A question for paarsurrey.

[sum]

Hello paarsurrey

Do you love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Bible?

sum

[paarsurrey]

Hello paarsurrey

Do you love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Bible?

sum

Hi friend Sum


I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran. The Bible, I mean the OTBible does not mention accounts of Jesus and Mary. The NTBible only gives the mythical account of Jesus, and does not present the real life account of Jesus. The NTBible, as I understand, is neither Word from the mouth of Creator- God Allah YHWH, nor even the mouth of Jesus himself. It is not even written by the faithful disciples of Jesus, but by the deserting persons who posed to be the disciples of Jesus; and who never were even the witness of the event of crucifixion, in which Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross.

There is no point in loving myths. The account of Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran is witnessed by the Creator- God Allah YHWH; who is the best witness of events of past, present and the future.

A real Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran could solve the ethical, moral and spiritual needs of the West; in which the Bible is so lacking being only mythical. Jesus and Mary could introduce the West with Muhammad, the Seal of Messengers and Prophets.

I think it is easy to understand; and you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[Marie]

Hello paarsurrey

Do you love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Bible?

sum

Hi friend Sum


I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran. The Bible, I mean the OTBible does not mention accounts of Jesus and Mary. The NTBible only gives the mythical account of Jesus, and does not present the real life account of Jesus. The NTBible, as I understand, is neither Word from the mouth of Creator- God Allah YHWH, nor even the mouth of Jesus himself. It is not even written by the faithful disciples of Jesus, but by the deserting persons who posed to be the disciples of Jesus; and who never were even the witness of the event of crucifixion, in which Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross.

There is no point in loving myths. The account of Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran is witnessed by the Creator- God Allah YHWH; who is the best witness of events of past, present and the future.

A real Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran could solve the ethical, moral and spiritual needs of the West; in which the Bible is so lacking being only mythical. Jesus and Mary could introduce the West with Muhammad, the Seal of Messengers and Prophets.

I think it is easy to understand; and you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Prove to us the Quran is the word of God.

[paarsurrey]

Hi friend Marie

Please prove to me that Torah is the word of God?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[expozIslam]

Hi friend Marie

Please prove to me that Torah is the word of God?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The burden of proof is on you. You are claiming that Quran is the word of God. So, prove it.

[Marie]

Hi friend Marie

Please prove to me that Torah is the word of God?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

You must first respond to my question. Then I will answer your question.

Besides it was you who claimed the Quran is the word of God and I am merely asking for burden of proof.

[manfred]

Right...
so ALL those who were close to Jesus when he actually lived are lying in their witness statements to us. The whole community of eariest Christians knew nothing about Jesus or chose to hide whatever they knew in order to mislead later generation.

Then, 600 years later, along comes an an Arab who claims he alone knows the true version of the life of Jesus a version nobody else has ever heard of before, but which, by some strange coincident fits in very nicely in supporting this Arabs wild claims to be a "prophet".

That is your position, paarsurrey, it seems.

The biblical version bears witness to Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection. Mohammed could not let that stand at it immediately invalidates his usurpation of the title of prophet. So he devised his own version in with Jesus is a minor prophet to the Jews "preparing the way" for Mohammed.

The quran's version is a very obvious fabrication by Mohammed and you need to have something wrong with your logic circuits not to see that.

The biblical account of the crucifixion is mentioned also by historians hostile to Christianity, like the Jewish writer Josephus, and by the Roman Herodotus, both broadly contemporaries. So even if you deny the bible account, to accept Mohammed''s account, you need to reject historical evidence as well.

The quran's version is simple something Mohammed "borrowed and adapted" for the quran to suit his own purposes.

Muslims have adopted his completely dishonest approach to history throughout, here is one rather comical example:

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4766&p=78351#p78351

[paarsurrey]

Hi friend Marie

Please prove to me that Torah is the word of God?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The burden of proof is on you. You are claiming that Quran is the word of God. So, prove it.

Hi friends

So, our friedns Marie and expozIslam don't believe that Torah is the Word of Creator- God Allah YHWH. Am I right?

Thanks

I love Jesus and Marie as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[Marie]

Hi friend Marie

Please prove to me that Torah is the word of God?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The burden of proof is on you. You are claiming that Quran is the word of God. So, prove it.

Hi friends

So, our friedns Marie and expozIslam don't believe that Torah is the Word of Creator- God Allah YHWH. Am I right?

Thanks

I love Jesus and Marie as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Stop trying to draw attention away from my question. Answer my question and then I will answer yours.

[paarsurrey]

Right...
so ALL those who were close to Jesus when he actually lived are lying in their witness statements to us. The whole community of earliest Christians knew nothing about Jesus or chose to hide whatever they knew in order to mislead later generation.

Hi friends

I never said that. What I meant was that those who were most close to Jesus migrated with him to India, after when Jesus was saved his life by the Creator-God Allah YHWH on the Cross. Those who were left and were close to him did not opt to write that down; or if they did , that has not reached us, whatever the reason.

I only analyzed what we see with the "Christians"; and which is termed as NT in which we see letters of the clever Paul and his ethical philosophy invented at Rome and some gospels of the sinful disciples who never for themselves even stood with Jesus at the hour of need and deserted him in the first place. They were not eye-witnesses and might have written with some ulterior motives.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[paarsurrey]

Stop trying to draw attention away from my question. Answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Hi friend Marie

Don't be angry, please. We are just having a friendly discussion in search of truth. There is no formality here. If you want to win; no problem, I declare you the winner beforehand.

Now you may go ahead with proving that Torah- in its present form and language is secure and is the Original Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH revealed on the heart of Moses. I will be pleased to see the arguments.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[paarsurrey]

Marie wrote:

Prove to us the Quran is the word of God.

Marie wrote:

Answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Hi friends

I accede to the request of our friend Marie.

Of the great world faiths, Islam is unique in several respects. It is the only one that does not rely on any myth or mystery. It is based upon the certainty of proven and acknowledged fact. Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, peace be on him, was a historical figure, and lived his life in the full light of day. The revelation vouchsafed to him, over a period of twenty-two years, has been fully safeguarded, in the Holy Quran according to the Divine promise set out in the Quran itself:

"Surely, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and We will, most surely, safeguard it" (15:10).

This comprises several aspects:

First, the text of the revelation should have been preserved in its purity and entirety for all time. Considering that the revelation contained in the Quran was vouchsafed to the Prophet over a period of twenty-two years, first in Mecca, then in Medina; that this period was marked by persecution, disturbance, and fighting; that the Prophet himself was not literate; and that there was no sure method of preserving a record of the revelation except through human memory; it is a truly miraculous fact that the text of the Quran has been preserved intact, down to the last vowel point. Even Western scholars, who do not accept the Quran as Divine revelation, affirm that it is word for word that which Muhammad gave out to the world as Divine revelation.

Second, the language in which the revelation was sent should have continued to be in use as a living language. Classical Arabic, the language of the Quran, is today understood and used as a means of communication over much vaster areas of the earth and by many hundred times more people than was the case in the time of the Prophet.

These two factors, so essential for the safeguarding of the guidance contained in the revelation, could not have been assured by the Prophet in advance.

Third, but more was needed. Life is dynamic, and the pattern of human life is subject to constant change. Besides, history testifies that the passage of time brings about a decline in spiritual and moral values. It was inevitable, therefore, that over the centuries there should have been a falling off in the true appreciation of Divine guidance set forth in Divine revelation, as applicable to current conditions and situations. The complete safeguarding of the Divine revelation thus necessitated a constant process of spiritual revival and rebirth. In the nature of things this must also come about through revelation. It was announced by the Prophet that to meet this need God would continue to raise from among the Muslims, at the beginning of each century, those who would be inspired to revive the faith by drawing attention to the guidance contained in the Quran apposite to current conditions. History has confirmed the truth of this assurance conveyed by the Prophet.

http://www3.alislam.org/index.jsp

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[Marie]

Stop trying to draw attention away from my question. Answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Hi friend Marie

Don't be angry, please. We are just having a friendly discussion in search of truth. There is no formality here. If you want to win; no problem, I declare you the winner beforehand.

Now you may go ahead with proving that Torah- in its present form and language is secure and is the Original Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH revealed on the heart of Moses. I will be pleased to see the arguments.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Are you going to answer my question or not?

[paarsurrey]

Hi friend Marie and others

I have acceded to your request and started a new thread "Quran is the Word of God, for sure ":
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4804

In this thread one of my friends had asked me a question; and I answered .

However, you may now feel convenient and free here to prove that Torah- in its present form and language is secure and is the Original Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH revealed on the heart of Moses; and if written , who wrote it and when. I will be pleased to see the arguments.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[piscohot]

Islam is unique in several respects. It is the only one that does not rely on any myth or mystery. It is based upon the certainty of proven and acknowledged fact.

You just told a lie and did not give any proven fact, paarsurrey.

it is a truly miraculous fact that the text of the Quran has been preserved intact, down to the last vowel point. Even Western scholars, who do not accept the Quran as Divine revelation, affirm that it is word for word that which Muhammad gave out to the world as Divine revelation.

Another lie, paarsurrey.
What did 'Western' scholars based on to affrim that it was word for word?
Did they have a quran from Muhammad himself or one from the time of Muhammad?

How do you come here day after day spewing lies and crap over and over again?

Are you a robot? Braindead and merely repeating what you have been told?

[Marie]

Marie wrote:

Prove to us the Quran is the word of God.

Marie wrote:

Answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Hi friends

I accede to the request of our friend Marie.

Of the great world faiths, Islam is unique in several respects. It is the only one that does not rely on any myth or mystery. It is based upon the certainty of proven and acknowledged fact. Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, peace be on him, was a historical figure, and lived his life in the full light of day. The revelation vouchsafed to him, over a period of twenty-two years, has been fully safeguarded, in the Holy Quran according to the Divine promise set out in the Quran itself:

"Surely, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and We will, most surely, safeguard it" (15:10).

This comprises several aspects:

First, the text of the revelation should have been preserved in its purity and entirety for all time. Considering that the revelation contained in the Quran was vouchsafed to the Prophet over a period of twenty-two years, first in Mecca, then in Medina; that this period was marked by persecution, disturbance, and fighting; that the Prophet himself was not literate; and that there was no sure method of preserving a record of the revelation except through human memory; it is a truly miraculous fact that the text of the Quran has been preserved intact, down to the last vowel point. Even Western scholars, who do not accept the Quran as Divine revelation, affirm that it is word for word that which Muhammad gave out to the world as Divine revelation.

Second, the language in which the revelation was sent should have continued to be in use as a living language. Classical Arabic, the language of the Quran, is today understood and used as a means of communication over much vaster areas of the earth and by many hundred times more people than was the case in the time of the Prophet.

These two factors, so essential for the safeguarding of the guidance contained in the revelation, could not have been assured by the Prophet in advance.

Third, but more was needed. Life is dynamic, and the pattern of human life is subject to constant change. Besides, history testifies that the passage of time brings about a decline in spiritual and moral values. It was inevitable, therefore, that over the centuries there should have been a falling off in the true appreciation of Divine guidance set forth in Divine revelation, as applicable to current conditions and situations. The complete safeguarding of the Divine revelation thus necessitated a constant process of spiritual revival and rebirth. In the nature of things this must also come about through revelation. It was announced by the Prophet that to meet this need God would continue to raise from among the Muslims, at the beginning of each century, those who would be inspired to revive the faith by drawing attention to the guidance contained in the Quran apposite to current conditions. History has confirmed the truth of this assurance conveyed by the Prophet.

http://www3.alislam.org/index.jsp

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

How do you know the Quran has been preserved in it's purity and entirety for all time?

How do you know Muhammed was persecuted?

How do you know Muhammed was not literate?

How do you know Muhammed did not make up the Quran?

People do speak Arabic, but they do not speak classical Arabic of the Quran.

I will respond to your question tomorrow.

[manfred]

"Surely, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and We will, most surely, safeguard it" (15:10).

paarsurrey, you should be a comedian, you really are something.

So, your first argument is that the quran is the word of God, because it says so in the quran, which ... is the word or God...it says so in the quran... which...

are you getting dizzy yet with all that circular logic?

Let me buy you car from you. I shall send you a piece of of paper that will read "This is payment in full for everything, without doubt" When will I get the keys and document?

Can you apply the SAME logic you use every day for questions like this?

Let me help you: If the quran is the word of God, litterally, then surely it should contain to errors? Also, surely the quran, if it is the word of God, cannot contradict any previous revelation?

You already mentioned that it should be a book for all time, good. How does an entire surah that contains nothing but angry curses against Mohammed's uncle and his wife fit into that scheme?

It is the only one that does not rely on any myth or mystery.

Now, stop it, you are killing me with your silliness. Mohammed being a prophet, not a myth? Gabriel whispering revelation, not a myth? Mohammed riding over night to Jesusalem on a flying horse, and splitting the moon, not a myth? There hunderds of myths embedded in Islam...

Now, have another go, please...

[planck]

Okay, I'll agree with you. The quran is the word of God...for sure. I'll accept that.

Now, what does that mean for me. Can I beat my wife/girlfriend as is God's word in 4:34. Can I start waging war on the infidels....as is God's word in 9:29. Am I not supposed to take Christians and Jews as friends. Am I supposed to believe that the Jews are children of Apes and Pigs.....all that good stuff.

How soon can I start a jihad on the kafirs? How soon should I start transforming my great country and implement sharia law, just like Saudi Arabia?

If the quran is the word of God, then God is a terrible writer.

[paarsurrey]

Okay, I'll agree with you. The Quran is the word of God...for sure. I'll accept that.

Now, what does that mean for me? Can I beat my wife/girlfriend as is God's word in 4:34? Can I start waging war on the infidels....as is God's word in 9:29? Am I not supposed to take Christians and Jews as friends? Am I supposed to believe that the Jews are children of Apes and Pigs.....all that good stuff?

How soon can I start a jihad on the kafirs? How soon should I start transforming my great country and implement sharia law, just like Saudi Arabia?

If the Quran is the word of God, then God is a terrible writer.

Hi friend Planck

I thank you for accepting Quran as the word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. It is indeed very natural to accept that fact.

You don't have to start now doing anything mentioned by you:

1. You don’t have to beat your wife; Muhammad never did that.
2. You don’t have to wage war on the infidels. That was allowed only for a limited time due to the persecution of Muslims by the infidels. It is no more valid in the present scenario as prophesized by Muhammad himself. The Promised Messiah 1835-1908- Imam Mahdi has abolished such killings and explained the concept of Jihad from Quran.
3. One cannot have any girlfriends to have sex with; Jesus never had any girlfriends, why should the others do such things. One should be sincere with the girls, and if one wants, one could marry anyone of them.
4. You can have surely good Jews and good Christians as your friends; only at the time of war that was prohibited and cautioned. Please read #2 above.
5. Jews and Christians of our times are human beings; must be respected and loved as anyone else. They are not monkeys or pigs; who told you that?
6. You can read Quran and after understanding its logical and reasonable arguments and with your good character; you could convince others for the truth of Quran/Islam/Muhammad; that is the concept of Jihad.
7. There is no Sharia Law named in Quran; that might be the concept of Saudi Arabia, only. Saudi Arabia do not represent Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

Quran is a Word from the Merciful and Beneficent Creator – God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

[yeezevee]

let me go back ward on that above post of paarsurrey

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

we too love Jesus and Mary sand we also love you dear paarsurrey., we only would like some common sense in to your way of Islamic thinking..

7. There is no Sharia Law named in Quran; that might be the concept of Saudi Arabia, only. Saudi Arabia do not represent Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

read the book of By Tarek Fatah "Chasing a mirage: the tragic illusion of an Islamic state"

ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَاكَ عَلَىٰ شَرِيعَةٍ مِنَ الْأَمْرِ فَاتَّبِعْهَا وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ And find out The word "sharia" Quran.. Read Quran.

Then We have made you upon a course in the affair, so follow it, and do not follow the desires of those who do not know.

Quran is a Word from the Merciful and Beneficent Creator – God Allah YHWH.

Sorry quit a bit of Quran is COPY/PASTED BOOK from other religions of that time along with rubbish from Muhammad's words and deeds. And this is done after the death of Mr. Muhammad in the Calipha times. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN QURAN that is worth for mankind. Whatever few good verses are there in it they were already there in every religion that was there before the birth of islam and Muhammad.

6. You can read Quran and after understanding its logical and reasonable arguments and with your good character; you could convince others for the truth of Quran/Islam/Muhammad; that is the concept of Jihad.

yes.. we are doing out Jihad and you do yours.. and you too need to read Quran.

4. You can have surely good Jews and good Christians as your friends; only at the time of war that was prohibited and cautioned. Please read #2 above.
5. Jews and Christians of our times are human beings; must be respected and loved as anyone else. They are not monkeys or pigs; who told you that?

Muhammad following Muslim ROGUES FORCE wars on those and then call people monkeys or pigs in the name of Allah., Off course we can all have friends but that is as long as ISLAM doesn't drive our brains & actions.



watch that little girl at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8 and that is from News of Muslim Land..

2. You don’t have to wage war on the infidels. That was allowed only for a limited time due to the persecution of Muslims by the infidels. It is no more valid in the present scenario as prophesized by Muhammad himself. The Promised Messiah 1835-1908- Imam Mahdi has abolished such killings and explained the concept of Jihad from Quran.

3. One cannot have any girlfriends to have sex with; Jesus never had any girlfriends, why should the others do such things. One should be sincere with the girls, and if one wants, one could marry anyone of them.

Look at that twist., Hiding behind Jesus Christ when it comes to criminal activities of Muhammad., Mr. PBUH., How many wives..m 13 wives in 13 years .. another 13 concubines.. right hand posseses after the death of his first wife Khadija., that too this sex obsessed dirty old man had children to take care and precah allegedly the words from Allah/God... what a conman..

How about that Promised Messaiah.. do you know anything about his life dear paarsurrey ., Did you read Ahmed Bhagat??

Well I am sorry to say that you use very little common sense and more of that silly belief..

with best regards
yeezevee