.Rajputs too complied so that they can get monetary benefits to their arid regions from fertile Gangetic plains occupied by Muslim sultans.Rajput generals were sent to suppress rebellions in regions as far as Afghanistan.If I remember correctly Aurangzeb first sent a contigent of army under a Rajput general to crush Shivaji the Maratha hero.It was a clever policy of pitting Hindus against Hindus.This does not excuse the behaviour of Marathas in any way but then the war ravaged Marathas might have felt that there is nothing wrong in getting a bit even.

However the Marathas whom you so despise have completely surrounded Delhi but they did not want to reduce the beautiful city to ashes hence they left it.The British on the other hand after the 1857 revolt destroyed the beauty of much of the city.They were similiar to what Nadir Shah , the ruler of Iran did to Delhi.

Yohan said that the British were justified in taking oppressive measures in Bengal so as to generate enough revenues to build Empire elsewhere in India,so might be Marathas were also justified in looting a lot in order to build a strong sub-continent wide Empire.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:50 pm
by Nosuperstition
After the third battle of Panipat , the Marathas were defeated by Ahmed Shah Abdali , the Afghan ruler.He granted to those men who lost their dear relatives in the war with Marathas , the right to rape defenceless Maratha women.After the rapes, many Maratha women are said to have jumped into wells and committed suicide.

So even the Marathas were at the receiving end of rapacious warfares.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:59 pm
by Nosuperstition
Only that it is 'secular' blashphemy law where all religious are protected from criticism. :lol2:
It should be done away with.


Even after 350 years of beginning of Renaissance,European elite stuck to official line of Christianity being official religion or state religion.India is sticking to the essence of its majority religion Hinduism which says that one can attain God in different paths.I see nothing wrong in continuing the same policy for some more time.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:04 pm
by Yohan
skynightblaze wrote:I have stayed in Mumbai for a couple of years and visited it plenty of times and I am a marathi myself. Marathi speaking crowd do not extort money as you claim. My hometown is close to Mumbai and it is also full of marathi people and we do not go around extorting money. We do work and earn our money.

I am no fan of Shiv Sena or the tactics used by them but ----

Extortion is something that is practised by everyone in India who can get away with it. It is called corruption.India is having a much harder time to progress compared to other countries because of this. Shiva sena extortion just adds to this misery.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:25 pm
by Intelligent lad
Nosuperstition wrote:
Only that it is 'secular' blashphemy law where all religious are protected from criticism. :lol2:
It should be done away with.


Even after 350 years of beginning of Renaissance,European elite stuck to official line of Christianity being official religion or state religion.India is sticking to the essence of its majority religion Hinduism which says that one can attain God in different paths.I see nothing wrong in continuing the same policy for some more time.


Blasphemy laws hurts Hinduism. Muslims/Christians/Communist will write and say all the bad things about Hinduism no matter what. Hindus are stopped from criticising other religions by the blasphemy law. In a free exchange of ideas (like internet) Hindus will have an upper hand. Remember ‘Internet Hindus’. All blasphemy laws has to go. We need First Amendment in India.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:12 pm
by Idesigner
Nosuperstition wrote:
Intelligent lad wrote:India also has a blashpemy law(used in the above case). Only that it is 'secular' blashphemy law where all religious are protected from criticism. :lol2:
It should be done away with.


Well when I was eagerly searching the internet for info about different religions,I came across a site where the Hindus and Muslims were throwing insults on each other's holy figures to the full.In response to Muhammad being called x,y and z, a muslim poster hurled all the defaming things about Hindu gods supposedly present in Hindu puranas.I cannot recollect all of them right now but back then those things went round and round in my mind and I lost faith gradually.

One such allegation supposedly present in the Puranas is that god Vishnu was sleeping with beautiful women in Hell and god Shiva got angry about it and chastised him by dragging him out of Hell.A thing that was painful for a Vishnu devotee such as myself.Now I assume that Shaivist supremacists back then manufactured such stories in order to show the supremacism of their god.

Another allegation was that Hindu god Shiva realised that a demoness wanted to act like his lover and kill him and so Shiva sent the tridents into the vagina of the demoness through his penis.

So if it were not for the protecting blasphemy laws no religion in India would survive.

Anyway before World War II , many of the countries of even the industrialised world,the so called First world had one or other forms of Christianity as state religion.So why should not more or less same thing be allowed for India before it too industrialises to the full and beyond for much more sufficient period.


India doesnt have same kind of blasphemy laws as Pakistan has.Pakistan later amended the original british law to use against anyone who criticise Islam and Prophet.

India use archaic british IPC law where government has power to put anyone in jail if any speech hurts religious feelings of other people. This law was used by Mamata, Shivsena , Chindi Lughiwala's son, some cop in Chandigadh and others to persecute their critics.. Later victims are released with some fine and innocents often spend lots of time in jail.One cant compare even this arbitrary law with blasphemy laws of Pakistan.

Before this law in India, Muslims( Ahmadiya founder Mirza) and mostly Aryasamajis used to debate and insult each others gods in open. It resulted in few riots and killings as if its something new about continent. :lol2: Brits wanted to control masses and made this draconian law.

Hinduism will survive and do well if blasphemy law is removed. Hinduism survived destruction of its worshipping places , forced conversions and outright suppressions and nude depiction by that Muslim painter. I doubt if Islam can survive in absence of state sponsored blasphemy laws.

Nosuperstition all those stories you mantioned in Purans cant be authenticated by Shiv Purana or Vishnu Puran. Both Purans put their own diety at top and other as devotee, but it stops there.Later some people will add all kind of porno material to entertain themselves or demean others, or sometime out right forgery like Bhavisya Purana. I have read Brahma Purana and Bhagvat in detail. Cant find anything insulting about Shiva.Ofcourse Avtaras of Vishnu were shown worshipped by Shiva. Only stupid people will take any Puran stories seriously. One can be Hindu without believing in any puranic mumbo jumbo.Purans were written by some selfish brahmin priests for their own self interest to give permanent begging rights to their descendents.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:25 pm
by Idesigner
However the Marathas whom you so despise have completely surrounded Delhi but they did not want to reduce the beautiful city to ashes hence they left it.The British on the other hand after the 1857 revolt destroyed the beauty of much of the city.They were similiar to what Nadir Shah , the ruler of Iran did to Delhi


I understand your point. Maratha empire was born during pretty brutal time whre lootibg, rape and plunder, anarchy was the norm.

Maratha once ruled half of India. They could have turned out to be benovelent empire with a powerful monarchy . They coulld have chnaged course of history, but their short sightedness ruined everything. Here again Marathi Brahmins screwed everyone.rember all trecherous Peshwas, killing each other, poisoning each other and kidnapping each other. Our Thackrays and many Marathi of Mumbai like to do that but too bad its modern India. :mrgreen2: They can face same bitter medicine from other people, whether its congress in power or BJP.

In Delhi Maratha tried gherao which was the only strategy they knew. Before any loot starts they have to fight war with Abdali. They were defeated because of flawed military strategy. We dont know what they would have done if they had won the war. I guess loot, rape, plunder and back to Pune with lots of gold. Here they lost even their loin cloth and Padhadi. Later Sindhyas and others wont rule with any sense of justce and refoms, till English made them satrapas.Now all reforms started by those slave Maharajas.

Re: I thought only Muslim countries were crazy?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:38 pm
by Yohan
Nosuperstition wrote:After the third battle of Panipat , the Marathas were defeated by Ahmed Shah Abdali , the Afghan ruler.He granted permission to those men who lost their dear relatives in the war with Marathas , the right to rape defenceless Maratha women.After the rapes, many Maratha women are said to have jumped into wells and committed suicide.

So even the Marathas were at the receiving end of rapacious warfares.

In medieval warfare, if pre-war negotiations failed and an ultimatum to surrender was not honored, the victor got the right to a few days (usually 3- 5) of rape and plunder after the war. That was the practice all over the world. Soldiers got paid only a pittance and they looked forward to bonus rewards after a hard fought and won war in the form of loot, captured women and slaves. If they didn't receive such rewards they could revolt, and kill their leaders. Ordinary folks fled to far off places before the war started, but those unlucky enough to be stuck in the surrounded cities awaited their fate. After the plunder, order was established with the new ruler in charge. Ordinary people then slowly returned.

The situation with Hindu Marathas was different. They couldn't establish a stable kingdom/empire, when they were able to, especially when the Muslim power waned in India. In stead, they turned into mauraders and plunderers with a wide reach across the subcontinent and created permanent havoc. That was also the reason why they lost to Afghans. Proper order was established only when the British conquered the Marathas.

One can understand why Hindus take pride in the achievements of the Marathas in challenging the Muslims. That's because they have no other rulers to take such pride with (Rajputs were in Kahoots with the Muslim rulers). But that doesn't erase the fact that Hindu Marathas failed to live upto the standards people expected as they degenerated into robbers. All that takes one to this Thackeray guy who took much pride in his Maratha ancestors. Was he any different from his lawless ancestors? Weren't he and his army of thugs modern day versions of the maurading Marathas of yesterday?