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Re: Comment Section: Debunker vs Charleslemartel & Others

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:25 am
by debunker
What do you defend dear debunker? I would like to know if you don't mind. If you should say you came not to defend Muslims, can I assume it is to bury them?


I don't want to bury them... I just wish I could exile most of them... to another planet... and start over.

I'm defending Islam (freed from the of the power of the scholars). My hope is that every single Muslim starts thinking for themselves and ignoring this false holiness of the scholars.

Re: Comment Section: Debunker vs Charleslemartel & Others

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:12 pm
by KhaliL
debunker wrote:
What do you defend dear debunker? I would like to know if you don't mind. If you should say you came not to defend Muslims, can I assume it is to bury them?


I'm defending Islam (freed from the of the power of the scholars).
Spoiler! :
My hope is that every single Muslim starts thinking for themselves and ignoring this false holiness of the scholars
.


Is it any existing version or are you for reinventing one? :lol:

I am asking this because it is evident from your posts that you are in quest of spirituality. The same thing that paved the way for a sect called Sufism in Islam. Sufism has quite a little or almost nothing to do with the real, unadulterated Islam. The doctrinaire of this Arabian cult never confers with the elemental spiritualistic podium of Sufism which is set to get to the length of disagreeing the accepted norm (or call it) essential facet of Islam. Sufis (mostly) reject the external means of Jihad to resign to its passive version of internal struggle. Many existing religious ideas have helped in the formation of this entrancing code of struggle within, like the influence of Zoroastrian fundamental concept of right and wrong is undeniably evident in this very notion of Jihad-within. However, Sufism helped Islam to sustain as an ideology by recompensing what Islam originally lacked and what human beings began to ask for. Constituting some rituals shrewdly designed to structure a political bunch, well organized to fight round the clock, Islam was (is) nothing short of a materialistic ideology. When it was almost to meet the inevitable fate of such notions past the history, Sufism emerged from within as a redeemer. The quest for spiritual satisfaction of beings blessed with the power of conscience has its roots in the pre-historic animists suggesting the fact, worldly pleasures seldom withstands or further beyond a limit.

This is to say, what we call sentiments, the exalted human emotions such as love, compassion, mercy all are strictly compressed in Islam. Music has colossal power to arouse one’s sentiments. Poetry is also the same. Muhammad abhorred both these because to consort to sentiments was the last thing he wanted his followers to be. Clever enough, he sensed the danger of music and poetry possessed and effectively kept them in check.

But, humanity is still far beyond this Arabian nomad. Wherever human beings survive; do their means of sentiments too. Since, lacking this essential element of a human being, Muhammad failed but both music and poetry survived.

So, Muhammad fails Mozart and Shakespeare.

Regards
KF

Re: Comment Section: Debunker vs Charleslemartel & Others

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:54 pm
by debunker
Is it any existing version or are you for reinventing one?


This is not the first time I'm laughed at for daring to think for myself and it won't be the last. And guess what? I don't care if I was called a Sufi, a Sunni or even Non Muslim. And while Sufism had external elements to affect its formation, my so-called "version" of Islam has evolved while I was being raised by strictly Sunni parents in a mostly Sunni country where Sunni scholars ruled supreme.

BTW, this might be a surprise to you, but I rarely ever think of Mohammed (or any other prophet), it is God who occupies my spiritual thoughts.

PS. Music was not even mentioned once in the Quran and only hypocritical poets were condemned.

Re: Comment Section: Debunker vs Charleslemartel & Others

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:52 pm
by charleslemartel
debunker wrote:
Is it any existing version or are you for reinventing one?


This is not the first time I'm laughed at for daring to think for myself and it won't be the last. And guess what? I don't care if I was called a Sufi, a Sunni or even Non Muslim. And while Sufism had external elements to affect its formation, my so-called "version" of Islam has evolved while I was being raised by strictly Sunni parents in a mostly Sunni country where Sunni scholars ruled supreme.

BTW, this might be a surprise to you, but I rarely ever think of Mohammed (or any other prophet), it is God who occupies my spiritual thoughts.

PS. Music was not even mentioned once in the Quran and only hypocritical poets were condemned.


And this ability to think out of the box is the reason I respect you. But in my humble opinion, you are yet to break free of the final fetter i.e. Quran or Islam. However, I do understand that it takes a lot of time to free oneself of the conditioning of childhood.

Wish you all the best.

Re: Comment Section: Debunker vs Charleslemartel & Others

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:17 pm
by kamaal
A lot is being discussed here but my friends seem to be overlooking a vital point. It’s “Should we in the nuclear, IT and space age now, allow ourselves to be outwitted by the unread Bedouins of the sixth century and earlier who rode asses and mules?” Whilst continuing our tirade against Islam we should add this one too on the debate menu.