Greenhouse28 wrote:stupid girl watch your stupid mouth before you take the name of the Holy Prophet from your dirty mouth
get lost
Al-Tabari wrote:
Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Ibn Ishaq:
The Messenger of God proclaimed God’s message openly and declared Islam publicly to his tribesmen. When he did so, they did not withdraw from him or reject him in anyway, as far as I had heard, UNTIL he spoke of their gods and denounced them. When he did this, they took exception to it and united in opposition and hostility to him, except for those of them whom God had protected from error by means of Islam. The latter were few in number and practiced their faith in secret. His uncle Abu Talib was friendly to him, however, and protected him and shielded him from them. The Messenger of God continued to do God’s work and to proclaim his message, undeterred by anything. When Quraysh saw that he would not give them any satisfaction, they objected to his departing from their ways and denouncing their gods, and seeing that Abu Talib protected him, shielded him from harm, and would not hand him over to them, a number of the nobles of Quraysh, consisting of such men as ‘Utbah b. Rabi‘ah, Shaybah b. Rabi‘ah, Abu al-Bakhtari b. Hisham, al-Aswad b. al-Muttalib, al-Walid b. al-Mughirah, Abu Jahl b. Hisham, al-‘As b. Wa’il and Nubayh and Munabbih, the sons of al-Hajjaj, went to Abu Talib and said, "Abu Talib, your nephew has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values and told us that our forefathers were misguided. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him, for you are just as opposed to him as we are, and we will deal with him for you." Abu Talib gave them a mild answer and declined courteously, and they left him. The Messenger of God continued as before, proclaiming the faith of God and summoning people to it.
After this, Muhammad was estranged from the Quraysh, and they withdrew from him and harbored a secret hatred for him. They talked about him frequently amongst themselves and urged one another against him. Eventually they went to Abu Talib once again. "Abu Talib," they said, "we hold you in respect among us on account of your age, your nobility and your standing. We asked you to forbid your nephew TO ATTACK US, but you did not do so. By God, we can no longer endure this vilification of our forefathers, this derision of our traditional values and this abuse of our gods. Either you restrain him or we shall fight both of you over this until one side or the other is destroyed," or words to that effect. Then they left. This breach and enmity with his tribe weighed heavily on Abu Talib, but he could not reconcile himself to surrendering the Messenger of God to them or deserting him.
Muhammad b. al-Husayn- Ahmad b. al-Mufaddal- Asbat- al-Suddi: A number of men of the Quraysh gathered together with a number of other shaykhs of the Quraysh, and said to one another, "Let us go to Abu Talib and speak to him about Muhammad, so that he will give us justice against him and order him to desist from reviling our gods and we will leave him to the god whom he worships for we fear that this old man may die and we may do something which the Arabs will reproach us for and say, ‘They let him alone until his uncle died, and then they laid hands on him.’"
They sent one of their number, whose name was al-Muttalib, to Abu Talib to ask permission for them to enter. He said, "Here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe asking permission to visit you." He told him to ask them to come in, and when they had done so they said, "Abu Talib, you are our elder and our chief, so give us justice against your nephew and order him to desist from reviling our gods, and we will leave him to his god."
Abu Talib sent for the Messenger of God, and when he came in he said, "Nephew, here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe. They have asked for justice against you, that you should desist from reviling their gods and they will leave you to your god." "Uncle," he said, "shall I not summon them to something which is better for them than their gods?" "What do you summon them to?" he asked. He replied, "I summon them to utter a saying through which the Arabs will submit to them and they will rule over the non-Arabs." Abu Jahl said from among the gathering, "What is it, by your father? We would give you it and ten like it." He answered, "That you should say, ‘There is no deity but God.’" They took fright at that and said, "Ask for anything rather than that!" But he said, "If you were to bring me the sun and put it into my hand, I would not ask you for anything other than this."
They rose up to leave in anger and said, "By God, we shall revile you and your god who commands you to do this!" "The chiefs among them hurried about, exhorting; Go and be staunch to your gods! This is a thing designed…" to the words "naught but an invention.
Ibn Ishaq 167 wrote: When the apostle openly displayed Islam as Allah ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that, they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy.
Ibn Ishaq 183 wrote: [The Meccans] said they had never known anything like the trouble they had endured from this fellow. He had declared their mode of life foolish, insulted their forefathers, reviled their religion, divided the community and cursed their gods
Ibn Kathir on 6:108 wrote: Allah prohibits His Messenger and the believers from insulting the false deities of the idolators, although there is a clear benefit in doing so. Insulting their deities will lead to a bigger evil than its benefit, for the idolators might retaliate by insulting the God of the believers, Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He. `Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas commented on this Ayah [6:108]; "They (disbelievers) said, `O Muhammad! You will stop insulting our gods, or we will insult your Lord.' Thereafter, Allah prohibited the believers from insulting the disbelievers' idols
<lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge.>" `Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said, "Muslims used to insult the idols of the disbelievers and the disbelievers would retaliate by insulting Allah wrongfully without knowledge "
Cassie wrote:Truthsayer: we've been through this. Muhammad was not persecuted because he was allowed to live.
Cassie wrote:Because Cutthroat No. 1 said, "Whoever changes his religion, kill him."
You can't persecute someone when you treat them better than they treat you or themselves.
skynightblaze wrote:Its Muhhamad who started all this sh!t. You didnt quote the quotes that tell us why the conflict began. The pagans were a tolerant bunch but they became hostile and aggressive against Muhhamad only when the situation was intolerable i.e Muhhamad didnt stop abusing their GODS.
TruthSayer wrote:Actually I did. I mentioned that the real persecution first began after they complained to Abu Talib that he was critisizing their religion. But I also showed that there was enmity towards him already when he made his very first public call, such as Abu Lahab saying "Destruction to you" and throwing rocks at him.
Ibn Ishaq 428 wrote:Then the apostle heard that Abu Sufyan was coming from Syria with a large caravan of Qurish, containing their money and merchandise, accompanied by some thirty or forty men… When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.”
Truthsayer wrote:Cassie wrote:Because Cutthroat No. 1 said, "Whoever changes his religion, kill him."
Tu quoque.
Truthsayer wrote:Cassie wrote:Truthsayer: we've been through this. Muhammad was not persecuted because he was allowed to live.
You shamelessly ignore the 3 or 4 attempts made on his life. I really don't understand how you can keep saying it, especially when you don't have any logically argument. The Quraysh even bragged that they persecuted him.
We shall not cease to persecute you until we destroy you or you destroy us. (Ishaq)
Truthsayer wrote:Cassie wrote:Because Cutthroat No. 1 said, "Whoever changes his religion, kill him."
Tu quoque.
Truthsayer wrote:You can't persecute someone when you treat them better than they treat you or themselves.
The worst the muslims did was some mild critisism of their religion. Does that in your world of twisted morals justify discrimination, theft, violence, exile, torture and murder against muslims? I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
Greenhouse28 wrote:stupid girl watch your stupid mouth before you take the name of the Holy Prophet from your dirty mouth
get lost
Greenhouse28 wrote:infact it is you who is the hypocrite your foul mouth is out of control infact you should be in a burqa![]()
Greenhouse28 wrote:infact it is you who is the hypocrite your foul mouth is out of control infact you should be in a burqa![]()
skynightblaze wrote:
See what it means? It means that if quraish had obeyed Muhhamad and his Allah they would not have been dead today! So who is the culprit here?
expozIslam wrote:Whether MOhammad was persecuted or not should not even be a question for debate because if he was the messenger of God, then he should have had the power of persuasion to turn enemies into friends which he clearly did not have or use.
crazymonkie_ wrote:.... This guy's just too good. We sure we're not dealing with a Poe? I mean, I've never heard of a *Muslim* Poe, but it's probably only a matter of time.
SAM wrote:expozIslam wrote:Whether MOhammad was persecuted or not should not even be a question for debate because if he was the messenger of God, then he should have had the power of persuasion to turn enemies into friends which he clearly did not have or use.
expozIslam wrote: Actually, I lied.....
Truthsayer wrote:Spoiler! :
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