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Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:13 am
by KufirbintKufr
Can you really translate Allah as "the one god" ?

Is the word "Allah" coming from merging the two words: al (the one) and ilah -god ?

Or is it just dawah.

Any answers appreciated. :) Preferably with sources...

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:27 am
by Marie
KufirbintKufr wrote:Can you really translate Allah as "the one god" ?

Is the word "Allah" coming from merging the two words: al (the one) and ilah -god ?

Or is it just dawah.

Any answers appreciated. :) Preferably with sources...




The Enclyclopedia of Islam, states Allah was known to the pre-islamic Arabs, he was one of the meccan deities.

The name of Allah is derived from the Arabic compound of Al-ilah ( Al meaning the and ilah meaning god )

The Kaba was worshipped by the pagan meccans and was dedicated to the sun, moon, and Five visible planets. From The Great Divide: The Failure of Islam and The Triumph of the West.

From FFI:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/content/was ... arab-pagan

Karen Armstrong states in her book, A History of God: The 4000 Year Quest for Judaism, Christianity and Islam, Allah was worshipped as the moon god.

F.E. Peters who is a University professor of Middle East Studies and scholar of Islam states in his book The Voice, the Word, the Books: The Scared Scripture of the Jews, Christians and Muslims, Allah was a pagan moon god.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:38 am
by AhmedBahgat
KufirbintKufr wrote:Can you really translate Allah as "the one god" ?

Is the word "Allah" coming from merging the two words: al (the one) and ilah -god ?

Or is it just dawah.

Any answers appreciated. :) Preferably with sources...



The right answer is this:

Allah is not the combination of two words Al=Ilah

Allah is a word which is also unique name that is drived from nothing

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:37 am
by KufirbintKufr
AhmedBahgat wrote:
KufirbintKufr wrote:Can you really translate Allah as "the one god" ?

Is the word "Allah" coming from merging the two words: al (the one) and ilah -god ?

Or is it just dawah.

Any answers appreciated. :) Preferably with sources...



The right answer is this:

Allah is not the combination of two words Al=Ilah

Allah is a word which is also unique name that is drived from nothing


Thank you. It confirms what I have found.

Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god').

Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do.

Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities:

"Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..."

Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word.


http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:47 pm
by AhmedBahgat
KufirbintKufr wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
KufirbintKufr wrote:Can you really translate Allah as "the one god" ?

Is the word "Allah" coming from merging the two words: al (the one) and ilah -god ?

Or is it just dawah.

Any answers appreciated. :) Preferably with sources...



The right answer is this:

Allah is not the combination of two words Al=Ilah

Allah is a word which is also unique name that is drived from nothing


Thank you. It confirms what I have found.

Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god').

Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do.

Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities:

"Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..."

Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word.


http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm


Great, the above grammar argument is irrefutable, I am actually delighted to have learnt something from you that I was not aware of.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:18 pm
by antineoETC
Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do.


This does not rule out the name "Allah" originating from two words meaning "The god"

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:12 pm
by KufirbintKufr
Ignorance or deception ?

wikipedia wrote:The term is used throughout the Qur'an in passages detailing the existence of God and of the beliefs of non-Muslims in other divinities. Notably, the first statement of the shahadah is, "there is no ʾilāh but al-Lāh" "there is no god but God".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BEil%C4%81h

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:05 pm
by Ibn Rushd
I believe the current scholarly debate no longer resides in the "definite article" camp, but in the Elohim. In Hebrew we have אלהים and in Syriac/Aramaic we have אלהא which depending on the dialect can be read either as 'alah'a or 'eloh'o. The apostrophes are transliterations of the alef.

The scenario proposed is that the Arabic took over the Syriac word, and doubled the "l" for some reason, which no one has been been able to decipher as of yet. This makes more sense than the "definite article" which would mean that you are always referring to a specific god, while the Allah=Alaha/Eloho=Elohim makes more sense.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:44 pm
by AhmedBahgat
KufirbintKufr wrote:Ignorance or deception ?

wikipedia wrote:The term is used throughout the Qur'an in passages detailing the existence of God and of the beliefs of non-Muslims in other divinities. Notably, the first statement of the shahadah is, "there is no ʾilāh but al-Lāh" "there is no god but God".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BEil%C4%81h


Lol

there is no god but god

how funny, dismiss yourself, dumby

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:52 pm
by KufirbintKufr
I found a post written by dhimmi no more on Daniel Pipes blog. Maybe it will help us to refute the al ilah Allah nonsense. His post is a response to a post written by abd al-rahman and I put dhimmi no more answers in bold.

Our dear abd al-rahman who is really a graduate not of a Pakistanimadrassa but a glorious islamic kuttab wrote

>"No wrong. Ilah means God and al-ilah means the god big difference and did you flunk your class of qawa3id wa nahw al-lugha al-3arabiya?"

>My friend we don't speak plain arabic in the middle east ,in fact we have alot of arabic accents you can't count and if Al-Alta3reef makes a problem in your language that doesn't mean it makes problem in our language ...

No your Egyptian Arabic is not a lahgha it is a real lugha

>You can come to the public here in the middle east and speak to them saying illah or Al-illah wouldn't make a difference to them ,

Really? well let us see; in Surat al-fatha it says: alhamdu lillahi rabi al-3alameen. Now let us get rid of al before 3alameen and now it is: alhamdu lillahi rabi 3alameen now you realize that it is still Arabic but it is poor Arabic syntax and without the al (definite article) the syntax becomes without a clear meaning

Now let us do something else: alhamdu lillahi al-rab al-3alameen and now you know right away that this is also poor grammar and syntax as the word al-3alameen is plural so how can we fix it? it would be by removing the al before the rab right? So you see: al or the Arabic language definite article or al al-ta3reef is a fundamental part of Arabic grammar and syntax and therefore the word rab does not become a substitute for the word al-rab as you seem to claim

So do you still believe that the word al-rab and rab or ilah and al-ilah are one and the same from the garmmar and syntax point of view? But again they do not teach your likes good Arabic grammar and you learn it by pure fahlawa

Shame on you for posting this nonsense


> They wouldn't stop and tell you "hey you are making no sense what you mean it should be Al-illah not illah??!!"......

Your masters the HIjazi Arabs tell us that the word Allah is really a contarcion of the word al-ilah which means that the word Allah really means the god and not god and now you realized or I hope so that the al al-ta3reef makes all the difference except in the minds of those that flunked their Arabic language garmmar class

But here is your bonus for today: your Arab masters are wrong as the word Allah is a loan word from al-lugha al-suryaniyya (Syriac) where the word for God is Alaha or Allaha and the Arabized word is Allah which means that the word Allah reall means God. Did you get that much?


>I understand Qawa3id al nahw very well and I don't need you advice ... Arabic isn't your language so you are the one who needs to learn not me

Oh the Islamic ego thing again and for this I pity you

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:39 pm
by GrupoCupda
Ilah or Elah depending how you choose to write it in latin alphabet can be translated as God in English . Al Ilah or al Elah with the article Al can be translated in English as the God . However the word Allah is one word it cannot be separated into Al _lah where you can say that Al is the article the . It will be like saying that the word theory in English can be writen as the _ ory where the is the article . So the word Allah cannot be translated because it´s name and not noun. It´s the name of God who created heaven and earth . If anybody claims that the word Allah = God in English ask him how can you say my God in Arabic . You know what ? he will not be able to use the word Allah so which word is going to use ? is going to be the word Elah or Ilah . Therefore the word Elah is God in English

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:20 am
by Marie
GrupoCupda wrote:Ilah or Elah depending how you choose to write it in latin alphabet can be translated as God in English . Al Ilah or al Elah with the article Al can be translated in English as the God . However the word Allah is one word it cannot be separated into Al _lah where you can say that Al is the article the . It will be like saying that the word theory in English can be writen as the _ ory where the is the article . So the word Allah cannot be translated because it´s name and not noun. It´s the name of God who created heaven and earth . If anybody claims that the word Allah = God in English ask him how can you say my God in Arabic . You know what ? he will not be able to use the word Allah so which word is going to use ? is going to be the word Elah or Ilah . Therefore the word Elah is God in English


Nice try. The Biblical God and the Islamic god are not the same deity. As for the word Elah, it is pronounced El-Law which comes from Aramaic and there linguistic differences Aramaic and Arabic.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:30 am
by manfred
If Allah is some mysterious name which has no origin at all, then who gave this deity its name?

In fact, the argument from grammar is not quite so clear cut as it looks at all: The contraction of al-ilah into allah simply, over time, acquired the properties of a name and thus turned into a name in its own right. This means is was gramatically treated rather like a proper name after it was was used in that way. That does not mean it has lost its origins, though.

"Charity" is an abstract concept but ALSO a girl's name. "Ernest" is adjective but also a name. In fact,most personal names started off as phrases, concepts or descriptions: Christopher = bringer of Christ, Sophia =wisdom, Samuel - God has listened, Alexander= conqueror of men, Benedict=the blessed one, quamra/Qamrul=moon,Sadiq=honest.... we could list hundreds like that.

Hubal the moongod was known as allah, That is why old Mo did not have to explain to his bunch of thieves who this allah was, they already knew.Hubal had this title because he was the "boss god", the main one, "the god". It was a form of address of Hubal, the moongod, so in that sense a "name". Like much of Mulism religious practicies, the so-call name of their god is in fact just something "borrowed" from others.

So "allah" is in a sense a name, but it is neither unique nor without origin.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:59 am
by piscohot
not only is the quran confusing... even the god in it is confusing
:lol:

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:32 am
by Marie
manfred wrote:If Allah is some mysterious name which has no origin at all, then who gave this deity its name?

In fact, the argument from grammar is not quite so clear cut as it looks at all: The contraction of al-ilah into allah simply, over time, acquired the properties of a name and thus turned into a name in its own right. This means is was gramatically treated rather like a proper name after it was was used in that way. That does not mean it has lost its origins, though.

"Charity" is an abstract concept but ALSO a girl's name. "Ernest" is adjective but also a name. In fact,most personal names started off as phrases, concepts or descriptions: Christopher = bringer of Christ, Sophia =wisdom, Samuel - God has listened, Alexander= conqueror of men, Benedict=the blessed one, quamra/Qamrul=moon,Sadiq=honest.... we could list hundreds like that.

Hubal the moongod was known as allah, That is why old Mo did not have to explain to his bunch of thieves who this allah was, they already knew.Hubal had this title because he was the "boss god", the main one, "the god". It was a form of address of Hubal, the moongod, so in that sense a "name". Like much of Mulism religious practicies, the so-call name of their god is in fact just something "borrowed" from others.

So "allah" is in a sense a name, but it is neither unique nor without origin.


Hubal is allah which means Islam is repackaged polytheism. I read somewhere it was a common thing amongst pagans in the Middle East to bow down to their pagan gods in the same manner Muslims pray to allah.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:38 am
by GrupoCupda
Marie wrote:
GrupoCupda wrote:Ilah or Elah depending how you choose to write it in latin alphabet can be translated as God in English . Al Ilah or al Elah with the article Al can be translated in English as the God . However the word Allah is one word it cannot be separated into Al _lah where you can say that Al is the article the . It will be like saying that the word theory in English can be writen as the _ ory where the is the article . So the word Allah cannot be translated because it´s name and not noun. It´s the name of God who created heaven and earth . If anybody claims that the word Allah = God in English ask him how can you say my God in Arabic . You know what ? he will not be able to use the word Allah so which word is going to use ? is going to be the word Elah or Ilah . Therefore the word Elah is God in English


Nice try. The Biblical God and the Islamic god are not the same deity. As for the word Elah, it is pronounced El-Law which comes from Aramaic and there linguistic differences Aramaic and Arabic.


You neither speak Arabic nor Armaic . If Biblical God is not Allah then why Jews and Arab christians used it in the past and even today to refer to biblical God ?????? . Who told you that the word Elah is pronouced as el law in Armaic ???? . I watched the movie of passion of christ in which Jesus spoke Aramic and when he was on the cross he said the famous biblical passage My God why have you forsaken me . Do you know how he said my God in Armaic ????? Elahi and thats exactly how we say it in Arabic and you are telling me that Elah it is pronounced El-Law in Armaic LOL :lol:

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:45 am
by GrupoCupda
manfred wrote: Hubal the moongod was known as allah, .


Do some reading before you spite here ignorance .

Also some have suggested that the Islamic god Allah is a version of Hubal, a link which would also explain Islam's use of the crescent moon as a symbol.[9] Realising the weight of history including the literary evidence falsifies the theories,Others easily refute this, citing for example the Battle of Uhud where the distinction between the followers of Allah and the followers of Hubal is made clear by the statements of Muhammad and Abu Sufyan. Ibn Hisham narrates in the biography of Muhammad:

When Abu Sufyan wanted to leave he went to the top of the mountain and shouted loudly, saying: "You have done a fine work; victory in war goes by turns. Today in exchange for the day (of Badr). Show your superiority, Hubal," i.e. vindicate your religion. The Prophet told Umar to get up and respond to him and shout: "Allah is the most high and the most glorious. We are not equal. Our dead are in Paradise; and your dead are in Hell-Fire!"[10]


The other incident during the battle narrated in Ṣaḥīh of al-Bukhari,

Abu Sufyan ascended a high place and said, "Is Muhammad present amongst the people?" The Prophet said, "Do not answer him." Abu Sufyan said, "Is the son of Abu Quhafa present among the people?" The Prophet said, "Do not answer him." Abu Sufyan said, "Is the son of Al-Khattab amongst the people?" He then added, "All these people have been killed, for, were they alive, they would have replied." On that, 'Umar could not help saying, "You are a liar, O enemy of Allah! Allah has kept what will make you unhappy." Abu Sufyan said, "Superior may be Hubal!" On that the Prophet said (to his companions), "Reply to him." They asked, "What may we say?" He said, "Say: Allah is More Elevated and More Majestic!" Abu Sufyan said, "We have (the idol) al-‘Uzza, whereas you have no ‘Uzza!" The Prophet said (to his companions), "Reply to him." They said, "What may we say?" The Prophet said, "Say: Allah is our Helper and you have no helper."[11]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:28 am
by manfred
oh,give it a rest with the copy/paste.

This debate has long since settled. Try read this or this

You do realise that the very sources your wiki article quote support what I say, it's just, due to the "political correctness" of wiki editors you cannot say what stares you in the face?

Look what your own source actually says:
Abu Sufyan shouts mockingly at Mohammed "show your superiority Hubal". Abu Sufyan had no issues with worshipping Hubal or allah, his problem was that he does not acknoledge the superiority of allah over other gods. He accuses Mohammed of worshipping Hibal/allah at the expense of other deities. So in a vulgar shouting match Mohammed has a minion shouting back "Allah is the most high and the most glorious. We are not equal. Our dead are in Paradise; and your dead are in Hell-Fire"

In plain English: Abu Sfyan says allah is not the only god or the superior one. Mo says yes he is.



Case closed.

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:39 am
by GrupoCupda
manfred wrote:oh,give it a rest with the copy/paste.

This debate has long since settled. Try read this or this

You do realise that the very sources your wiki article quote support what I say, it's just, due to the "political correctness" of wiki editors you cannot say what stares you in the face?

Look what your own source actually says:
Abu Sufyan shouts mockingly at Mohammed "show your superiority Hubal". Abu Sufyan had no issues with worshipping Hubal or allah, his problem was that he does not acknoledge the superiority of allah over other gods. He accuses Mohammed of worshipping Hibal/allah at the expense of other deities. So in a vulgar shouting match Mohammed has a minion shouting back "Allah is the most high and the most glorious. We are not equal. Our dead are in Paradise; and your dead are in Hell-Fire"

In plain English: Abu Sfyan says allah is not the only god or the superior one. Mo says yes he is.



Case closed.



You actually saying that Jews and Arab christians did worship god by the name of Allah. The link which you put is full of errors only Arabic ignorant person like you buy it :lol: :lol: :lol: . Read my first post in this thread

Re: Allah= Al+ilah ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:13 am
by manfred
You actually saying that Jews and Arab christians did worship god by the name of Allah.


Stawman arguments now? Jews and Christians never worshiped any god called Allah. It's just that "God" in the bible was translated into Arabic into "Allah", by some, due to pressure from their Muslim "overlords".

Look, this topic has been debated many times here, so I am getting tired to repeat things over and over. Carry on showing you behind to hubal five times a day, but leave the Jewish and Christian God out of it, He has nothing to do with Allah.

By the way, you do know that hubal also was knowns as the two horned Ba'al? Do you want to tell us about this two-horned prophet or yours?

Also,, tell us the origins of the rites of the hajj...