Islam,and christianity

[IsraelandIsmael]

I want to discuss On Islams relationship with Christianity and Judaism. I am inviting every one who is intrested in faith freedom internationlal to take part. i will be coming with my first article soon.

[Marie]

Welcome.

Hope to see your post soon.

[paxi christi]

there is no Comparison between Jesus and Muhammad............

[Ghaith]

[paxi christi]

yos

read it and weep.......

like i said the bible is written properly..the translation of tomothy 2:11.

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.”–Paul, 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Paul’s letters are already difficult to interpret because they are like listening to one side of a telephone conversation, but faulty translations only further complicate our understanding of his words. There are a few key words that are conveniently mistranslated in 1 Timothy 2: 11-15.
Hesuchios/Hesuchia: Traditionalists normally translate this word as “silence” (at least in passages concerning women), but the word in all other places is translated as “peacefulness” “Peaceable” or “quietness.” The word does not carry the meaning of literal silence or absence of speech, but of an atmosphere or presence in which learning should take place. Strong’s Greek Dictionary defines hesuchios/hesuchias as “properly, keeping one’s seat,” “stillness” “undisturbed,” “undisturbing,” and “peaceable.”
When Paul has absence of speech in mind, he uses the term “sigao.” The same word is used just nine verses earlier and is translated as “peaceable,” 1 Timothy 2:1-2. Hesuchios/hesuchia is translated as quiet/quietness in 1 Thess. 4:11, 2 Thess. 3:12, 1 Peter 3:4. None of these verses are about silence, as in the literal absence of speech, but a tranquil quietness or peaceable presence/environment. This fits the context much better than a literal silence, since Paul just rebuked the men in the congregation for praying while angry and quarreling. Obviously, this would NOT be the optimum environment for anyone to learn in. Thus, Paul tells Timothy to make sure the woman can learn in quietness or peacefulness, and not amid the chaos that was taking over church meetings.
Paul also instructs that women should learn in full submission. This is not a unique request asked only of women, but men are also suppose to learn in full submission to the gospel and sound teaching. The reason this command is directed toward women here is only because teaching women in the same way as men was still a revolutionary practice and still repulsive to many men, believers or not.
Now, onto the grand-daddy of mistranslations and controversy….
“…nor to have authority over [authentein] a man…”
Exousia is the normal word used for “authority,” a carrying out of one’s official duties. But this is not the word Paul uses here. He instead picks the word authentein and it is the ONLY time this word appears in the New Testament. Exousia, however, appears over 100 times. Other uses of authentein from the same time period show that this word does not simply mean legitimate or routine authority, but carries violent, sexual, and dominating meanings.
Authentein.It cannot be stressed enough how unusual this word is, especially for Paul. Paul writes about authority quite a bit and he never uses authentein as a synonym for legitimate, godly authority. For most mentions of authority, he uses exousia. Louw and Nida’s Lexicon lists 12 common ancient Greek words that are synonyms for routine or legitimate authority, exousia being the most common throughout the new testament. There are 47 words that are synonyms for legitimate “rule” or “governing.” Yet Paul uses none of these words in 1 Timothy 2:11, he chooses the unusual authentein. We do not find any evidence that authentein, in any of its forms, connotates a routine or legitimate authority until the late third to fourth centuries, far too removed from Paul’s era to provide relevant meanings and contexts. And even once the word took on a less severe meaning in later centuries, THIS passage was ALWAYS been understood as Paul forbidding women to dominate a man, not simply exercise legitimate Christ-like authority. Consider these early translations: Old Latin Version from the second – fourth century translates this verse as “I permit not a woman to teach, neither to dominate a man {neque dominari in viro}.

The Vulgate, from the second to fourth century, translates this verse as “I permit not a woman to teach, neither to domineer over a man {neque dominari in virum}.

“There is a basically unbroken tradition, stemming from the oldest version and running down to the twenty first century, that translates authentein as “to dominate” and not “to exercise authority over.”-Linda Belleville
It is not until the 1500s that the verb authentein used in this verse changes from the drastically negatively-charged “to dominate/domineer” to a slightly water-downed phrase, “to usurp authority” (thanks, King James). Still different from exercising legitimate authority, but much less forceful than the violent and even sexual connotations of the original authentein. The King James version asserts that women are not to wrestle authority or seize it from men. No believer is permitted to usurp authority or act in self-interest over others. It is not until after World War II that authentein really gets the botched-translated: “to exercise/assume authority over.” That’s right, less than 80 years ago! So, the notion that women may never exercise godly authority within the body based on this verse is completely unbiblical, both logically and historically.


source........ http://christianfeminism.wordpress.com/ ... hy-211-12/

[Ghaith]

mistranslated in 1 Timothy 2: 11-15.

White washing Christianity wont work, its to dirty Paxi.

Taking the English Revised Version it says


Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:
but she shall be saved through the childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 no out of context no nothing.

Im reading and laughing at Christianity

I guess females are just objects that can only be saved through childbearing

1 Timothy 2:10 fixes the context you are trying to white wash
For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do.


Womens limitations 1 Timothy 2:9
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,

Nice try to Paxi.

[paxi christi]

yos

stop your mouth,keep it shut and think.
you cant help but talk before you think.this will be the end of you.believe me.

now to keep it short and sweet.and very very simple..

the text i gave you fits in with the life style of the western world.just look at the professions of women.in the church and schools ,hospitals,,they have equality.so my post previous was right eh?
. ive told you think before you speak..they call those people bigmouths,or gob sh1tes where im from .

now lets look at your way of life witth women..

in britain alone 90% of women dont work,they have to stay at home.they are made to wear burka or habibs,niquab(spellings) etc.they have to share there husband with many other wives.which in fact it should be illegal.but the dhimmies are sh!t scared to do some thing about it.

they cannot have a relationship/marraige with any person who is not muslim/islamic.without haveing the other person converting.

the list is endless yos.
your a gob sh1te.you run your mouth behind computers like the muslims run there mouth behind PC...lololol.

you have a chance to get away from it all thogh..kick that muppet with a puppet in touch..and take stock of your life and take it from there...

you can save yourself you know without the aid of the pedophilia of a sand pirate and his jinn you know...grow some balls.

[pr126]

Yos loves a tu quoque. What else does he have?

What he is really saying is "Look at your Bible, it is just as bad as the Quran!"
Of course it is, most of it was plagiarized from the Bible. Very badly.
Everybody knows that. Except Muslims.

[Ghaith]

yos

stop your mouth,keep it shut and think.
you cant help but talk before you think.this will be the end of you.believe me.

now to keep it short and sweet.and very very simple..

the text i gave you fits in with the life style of the western world.just look at the professions of women.in the church and schools ,hospitals,,they have equality.so my post previous was right eh?
. ive told you think before you speak..they call those people bigmouths,or gob sh1tes where im from .

now lets look at your way of life witth women..

in britain alone 90% of women dont work,they have to stay at home.they are made to wear burka or habibs,niquab(spellings) etc.they have to share there husband with many other wives.which in fact it should be illegal.but the dhimmies are sh!t scared to do some thing about it.

they cannot have a relationship/marraige with any person who is not muslim/islamic.without haveing the other person converting.

the list is endless yos.
your a gob sh1te.you run your mouth behind computers like the muslims run there mouth behind PC...lololol.

you have a chance to get away from it all thogh..kick that muppet with a puppet in touch..and take stock of your life and take it from there...

you can save yourself you know without the aid of the pedophilia of a sand pirate and his jinn you know...grow some balls.

This is typical Christianty, your excuse about the mistranslation didnt work now you restore to insults. Woman are less worth in Christianty than they are in Islam so dont bother bringing that Issue up. You do what all Christians do give sourceless statstics. I expect nothing more from a trinty worshipping catholic. You are as garbage as your new NT.

[Ghaith]

Yos loves a tu quoque. What else does he have?

What he is really saying is "Look at your Bible, it is just as bad as the Quran!"
Of course it is, most of it was plagiarized from the Bible. Very badly.
Everybody knows that. Except Muslims.

Tu quoque? Read the topic Next time read the topic before embarrasing your self.

[paxi christi]

yos

This is typical Christianty, your excuse about the mistranslation didnt work now you restore to insults.

what does this mean,lololol?

i spelt it out for you. you didnt like it? well tough.

its in the book of hate and fear called the koran... i think you need to see a doctor.. you are being led by a psychopath with a split personality..

the other half of him tells him to do such evil things to people who do not worship him..but really he has you worshiping his self not the other half.lolololol.

now lets look at sharia shall we.

then we will know how you treat women and other people.

after all thats your laws..

ive shown you equality in the western world laws..

lets look at islamic law sharia..

show me equality to women ,first .

then we will move on..

this is good,because it shows actions working to tell the truth with words.

but i think you wont struggle,will you yos???

[Ghaith]

Paxi, you copy/pasted an entire article without checking out if the content given is true or not

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.”–Paul, 1 Timothy 2:11-12
That is crystal clear. Not taken out of context or anything. Women have no right. In your article.

Paul’s letters are already difficult to interpret because they are like listening to one side of a telephone conversation,

That not a valid excuse, why are the included in the bible if like "listening" to one side of a conversation. They are christian laws.

Going further.

Hesuchios/Hesuchia: Traditionalists normally translate this word as “silence” (at least in passages concerning women), but the word in all other places is translated as “peacefulness” “Peaceable” or “quietness.” The word does not carry the meaning of literal silence or absence of speech, but of an atmosphere or presence in which learning should take place. Strong’s Greek Dictionary defines hesuchios/hesuchias as “properly, keeping one’s seat,” “stillness” “undisturbed,” “undisturbing,” and “peaceable.”

Id like to se why this "strong's greek dictionary" is more authentic than the standar ones. According to New Testament Greek Lexicon hsucioß(Hesuchio) means quiet, tranquil

The same word is also used in 1 Peter 3:4
Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

Exousia is the normal word used for “authority,” a carrying out of one’s official duties. But this is not the word Paul uses here. He instead picks the word authentein and it is the ONLY time this word appears in the New Testament. Exousia, however, appears over 100 times. Other uses of authentein from the same time period show that this word does not simply mean legitimate or routine authority, but carries violent, sexual, and dominating meanings.
Authentein.It cannot be stressed enough how unusual this word is, especially for Paul. Paul writes about authority quite a bit and he never uses authentein as a synonym for legitimate, godly authority. For most mentions of authority, he uses exousia. Louw and Nida’s Lexicon lists 12 common ancient Greek words that are synonyms for routine or legitimate authority, exousia being the most common throughout the new testament.

What Paul choose and choose not to use in his letter is not a valid excuse.

“There is a basically unbroken tradition, stemming from the oldest version and running down to the twenty first century, that translates authentein as “to dominate” and not “to exercise authority over.”-Linda Belleville
It is not until the 1500s that the verb authentein used in this verse changes from the drastically negatively-charged “to dominate/domineer” to a slightly water-downed phrase, “to usurp authority” (thanks, King James). Still different from exercising legitimate authority, but much less forceful than the violent and even sexual connotations of the original authentein. The King James version asserts that women are not to wrestle authority or seize it from men. No believer is permitted to usurp authority or act in self-interest over others. It is not until after World War II that authentein really gets the botched-translated: “to exercise/assume authority over.” That’s right, less than 80 years ago! So, the notion that women may never exercise godly authority within the body based on this verse is completely unbiblical, both logically and historically.

That doesnt really help..... If he tried to white wash the authority part we are left with the part that a woman cannot teach. wtill we have new bible that still gives the clear meaning

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

If we are to take the white washed version

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

We still have a point that a woman should not teach

Ofcourse 1 Timothy 2:9 also shows the sexist side of the bible.

[Ghaith]

western world laws.

.
Western world laws are not Christian laws.....

[Ghaith]

Deuteronomy 23:2
No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.

Just because someone is born outside of marriage not even his own fault he can’t enter the assembly of God. Compare this with the Quran that says…

If any do deeds of righteousness, be they male or female, and have faith they will enter heaven and not the least injustice will be done to them. Surah 4:124

[paxi christi]

yos

lololol..

you ar latiing things slip evry time you open your mouth..

youv just told me............

The same word is also used in 1 Peter 3:4
Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

is that the one like this one.............



then, the spirit squeezed Mohammed very tightly, that he thought that he was going to die. And the spirit said to Mohammed, "Read." Mohammed was illiterate, he could not read. And he said, "I cannot read." Then the spirit squeezed him more tightly that he thought he was going to die. And the spirit said to him, "Read!" "I cannot read," Mohammed answered. Then the spirit squeezed him more tightly. He was afraid that he was going to die. And he said, "Read!" He said, "What shall I read?"


then you say this.........

Western world laws are not Christian laws.....

you are right they are made up Christian,juediasm,humanism...........note no islamic/sharia..........

that is why equality comes into it...

now.

we can see how laws are built of these teachings ..they are put into law in the western worlds..........

lets talk about islaic/sharia law from the moslem countries .

that is made up of islam.

do the teachings of islam come shining through on the countrieswho have these laws ? of course it does..

what is the difference between them do you think ?

[Ghaith]

you are right they are made up Christian,juediasm,humanism...........note no islamic/sharia..........

Where did you get that Idea from???!!

Source please??

Poor Paxi Read your unholy bible before debating Christianity.

Leviticus 20:13 "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Same-sex marriage in the United States is not recognized by the federal government, but such marriages are recognized by some individual states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

There is no law for adultery in the western world how ever.

Leviticus 20:10
"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

There are no laws for blasphemy

Leviticus 24:16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.


Now show me the source for you claim.

[paxi christi]

yos

Leviticus 20:10
"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

you and all the moslems in the western world would be put to death for blasphemy if that was western law,you fool.you dont believe in old testament or the new.jesus not son of god,crucifiction, resurrection..you are not put to death,why do you think that is? because its not islam/sharia..you have just pointed some verse from your bag of knowledge and you cannot put it in line with,the laws of the west.why is that yos? you dumb or some thing..running your big mouth again..

ill tell you why,you are nothing but a troll.getting a buzz out of trying to taking the piss.lol.

your mouth is at it again..is your head empty by any chance,you dont seem to understand any thing at all.

lets talk about what ive said but put it in a say moslem country.what would happen to me for doing blasphemy??

can you see the difference comming to light in every post we make yet???

of course you can,better still so can joe public reading this aswell.

lets talk about sharia yos. on equality to every one non muslims and women alike,eh??

[Ghaith]

yos

Leviticus 20:10
"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

you and all the moslems in the western world would be put to death for blasphemy if that was western law,you fool.you dont believe in old testament or the new.jesus not son of god,crucifiction, resurrection..you are not put to death,why do you think that is? because its not islam/sharia..you have just pointed some verse from your bag of knowledge and you cannot put it in line with,the laws of the west.why is that yos? you dumb or some thing..running your big mouth again..

ill tell you why,you are nothing but a troll.getting a buzz out of trying to taking the piss.lol.

your mouth is at it again..is your head empty by any chance,you dont seem to understand any thing at all.

lets talk about what ive said but put it in a say moslem country.what would happen to me for doing blasphemy??

can you see the difference comming to light in every post we make yet???

of course you can,better still so can joe public reading this aswell.

lets talk about sharia yos. on equality to every one non muslims and women alike,eh??

If the west doesnt have christian laws than dont compare it with the sharia law silly paxi.

[Ghaith]

your a gob sh1te.

No that would be your bible.

[Ghaith]

you and all the moslems in the western world would be put to death for blasphemy if that was western law,you fool.you dont believe in old testament or the new.jesus not son of god,crucifiction, resurrection..you are not put to death,why do you think that is?

Muslims did live in places under Christians laws, such as Jerusalem under the Crusaders.So no they would not be put to death Neither where the Jews.
Stupid paxi