Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Debate how Islam compares to other faiths and religions.
glitch
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by glitch »

idesigner1 wrote:Advent of Christianity didn't change condition of slaves . Bible OT or NT was not slave emancipation document.Slavery in Christianity almost continued till 17 and 18 century.

Same way conversion to Islam didn't uplift low castes from stigma attached to them. In India Muslim society has almost parallel castes.They intermarry within their own group. Untouchable castes were not absorbed by Islam . They stayed untouchable even after conversion. Only touch taboos became tolerable. Islam absorbed some artisan castes as they were useful in building new Islamic Sultanate.
1. Christianity wasn't in charge of the world. Paul made a distinctive statement on christianity, and if you're gonna judge anything, compare how slavery or Bonded indemniture was treated under judiasm as opposed to any other place, and under Islam--thanks for playing i'm the stupid muslim game.
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manfred
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by manfred »

There is something I don't get when this topic comes up... one one hand we are told to keep religion out of politics, but one the other hand religion is blamed for politics ...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

The granary of South India is being turned into a concrete jungle with toxic industrial waste by the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh,honorable Mr.Chandra Babu by constructing a capital city in the Krishna delta.All because the people of his caste who consistently vote for him are going to benefit a lot as they are concentrated a lot in the chosen location.And you still expect people of other regions of South India to remain loyal to Hinduism without converting out of it in order to escape starvation.Go figure out and continue with your caste partisanship.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

I read nowadays about the so called 'all India Permit'.But then what can those who are educated in vernacular mediums do with this so called permit.Deliberately English medium schools were denied to a vast majority of the lower class whose mental development is already stunted due to lack of proper diet.So no English literally means those that are educated in the Telugu medium cannot find jobs outside of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana and even Telangana with its job rich Hyderabad city(due to funding from all Telugu regions) was turned into a no go area as part of nefarious designs of both the Congress and the B.J.P.Worth noting that the paternal society of the B.J.P has supported North Indians getting jobs in Mumbai predominantly inhabited by the Marathis but the same facility was not extended to the Telugu people perhaps because their 'patriotism' is questionable just like that of muslims.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
glitch
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by glitch »

manfred wrote:There is something I don't get when this topic comes up... one one hand we are told to keep religion out of politics, but one the other hand religion is blamed for politics ...
Preach it brother.

Chick-Fil-a is a private business, which hires hundreds of people and gives them a fairly good after school job and many people do well there. The president who is a christian, makes a personal statement, saying "I think marriage should be between a man and a woman." as a personal opinion, has his business attacked--has his people attacked--th liberal media wanted Chick fila to be destroyed... (Didnt happen though).

I barely ever raise the issue of religion over isreal, but Isreal is a democracy in the middle east, with arabs in the Kinesset and no gays being killed in the streets, and libtards still dare to call it Apartheid.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

From what I have learned recently,one thing with Hindus it seems is that their lower castes were granted much benefits in the form of quota after 1947 following the pattern set by the Brits.Hence in any future confrontation with others,those of the lower caste people that benefitted a lot must stand by those who gave them such opportunities while those that did not are free.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons.
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I was educated in state syllabi not the federal one of India.May be it was in my 6th standard history matter of social studies text was it mentioned that there were many invaders to India,however many assimilated at the borders itself into the Indic religions, however muslims did not.They also did mention about the various discriminatory taxes and things which the Hindus had to undergo under Islamic rule such as a ban on riding horses, eating betel leaves and paying ziziya.However they did also mention that Islam's egalitarian message as opposed to Hinduism's message of inequality attracted many Hindus from the lower castes.

Samething was mentioned on FFI with regards to conquest of subcontinent by both Muslims and the British.

However from what I can see from the above quote even all people are not equal in the eyes of Allah.May be they are equal by birth as there is no concept of reincarnation,however Allah does seem to differentiate people based on their works or karma. Perhaps it is for this reason that both Muslims as well as the Brits did not disturb the Hindu feudal set up much in the subcontinent during their respective rules.

Feudal mindset is all about upholding hereditary privileges by any means.

However ohmyrus of the old forum in one of his two threads ‘Death by secularism-Spengler’ or ‘Bring back that old time religion’ said that in monotheism,God/Allah demands absolute obedience from his followers while in polytheist religions of Greece one who is not granted a boon or who is not granted a favour by Zeus can turn to Hera,his wife and vice versa.That is something I also witnessed in Hinduism when in a song,the female voice asks the wife of the deity to hearken to her pleas when it supposedly falls deaf on the ears of the male deity.That they said will not lead to the same level of morals as the monotheists have.Radagast also referred to this phenomenon as immoral ‘deity shopping’.
So essentially when a slave is told in the N.T to serve his master with even more servility even if treated quite badly,he cannot pray to any other deity and therefore he has to obey.God is like a slave master who beats slaves with stripes according to one more attribute of the most Compassionate God.So egalitarianism of Abrahamic religions is a matter of perspective.

So being both slaves as well as serfs in pre-Industrial era in Abrahamic societies also doesn’t seem to be fare that better either.
The exponents of the “law” of Islam lived amidst leisure and luxury in towns protected by Islamic armies. They could very well afford to blow any amount of hot air about the “beauties” of their “religion”.
http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/siii/ch10.htm

Perhaps making half zombies full zombies with strict obedience to authority in the name of the most powerful supernatural being is one of the beauties of the Islamic faith being contemplated by those scholars and theologians.Now when Muhammad said that he will plead for forgiveness to believing muslims in the presence of Allah on the day of judgement,Muslims too can become lenient/disobedient.

Some scholars opine that Christianity is not pure monotheism as the presence of worship of Virgin Mary,Holy Trinity,various Saints make it look more so like polytheism.
So deity shopping can also happen within Christianity however Christ seems to be the a figure that must to be worshipped.Similarly worship of Sufi tombs also renders Islam somewhat accepting of deity worshipping.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

India is a land of many castes some say numbering as many as 3000.Some castes could have been formed when the existing local tribes were divided based on occupation.Some others might have been formed when tribal groups which were brought within the fold of Hinduism wished to maintain their own pre-Hindu tribal identity.Some could have been the result of more weaponised Hindus defeating and subjugating the local tribals as is evidenced in case of Karna Solanki defeating Hindu tribal leader Asha Bhil and renaming Ashapalli established by him as Karnavati. Palli in Sanskrit is the name of a tribal hamlet. Karnavati was later renamed Ahmedabad when Muslims captured it.It is now the capital of the state of Gujarat in India.

However when Muslims defeated Hindu kings with the help of their superior breed of horses,Hindu kings who had until then left the tribals to reign in their own kingdoms went to occupy those kingdoms.Displacement invasions.For example the town of Kota in Rajasthan was established by a Hindu ruler who was defeated by Muslims and had to re-locate himself by defeating and slaying the local tribal ruler Kotaiah of Kota. Similarly ,when the Kakatiyas of Warangal of Telugu lands were defeated by Turkish rulers of Delhi,Kakatiyas relocated themselves to the tribal areas of Chattisgarh disregarding the principle of live and let live.

So in a way ,in an indirect fashion , foreign invasions also proved lethal to the native tribes and resulted in further stratifications.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

The same thing happened even in Middle East and in North Africa when those areas had polytheistic religions.For example when the cities of the semitic Phoenicians were captured by their fellow semites,the Assyrians,the Phoenicians under the leadership of Luli,princess of Tyre and Sidon on the West Bank went to on an exodus and found the city of Carthage on North Africa that rose to great heights in antiquity before being leveled down by Rome.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

Palli or Halli appears at the end of many villages across South India.Shows that many of them were indeed tribal in their origins.If the South had also been subjugated for long by muslims,its identity too would have been changed with regards to names of villages and towns just as had been evidenced in names such as Adilabad,Mahaboobnagar(originally called Palamura in Telugu),Nizamabad etc of the state of Telangana which was under Muslim rule for a considerable period.

Also vowels would have been less frequently used that what is the norm in languages derived from Sanskrit.For example,word dukaaNam in Sanskritised Telugu meaning a shop is pronounced as duknam in Telugu of Telangana dialect possibly because they were under Muslim rule for considerable period of time.The same phenomenon can also be observed in the way words are pronouned in North India with vowels being considerably omitted.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

During the period of the Imperial Mauryas of North India of 200 B.C,tribal hamlets were called Palle /Palli in Prakrit/Sanskrit.Many villages of South India still have the same surname of Palli/Palle behind village names.

Asha Palli of Gujarat named after Hinduised tribal leader Asha Bhil was later renamed Karnavati after its conquest by Rajput chieftain Karna Solanki and was later renamed Ahmedabad when Muslims captured it.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Games Muslims play: Islam freed lower caste Hindus

Post by Nosuperstition »

My observation of Sanskrit having more vowels than Hindi or Hindustani or Urdu also stems from the fact that I frequently used to listen to Sanskrit news on all India Radio and was able to fairly grasp its meaning.Most of the pronounciation in that news had a lot many vowels which are cut short in both Hindi and Urdu.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
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