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The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:57 am
by Centaur
The quran demand that followers face mecca during prayers does not make sense. however it makes sense if the earth is flat. and the quran believe that the earth is flat as has been mentioned many times in the quran. this whole ideology of islam is full of error and lies. muslims should know that they are worshipping the words of a paedophile criminal. . you cannot trust a criminal. allah is false. it is satan in disguise.


Q. 2:22

WHO made the earth a bed for you, and the heaven a roof, and caused water to come down from the clouds and therewith brought forth fruits for your sustenance; so do not set up equals to ALLAH, while you know. Sher Ali

ibn Kathir Commentary:

... who has made the earth AS FLAT and comfortable as a bed and placed upon it mountains standing firm... (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1), Surah Al-Fatihah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa’i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1998 second edition], pp. 79-80)

The online version reads:

He made the earth a resting place for them, just like the bed, STABLE with the firm mountains ...

And the sky as a canopy meaning, ‘a ceiling’ ...
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1216



Q. 13:3

And He it is who hath outstretched the earth, and placed on it the firm mountains, and rivers: and of every fruit He hath placed on it two kinds: He causeth the night to enshroud the day. Verily in this are signs for those who reflect. Rodwell


Commentary:

Allah mentions His perfect ability and infinite authority, since it is He Who has raised the heavens without pillars by His permission and order. He, by His leave, order and power, has elevated the heavens high above the earth, distant and far away from reach. The heaven nearest to the present world encompasses the earth from all directions, and is also high above it from every direction. The distance between the first heaven and the earth is five hundred years from every direction, and its thickness is also five hundred years. The second heaven surrounds the first heaven from every direction, encompassing everything that the latter carries, with a thickness also of five hundred years and a distance between them of five hundred years. The same is also true about the third, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth and the seventh heavens...

without any pillars that you can see. meaning, ‘there are pillars, but you cannot see them,’ according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, and several other scholars. Iyas bin Mu`awiyah said, "The heaven is like a dome over the earth," meaning, without pillars.

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=13&tid=25399


Q. 15:19

And the earth have WE spread out, and set therein firm mountains and cause every thing to grow therein in proper proportion. Sher Ali

We are told in the Tafsir al-Jalalayn that:

And the earth We have stretched it out, SPREAD IT FLAT, and cast therein firm mountains, lest it should sway beneath its inhabitants, and caused to grow therein every kind of balanced thing, [every kind of thing] known and determined. (Source; capital and underline emphasis ours)

Re: Flat Earth

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:09 am
by Centaur
Q. 16:15

And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest IT [the earth] should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves; Y. Ali

Commentary:

... Then Allah mentions the earth and how He placed in it mountains standing firm, which make it stable and keep it from shaking in such a manner that the creatures dwelling on it would not be able to live. Hence Allah says ...

And the mountains He has fixed firmly
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=16&tid=27406


Q. 20:53

[since he is the One] Who has laid out the earth as a carpet for you and has traced highways on it for you, and sent down water from the sky, We have brought forth every sort of plant with it, of various types. T.B. Irving

Q. 22:65

Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven FROM FALLING ON THE EARTH except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men. Shakir

Commentary:

He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His leave.> If He willed, He could give the sky permission to fall on the earth, and whoever is in it would be killed, but by His kindness, mercy and power, He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth, except by His leave

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=22&tid=34516

Note: Certainly it is God, the Creator who put everything in place to function well. And He is also the sustainer who upholds the continuing existence of the world. However, the above formulation presupposes that the sky above us is something heavy and hard which could cause serious damage, even kill people, if it were to fall down. That certainly is scientific nonsense!

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:01 pm
by joseph
-

This is Cuntaur's own wishful thinking and selective interpretation.

Scientists dont say about the Koran what he is saying.

Because Koran is the most scientific book on Earth.


This is just " desperate Atheists clutching at straws" thread.

Poor Centaur.

Try again, and name some scientists to back yourself up.

:roflmao:

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:31 pm
by Centaur
when since ibn kathir did selective interpretations josph?? sorry joseph I forgot to back it up by islamic science.Enjoy!!

This is a video of a serious debate between an Iraqi “Researcher on Astronomy” and a physicist on Iraqi television. The astronomy guy is trying to convince the physicist that the world is flat and that the sun is smaller than the earth.




A BBC news website article from August 2008 showed there are still people who firmly believe that the earth is flat, despite all the evidence which points to it being spherical.[79] In a 2009 BBC interview, Mohammed Yusuf, leader of the militant Islamic group Boko Haram, stated that the belief that the world is a sphere is contrary to Islam and should be rejected, along with "Darwinism" and the theory that rain comes from water evaporated by the sun
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8172270.stm

Ibn Baz (Abd-al-Aziz ibn Abd-Allah ibn Baaz), the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, was a traditionally educated cleric who suffered from blindness. In 1993, he was reported to have issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, declaring, "The Earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment."[81] While the edict reportedly caused embarrassment for many Saudis, Ibn Baz issued a statement maintaining the earth was spherical but expansive enough to be flat and saying that he only denied the Earth's rotation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:39 pm
by Mr Preet
joseph wrote:-

This is Cuntaur's own wishful thinking and selective interpretation.

Scientists dont say about the Koran what he is saying.

Because Koran is the most scientific book on Earth.


This is just another clutching at straw thread by an Atheist.

Poor Centaur.

Try again, and name some scientists to back yourself up.

:roflmao:


"..... most scientific book on earth" :lotpot: ...... oh dear!! :D

It is just a book of containing some really stupid observations and stupid 'copy-pasting' from earlier sources. For instance when the 20%Profiteer saw bees among flowers and trees he wrote " ..... bees eat fruits". When he saw rain clouds he wrote "the water-cycle" which muslims are truly proud of to this day. Come on Joseph, even the wilderbeasts and zebras and donkeys and monkeys knows that looming dark clouds means rain and rains means life.... surely Allah can do better than that!

BTW even if the sciences are true it does not mean that the sources is divine because even Satan knows facts and figures!

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:18 pm
by joseph
-

Have you noticed how Centaur avoided that question thrown at him. :)

He did not give name of one scientists, whether muslim or non-muslim, who says that Earth is flat, or claims that Koran says Earth is flat.

Instead, Centaur gave us a video of a unknown dumb Iraqi guy taken off the street.

He also refered to the leader of a terrorist organisartion to prove Koran says Earth of flat !! :lotpot:

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:35 pm
by piscohot
joseph wrote:-

Have you noticed how Centaur avoided that question thrown at him. :)

He did not give name of one scientists, whether muslim or non-muslim, who says that Earth is flat, or claims that Koran says Earth is flat.

Instead, Centaur gave us a video of a unknown dumb Iraqi guy taken off the street.

He also refered to the leader of a terrorist organisartion to prove Koran says Earth of flat !! :lotpot:


since we all know that the earth is round, the instructions to face Mecca when praying does not make sense for many muslims living in different parts of the world. does it?

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:10 pm
by Centaur
Joseph the problem is that we dont get any scientist who is interested in Islamic science.Its a fact that all muslims and even non muslims believed that earth was flat until modern science proved it otherwise.Flat earth was a common knowledge that made a lot of commonsense in 7th century arabia.I cant see any muslim scholar finding round earth then.

In islamic world view earth is not only flat but stationary/fixed , while sun and moon swimming (Iarabic-yeshbahoon )in the sky.Please show a single verse from koran which means earth is also swimming/floating/moving/roaming/orbiting.


Now you should be able to imagine Mohammeds universe

1.Earth -carpet fixed by mountains, so it soes not shake
2.Sky-canopy
In english canopy means
( A protective rooflike covering, often of canvas, mounted on a frame over a walkway or door)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/canopy
3.stars -Lamps for the spead out carpet
4.sun,moon-two things floating over the fixed carpet,but one cannot catch the other one

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:30 pm
by joseph
Centaur wrote:
Joseph the problem is that we dont get any scientist who is interested in Islamic science.



Ok.

So, you cannot name any scientist who contradicts what Koran says about the Earth.

Thats fine.

Thank you for admitting it.

This is a scientific issue and you cannot back your claims by naming one scientist.

Now that we have that clear, you may continue to preach your whim that Koran claims Earth is flat.

:)

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:50 pm
by Centaur
joseph, if a scientist is not interested in spaghetti monster ,it does not mean spaghetti monster exists.




Sura Al-Kahf (18:47)

And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind.

Sura Taha (20:53)

Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation.

Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:10)

Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way.

Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:38)

Till, when (such a one) comes to Us, he says [to his Qarîn (Satan / devil companion)] "Would that between me and you were the distance of the two easts (or the east and west)" a worst (type of) companion (indeed)!

Sura An-Naba (78:6)

Have We not made the earth as a bed,

Sura An-Naziat (79:30)

And after that He spread the earth;



These verses would only be applicable to a flat earth belief


Sura An-Naml (27:61)

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilâh (god) with Allâh? Nay, but most of them know not.

Sura Al-Kahf (18:86)

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allâh) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."

Sura Al-Kahf (18:90)

Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allâh) had provided no shelter against the sun.

Sura Yasin (36:38)

And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

Sura Yasin (36:40)

It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:56 pm
by Centaur
piscohot wrote:
joseph wrote:-

Have you noticed how Centaur avoided that question thrown at him. :)

He did not give name of one scientists, whether muslim or non-muslim, who says that Earth is flat, or claims that Koran says Earth is flat.

Instead, Centaur gave us a video of a unknown dumb Iraqi guy taken off the street.

He also refered to the leader of a terrorist organisartion to prove Koran says Earth of flat !! :lotpot:


since we all know that the earth is round, the instructions to face Mecca when praying does not make sense for many muslims living in different parts of the world. does it?

Exactly

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:04 pm
by junkmaster
joseph wrote:
Centaur wrote:
Joseph the problem is that we dont get any scientist who is interested in Islamic science.



Ok.

So, you cannot name any scientist who contradicts what Koran says about the Earth.

Thats fine.

Thank you for admitting it.

This is a scientific issue and you cannot back your claims by naming one scientist.

Now that we have that clear, you may continue to preach your whim that Koran claims Earth is flat.

:)




You only need a single verse of the Koran(18.86) to prove it preaches flat earth cosmology and that has already been pointed out to you above along with extra evidence. The Koran is full of ignorance and hate and all it has brought humanity is misery and despair. If you disagree, I suggest you move to a Muslim country.

jm

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:22 pm
by Islamic_Science2
Centaur wrote:Its a fact that all muslims and even non muslims believed that earth was flat until modern science proved it otherwise.


Centaur, you are wrong. It was pre-Islamic Science that proved that the earth is spherical centuries before Islam. A good example would be pyramid texts of ancient Egypt with calculations of the ratio of the polar and equatorial radii, indicating knowledge of a spherical earth with flattening on at least the north pole.

Another discovery was made in Alexandria by Eratosthenes. 3rd century BC.


How About so called Muslims who believed that the earth is spherical?

Caliph al-Ma'mun (830 AD) commissioned a group of astronomers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to al-Raqqah, in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the distance between them to be 66⅔ Arabic miles (131 km) and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24000 Arabic miles (47,000 km), a value which differs from modern estimates by about 18.6%.[60][61]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Medieval_Islamic_world

Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī (973-1048) was agnostic while leaning toward Shia Islam.

He solved a complex geodesic equation in order to accurately compute the Earth's circumference, which was close to modern values of the Earth's circumference.[63][64] His estimate of 6,339.9 kilometres (3,939.4 mi) for the Earth radius was only 16.8 km (10.4 mi) less than the modern value of 6,356.7 km (3,949.9 mi).


Ibn Taymiyah believed that the earth is spherical.

Muslim mathematicians developed spherical trigonometry which was used in these calculations.[69] Ibn Khaldun (d. 1406), in his Muqaddimah, also identified the world as spherical.


However Islamic Science turned backward with a return to the Qur'an. It was Suyuti (d.1505) who believed that the earth is flat. Suyuti is one of the Qur'an commentators known as Al Jalalayn, the twin Jalals. In the tafsir of Al Jalalayn it is clearly written that the earth is flat and not a sphere as the astronomers have it.

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:49 pm
by Centaur
I was speaking of common people in general.Greeks also believed Earth was sperical.It was there as a concept but not widly believed by people.

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:54 pm
by Centaur
Found rather ineteresting stuff on the net.
some new translators including joker naik claims earth is ostrich egg shaped as per Koran 79:30

as a rebuttal I found an article by a muslim himself

Qur'aan does not mention the shape of earth.egg-shaped thing is a BIG lie invented by Dajjal Rashad Khalifa, whoever support egg-shaped thing is a big Liar.
________

Question: My question is about the Arabic word dahâ, which according to the translations I have read means "to spread out" or "a vast expanse".

A prominent caller to Islaam has recently suggested the meaning "egg" or "ostrich egg" for the same word. He says that the Qur'aan teaches us the Earth is egg-shaped and goes further to say that this claim is supported by science.

Is there a possibility that this word dahâ could mean "egg" or "shaped like an egg" based on its root? I would very much appreciate a response, as this caller to Islaam is someone whom we regularly invite to our country to speak, and many have accepted Islaam at his hands. Recently, he has been under attack by for translating the Arabic word dahâ to mean "egg-shaped".

Also, please could you explain if there is any possibility that the word dahâ could mean "egg-shaped" or something similar?
.................................

Answered by the Scientific Research Committee -

The word in question is the verb (dahâ). This verb comes from the tri-literal root d-h-w, and it appears in the Qur’aan in relation to the Earth in the following verse: “And the Earth, after that, He spread out (dahâhâ).” [Soorah al-Naazi`at: 30]

This word conveys one concept in the Arabic language: that of “spreading, leveling, flattening, and smoothing out”. Allaah mentions this to us in the verse to show us something of his providence to us. He explains what he means by stretching the Earth out and smoothing it out in the following verses: “He brought forth from it its water and its pasturage, and He made the mountains firmly fixed.” [Soorah al-Naazi`at : 31-32]

Therefore, Allaah smoothed out the Earth for us by making it a stable and suitable place for habitation, providing its inhabitants with water, pasture, and keeping its mountains firmly-fixed.

With respect to this word’s association with eggs, it is as follows:

Due to the fact that the word conveys the meaning of “spreading, leveling, flattening, and smoothing out”, the Arabs named the place where an ostrich incubates and hatches its egg an "udhiyy". This is a hollow pit in the ground around 30 to 60 centimeters deep. The Arabic word for this shallow depression is derived from the triliteral root d-h-w – the same etymological root as the verb dahâ. The reason for this is that the ostrich spreads out and flattens this area with its legs before laying its egg in it. The ostrich uses neither a nest nor a burrow for its eggs.

From this, we must understand that the word is not used for the egg itself but rather for the flattened depression where the ostrich deposits its egg.

Whoever uses the word to refer to the egg or to the shape of the egg is being inexact in his linguistic usage. However, without doubt we can say that such an error does not detract from the person’s reputation or scholarship as a whole, and it does not warrant a harsh reprimand.

In any case, verse 30 of Soorah al-Naazi`at – that mentions the verb dahâ in reference to the Earth – is not discussing the shape of the Earth at all. It cannot be used as proof that the Earth is flat or round or egg-shaped. The verse is silent on the matter. And Allaah knows best.

The exact shape of the Earth is best known from empirical observations, and not from seeking to deduce its exact shape from the Qur’aan.

The Earth is practically a perfect sphere.

Yes, the Earth is ever so slightly flattened at the poles, due to its rotation, technically making it an approximate "oblate spheroid", a rounded shape with a sight bulge at the equator.

However, the difference made by the bulge is minute. The diameter at the equator is only 42.72 kilometers greater than the diameter at the poles. Considering that the average diameter of the Earth is about 12,742 km, the difference is infinitesimal – nothing at all like the shape of an ostrich egg, which is visibly an oval. The average ostrich egg is 15 cm long and 13 cm wide.

Therefore, the claim that the Earth is shaped like an ostrich egg is not only unfounded scripturally, it is scientifically inaccurate.

We should also take this occasion to mention that the Earth is almost perfectly smooth. Its near-perfect smoothness is not compromised by the contours of its crust. The highest mountains and deepest trenches of the crust are insignificant compared to the vastness of the Earth's surface.

To get an idea of how insignificant the mountains and trenches are when compared to the Earth's surface, we can compare the smoothness of the Earth to that of a billiard ball. A billiard ball must be very smooth and regular. The tolerance allowed for a billiard ball is only 0.22%. (Tolerance, in engineering, refers to the permissible limit of variation in a dimension of a manufactured object.) The Earth, by comparison, has a tolerance of about one part in 584, or 0.17%. This means the Earth is much more perfectly smooth than what is allowed for a billiard ball.


And Allaah knows best.
____________________

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (Rahimahullaah ) - Is the Earth round or flat? :- http://fatwa-online.com/fataawa/miscella


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090103002547AAGuIli

vow muslims twisting their own hot material, who said islam is not reformable!!!

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:06 am
by piscohot
joseph wrote:So, you cannot name any scientist who contradicts what Koran says about the Earth.


And naming a scientist is more important that the fact the you cannot 'face' Mecca (no matter which direction you look) in many parts of the world?

This is how you should pray in order to face Mecca if you are on the exact opposite side of the earth to Mecca:

Image

Also, hiding your head in the sand and pretending you don't see the mistakes in the quran work just as well, I guess.

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:45 pm
by Centaur
piscohot wrote:
joseph wrote:So, you cannot name any scientist who contradicts what Koran says about the Earth.


And naming a scientist is more important that the fact the you cannot 'face' Mecca (no matter which direction you look) in many parts of the world?

This is how you should pray in order to face Mecca if you are on the exact opposite side of the earth to Mecca:

Image

Also, hiding your head in the sand and pretending you don't see the mistakes in the quran work just as well, I guess.


After all there is some reason for Zakir Naik to say Earth is ostrich egg shaped
:roflmao:

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:56 pm
by Centaur

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:51 am
by paarsurrey
Centaur wrote:the earth is flat as has been mentioned many times in the quran.


Hi friend Centaur

Please quote the text of the verse of Quran where it is mentioned that earth is flat. Please do not forget to mention the short context which usually consists of five preceding and five following verses.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: The Flat Earth and Islam

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:04 am
by Centaur
dear paar
would you mind explaining the context in which Allah made the earth flat.See I have already provided you more than enough verses from forgetfull allh in your Koran repeatedly reminding us He made the earth flat