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Your posts have been swelling without much substance in them. I need to cut it short since I have been requested to make short inputs. Not many would bother to read tediously lengthy posts so; I would chop off irrelevant parts in your posts while answering it. Besides, I will make them in parts or else our readers will get bored to death going through lengthy inputs.
Lincoln wrote: The rotten basics as you have now raised were initially hidden in your thought-process. As you have mentioned this now, I can go and assume what you are trying it say.
What are the basics of Islam..The very basics? As you were Muslim as per your claim! I believe you know that but those who don’t know about this , I am here informing them about the very basics of Islam..
1. Believing in ONE TRUE GOD .
And Believing in all the messengers of God, from the first Adam(Pbuh) to the very last Muhammad(Pbuh).
2. Praying to God five times a day.
3. Fasting in the month of Ramadan to feel the sufferings of the poor and to show the love towards God.
4. Paying Zakah(ofourse those who are wealthy)
5. Performing Hajj for those who are capable of.
We are not against Muslims performing any of the above. This is not what I mean rotten basics. Indeed there is rotten in them as I don’t approve the concept of Zakat. It only pays to create parasites relying on others’ generousness. This would sound harsh, but Zakat as an enterprise is not what a progressive religion should promote. Remember the ancient Chinese proverb: “If you give fish to a man, you feed him one day. If you teach him fishing, you feed him throughout his life”.
Zakat means giving fish. Did you get me?
Now, I am not dying to oppose the Zakat system, but these five pillars are not the basics I want you Muslims discard. You may keep performing them though I always wondered why many Muslims loose their precious lives on their way of earning money to go on pilgrimage to Mecca to round and round a Ka’ba, to kiss a black-stone, to run like a frantic in between two hills..!! Anyway, carry on you guys but there is a sixth pillar which makes Islam a real Messlam. It is Jihad. Indeed Muhammad did not mention it while telling his thugs on the pillars of the cult he invented but no Muslims can ignore the importance of Jihad because it is a holy ordinance. It is Quranically sanctioned, and as long as Quran remains, Muslims will keep at least longing for it to turn their living world and the rest Islamic.
Evolve from this basic. You can only do it by reinterpreting Jihad. Still no way because reinterpretation should not hold water all the times; Well, I will explain of Jihad and its importance in a Muslim’s life in an article. If you may please be patient, I am going to launch it soon in the FFI main site.
Lincoln wrote: Now, these are the very basics of Islam and any person who sticks to these basics can be called a true Muslim. Are these basics pose any threat to the modern civilization. Are they rotten?.. Is there anything that might be harmful for the people of other faith? No there is nothing. And As you were Muslim, you know that these five aspects are called FIVE PILLERS OF ISLAM. So, what rotten basics you talk that much loudly.
I explained it above. Quran is the rotten basic. A manual which keeps you reminding the theory “We against them” is rotten. It is decrepit so discard it or rewrite it in the modern context.
Important factor here is: The five pillars are not mentioned in Quran as pillars of Islam. Quran gives equal importance to all those along with Jihad. Or I would rather say, Jihad being on top if one reads and tries to understand its message objectively. The last revealed chapter of Quran Surah Taubah carries the ultimate message of it. And it is full of incitement to go on offensive war.
Lincoln wrote: And when we keep the basics with us, we can evolve dynamically regarding the new aspects of life that was alien to previous ages. Who doesn’t understand that.. So, we evolve by keeping our basics. Evolution of belief doesn’t mean you will have to give up your basics. (Even if you talk about the evolution of beings, you would find that even though you are multi-cellular, you have come from a unicellular being. Get the commonality of cell). The very basics of Islam are the nucleus of Islam and the surrounding gets changed according the demand and new-dimension of a particular age. But if you try to say that we should avoid the basics those I have quoted here then I say that yes! These basics are in on way can be termed as problematic let alone rotten to the age. Therefore, again, I am sorry to say that you didn’t get Islam in your days of being a Muslim that has eventually led you here.
Now, this exceeds the limit. Dude… Is your Islam such an innocuous stuff that it only commands you to prostrate, fast, give alms and go to that Sordid hellhole for pilgrimage? Aren’t there do’s and don’ts in Islam?
What are those goddamn do’s and don’ts you have to observe? What is the penalty of doing the don’ts?
Hey man… your Islam means more; a lot more than those five pillars. They are not the basics but they are what are imperative for you to be a Muslim but still there is a long way to go for you to become a true Muslim. Do not dole out nonsense here; who are you trying to fool out?
What is Sharia? Would you please explain to us and let us see whether Islam has any other side too than those great Basics you mentioned.
Islam can not be in terms with many of the modern concepts like democracy, secular humanism because these concepts are not approved by your seventh century hate manual. It has its own laws of governing people. In above you are trying to constrain your religion in your personal life only which is considered as blasphemous even by nineteenth century scholars like Maududi and Syed Qutub. You as a Muslim can not conciliate with Taghooti government but it is your duty to strive for an Islamic government wherever you are. If you are in a weak position (as you are in now I doubt) Quran commands you to cleverly hide your vicious motives and play Taqiyya until you gain the upper-hand.
How can we make sure you are not playing Taqiyya now? After all, it is Quranically sanctioned or prescribed for a Muslim to hide his real motives while staying under infidel system until Muslims overwhelm infidel in numbers thus get the edge. (You may take it in any sense)
What happens when a Sharia state is established? How is an infidel treated under Sharia? What about Jizya which is also a holy decree found in Quran? How do you punish petty offences like dating, adultery? Can you please be overt a little?
Lincoln wrote: The every violent part has its context to it and you will have to ponder on the context before attributing those verses. When the Glorious Quran says that "fight those who fights you".. You know with whom you are eligible to fight. When you see the verse "Kill them wherever you find them".. read the context, as it doesn’t refer you to kill every one rather a specific group that declared war against Islam. When you read "smite their necks", you should get the context that its an action in battle.. Therefore, there are explanation of those so called 'violent ' verses and we are providing with those explanations because we want people to live in peace and happiness. Now, if anyone wants to create a confusion in todays world then he/she can explain those things in a different way to create an altogether different picture which you might like! ..
Nice preaching but no cigar. Context argument is pure and uncorrupted nonsense given that your hate manual’s relevance protracts to the end of times. Please have not your cake and eat it too.
Of fighting, there are three clear stages as we understand from Quran.
Stage 1: Fighting was not prescribed in any chance. (Muhammad was in Mecca and if he and his alter-ego was foolish enough to fight then Meccans like he fought in his Medinan life, world would have been safe from this burden. (What a chance those Meccans Missed...!)
Stage 2: Fighting prescribed in self defence. (This was when Muhammad earned some followers in Medina. But self defence should be read as raiding others for livelihood. Ghazw: a pre-Islamic norm of plundering others has been implemented by Muhammad. Ghazw means anything that belongs to the other side making a legitimate target for the stronger party to plunder. Muhammad started from the raid of Waddan. His god from upstairs blessed him to raid others since it was the only way god could see his holy religion can be established on earth because his already bankrupt prophet and followers were much in need of booties, be it stolen or robbed.
Stage 3: Offensive Jihad ordained. (After Muhammad winning one third of Arabia, it was time for god to discharge hate verses. Quran Surah Taubah was revealed in this context. We see a frustrated god in it who is much concerned on why his faithful do not march on. Well, Tabuk war the last one Muhammad partook is notorious for many Muslims not participating in it. It was spring time in Arabia and like Muhammad and his god, not all of those barbarians were willing to go on and on)
So, do not play tricks with context argument. Even if you cling to context, we have all rights to believe the ultimate message of Quran is to fight infidels to subdue and submit them to Islam or forcing to pay Jizya in utter humiliation. It is what Quran chapter 9:29 means. The holy ordinance in 9:29 is not to fight those who fight Muslims but to fight those who do not believe in Allah and his apostle.
I have had debates on this with many Muslims in the past. I know what the ultimate message of your god is, or if you do not get it yet; let me link you to one of my articles which is in FFI archives now. Click the link below only if you don’t mind. (This is to save time and bandwidth and not to promote my making): http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index. ... e&sid=2036
Lincoln wrote: The definition and the outlook you have is different from what I have. I don’t take it as "going to the obsolete past" because everything that comes out from the past cant be termed as obsolete as long as it can survive in the modern world with sufficient vigor and as long as it can compete with any new findings of the modern age.
This is what it means freaking theological stubbornness. What relevance do you see in the verses below? Let me bring your Quran:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.[Quran: 5:38]
Don’t you think this brutality is obsolete? Hey man… it is an obsolete law like many other brutal laws you see in Hammurabi codex or Torah. But your barbarian Muhammad added it to his basket and carried out this punishment in his lifetime on a woman who stole something from what Muhammad plundered from other people. I say this beforehand for you to not waste your fuel there is a context, or punishment is only applied for huge offences kinds of freaking excuses. Here goes your Sahih Bukhari:
Narrated 'Urwa bin Az-Zubair: A lady committed theft during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle in the Ghazwa of Al-Fath, ((i.e. Conquest of Mecca). Her folk went to Usama bin Zaid to intercede for her (with the Prophet). When Usama interceded for her with Allah's Apostle, the color of the face of Allah's Apostle changed and he said, "Do you intercede with me in a matter involving one of the legal punishments prescribed by Allah?" Usama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Ask Allah's Forgiveness for me." So in the afternoon, Allah's Apostle got up and addressed the people. He praised Allah as He deserved and then said, "Amma ba'du ! The nations prior to you were destroyed because if a noble amongst them stole, they used to excuse him, and if a poor person amongst them stole, they would apply (Allah's) Legal Punishment to him. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad stole, I would cut her hand." Then Allah's Apostle gave his order in the case of that woman and her hand was cut off. Afterwards her repentance proved sincere and she got married. 'Aisha said, "That lady used to visit me and I used to convey her demands to Allah's Apostle [Sahih Bukhari: Book: 59, Hadith: 597]
Tell us what relevance do you see for this punishment in our times? Can you give this up? Well, if you do, that means you are not obeying your god and his messenger. That’s it;
To be continued............