By SAM.

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
antineoETC
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By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

For an indefinite time
So it applies to Jews and Christians not yet born?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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SAM
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By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:13 pm
For an indefinite time
So it applies to Jews and Christians not yet born?
Unborn babies are Muslims.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Centaur
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Re: By SAM.

Post by Centaur »

SAM wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:53 pm
antineoETC wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:15 pm
Sam re the Quranic quote at the bottom of your posts. Does this refer to the Jews and Christians Muhammad encountered at the time these words were first uttered, or all Jews and Christians for all time?

For an indefinite time especially Judeo Christians are those who want Muslims to follow Western values, not the religion of Jesus and Moses.
Mohammeds Allah is not the biblical God.its like me saying mohammed worshiped Zeus and Zeus is the only one God so everyone must follow zeus , the God of mo hammed and Ahamed. :yummy:
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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

Centaur wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:40 pm
SAM wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:53 pm
antineoETC wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:15 pm
Sam re the Quranic quote at the bottom of your posts. Does this refer to the Jews and Christians Muhammad encountered at the time these words were first uttered, or all Jews and Christians for all time?

For an indefinite time especially Judeo Christians are those who want Muslims to follow Western values, not the religion of Jesus and Moses.
Mohammeds Allah is not the biblical God.its like me saying mohammed worshiped Zeus and Zeus is the only one God so everyone must follow zeus , the God of mo hammed and Ahamed. :yummy:
You still owe me an answer, which verse from the New Testament has Muhammad (or Allah) ever confirmed the authenticity and preservation of the Bible?

Did Muhammad or Allah confirmed that Jesus died on the cross, resurrected and then ascended to heaven.
Did Muhammad or Allah confirmed that Jesus is the son of God.
Did Muhammad or Allah confirmed the Trinity
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

antineoETC
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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:]Unborn babies are Muslims.
Careful referencing hadith, the authenticity of which you will be in no position to cast doubt on when rather less inoccuous ones are highlighted (eg Muhammad's alleged 'relationship' with 9 year old Ayesha). That said, many of those supposedly yet-to-be-born ' muslims' will supposedly be turned into kafirs by their Jewish and Christian parents. Does the Qur'an passage under discussion apply to these unborn persons?

Sorry Ariel, but Sam is already off Topic. You might want to split this off onto a separate thread.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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SAM
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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:21 pm
Does the Qur'an passage under discussion apply to these unborn persons?
In the Quran says, "And if all the trees on the earth were pens and the sea (were ink wherewith to write), with seven seas behind it to add to its (supply), yet the Words of Allah would not be exhausted. Verily, Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

Not everything you want to know about the religion of Allah (Islam), you can easily understand it.

You have to learn what you do not know, not what you already know
Sorry Ariel, but Sam is already off Topic. You might want to split this off onto a separate thread.
Actually manfred OFF TOPIC is not me. Any topic that has nothing to do with Islam, he really wants to connect and relate to it
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Re: By SAM.

Post by Ariel »

SAM wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:04 pm
Actually manfred OFF TOPIC is not me. Any topic that has nothing to do with Islam, he really wants to connect and relate to it
Oke SAM. Then you are both off topic.

If this is going to happen more, I am going to fire Manfred... :heh:
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but the heart of the fool to the left.

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Re: By SAM.

Post by manfred »

SAM wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:08 pm
Unborn babies are Muslims.
So when they are born, or shortly afterwards, those of non-Muslim parents change their religion. And what did Mohammed say about people who do that? What did he say that should happen to them?
You still owe me an answer, which verse from the New Testament has Muhammad (or Allah) ever confirmed the authenticity and preservation of the Bible?
We already had this game a dozen times. Mohammed "confirmed" ALL of the Torah and the gospel. In addition if such a verse were found in the text, what difference would it make?
Did Muhammad or Allah confirmed that Jesus died on the cross, resurrected and then ascended to heaven.
Did Muhammad or Allah confirmed that Jesus is the son of God.
Did Muhammad or Allah confirmed the Trinity
This is grammatically incorrect. "Did.... confirm". No "-ed" because the past tense is already in the "did".

Now, when you first "confirm" a text in its entirety, and then "correct" it, all you do is prove that you are ignorant. So Mohammed was ignorant. Proof: the Qur'an.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:You have to learn what you do not know, not what you already know
I am asking YOU to teach me SAM. There are people not yet born who in your mind will have their inherent pristine Islam corrupted into belief in the holy trinity, the divinity and sonhood of Christ, his crucifixion and other forms of shirk and kufr. What I want to know is does the Qur'an passage at the base of your posts apply to these yet-to-be-born 'corrupted' Jews and Christians?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:19 pm
SAM wrote:You have to learn what you do not know, not what you already know
I am asking YOU to teach me SAM. There are people not yet born who in your mind will have their inherent pristine Islam corrupted into belief in the holy trinity, the divinity and sonhood of Christ, his crucifixion and other forms of shirk and kufr.
What did you know while you were still in your mother's womb?
What I want to know is does the Qur'an passage at the base of your posts apply to these yet-to-be-born 'corrupted' Jews and Christians?
After the babies are born, they remain Muslim until they follow and believe in the religious beliefs of their parents.

Quran 2:120, Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

antineoETC
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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

.
SAM wrote:What did you know while you were still in your mother's womb?
How to suck my thumb. What of it?
After the babies are born, they remain Muslim until they follow and believe in the religious beliefs of their parents.
That is what you believe as already mentioned above. Right, supposing a pair of kafirs in your acquaintance have a baby tomorrow. Over the next few years they inculcate their baby with a belief in the holy trinity, divinity and sonhood of the Messiah and in his crucifixion. The child grows into adulthood with a deep-seated belief in these doctrines - which makes him a kafir according to the Qur'an. One day you encounter him in the street and know him for the Christian kafir that he allegedly is. Would you automatically assume, as per Sura 2.120, that he willl never be satisfied with you unless you follow his form of religion?

This requires a simple yes or no from you.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:08 am

How to suck my thumb. What of it?
Dont guess if you do not know.

That is what you believe as already mentioned above. Right, supposing a pair of kafirs in your acquaintance have a baby tomorrow. Over the next few years they inculcate their baby with a belief in the holy trinity, divinity and sonhood of the Messiah and in his crucifixion. The child grows into adulthood with a deep-seated belief in these doctrines - which makes him a kafir according to the Qur'an. One day you encounter him in the street and know him for the Christian kafir that he allegedly is. Would you automatically assume, as per Sura 2.120, that he willl never be satisfied with you unless you follow his form of religion?

This requires a simple yes or no from you.
Quran 2:120, ...."Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee,.."

The answer is no. If he persists then he needs to prove the truth of Christianity.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:The answer is no.
A nice straight answer that our friend Mughal can learn from. It logically follows from your response that the Qur'an passage at the base of your posts does NOT apply to all Christian/jewish kafirs either in the present day or those yet to allegedly be born Muslims and subsequently turned into kafirs by their Christian/Jewish kafir parents. It is only SOME of "the [kafir] Jews and Christians" who "will never be happy with you until you accept their religion". How do you identify members of this specific group?
If he persists then he needs to prove the truth of Christianity.
If he persists in what? You just spotted him in the street and he waved at you. I haven't said he's been proselytising you.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:46 pm
A nice straight answer that our friend Mughal can learn from.
Mughal has his own way of arguing and explaining, don’t equate with me.
It logically follows from your response that the Qur'an passage at the base of your posts does NOT apply to all Christian/jewish kafirs either in the present day or those yet to allegedly be born Muslims and subsequently turned into kafirs by their Christian/Jewish kafir parents. It is only SOME of "the [kafir] Jews and Christians" who "will never be happy with you until you accept their religion". How do you identify members of this specific group?
In the time of Muhammad they were the People of the Book. In the Middle Ages they were called Churches, Bishops, POPE, Rabbis etc. In this modern age they are referred to as missionaries, evangelists, etc.

They all failed to destroy Islam. But today the missionaries, preachers and evangelists are trying again by means of the degradation of Allah, Muhammad and the Quran. Again they failed as well. :lol:
If he persists in what? You just spotted him in the street and he waved at you. I haven't said he's been proselytising you.
Usually someone who is deep rooted in the doctrines of the trinity, divinity, and sonship of the holy Messiah and crucifixion will not remain silent, they will surely do something to spread their understanding.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:In the time of Muhammad they were the People of the Book
You mean the term °People of the Book" only applies to people alive at the time of Muhammad?
But today the missionaries, preachers and evangelists are trying again by means of the degradation of Allah, Muhammad and the Quran
So "the Jews and Christians" who "will not be satisfied until you follow their religion" only refers to Jews and Christians who are actively trying to convert Muslims, "degrade Muhammad" etc? It doesn't apply to the vast majority of Jews and Christians who aren't doing this. Is that correct?
Usually someone who is deep rooted in the doctrines of the trinity, divinity, and sonship of the holy Messiah and crucifixion will not remain silent, they will surely do something to spread their understanding.
In my experience only a tiny number of Christians go out on the streets actively preaching and proselytising and those that do aren't particularly directing their efforts at Muslims but at anybody walking past. It is only Jehovah's witnesses that go banging on people's doors and again do not particularly target Muslims.

How many times have you had a Jew or a Christian approach you and attempt to convert you to their creed?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:55 pm

So "the Jews and Christians" who "will not be satisfied until you follow their religion" only refers to Jews and Christians who are actively trying to convert Muslims, "degrade Muhammad" etc? It doesn't apply to the vast majority of Jews and Christians who aren't doing this. Is that correct?
The vast majority Christians do not care about the Bible and Christianity. They are more focused on their daily lives. And the Jews were not interested in spreading Judaism to the gentiles.
In my experience only a tiny number of Christians go out on the streets actively preaching and proselytising and those that do aren't particularly directing their efforts at Muslims but at anybody walking past. It is only Jehovah's witnesses that go banging on people's doors and again do not particularly target Muslims.

How many times have you had a Jew or a Christian approach you and attempt to convert you to their creed?
I've been visited by missionaries and even pastors after they found out that my friends and I are Muslim, they suddenly looked disappointed. Then they said, the most difficult to influence Christianity are Muslims.

As for the Jews if they know I am a Muslim, they (Jewish girls) are quite happy to hang out and make out. The Jewish man looked more arrogant and conceited.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

antineoETC
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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote: The vast majority of Christians do not care about the Bible and Christianity.
Therefore "the Christians" referred to in your quranic tag line refers to a tiny minority of Christians. Yes?
And the Jews were not interested in spreading Judaism to the gentiles.
What you have written here appears to contradict your Quranic tag line that "the Jews" will never be satisfied until the Muslims adopt the Jews' religion. If the Jews were never interested in spreading Judaism to the gentiles then they would not give a flying fig if the Muslims didn't adopt their religion.
I've been visited by missionaries and even pastors after they found out that my friends and I are Muslim, they suddenly looked disappointed. Then they said, the most difficult to influence Christianity are Muslims.
And did they persist in seeking to convert you when their efforts proved vain? Or did they give up at some point?
As for the Jews if they know I am a Muslim, they (Jewish girls) are quite happy to hang out and make out.
Assuming that "make out" refers to some degree of sexual activity, do you marry these Jewish girls beforehand?
The Jewish man looked more arrogant and conceited.
Is this a single Jewish man you encountered at some point or is it your general experience with Jewish men?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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Re: By SAM.

Post by Hombre »

When you meet those Jewish girls - do you reveal to them your antisemitic fervor?. I am sure not, because you know very well - once you told them - they wouldn't let you near them & kick your rear-end with a 2m pole.

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Re: By SAM.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:28 pm
Therefore "the Christians" referred to in your quranic tag line refers to a tiny minority of Christians. Yes?
It aims for Church Missionaries who are still actively influencing humankind in the world to embrace Christianity.
What you have written here appears to contradict your Quranic tag line that "the Jews" will never be satisfied until the Muslims adopt the Jews' religion. If the Jews were never interested in spreading Judaism to the gentiles then they would not give a flying fig if the Muslims didn't adopt their religion.
Quran 2:120, Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
The Quran does not say conversion to their religion

And today you see what kind form of life they want the people of the world to follow their western way. Prohibit Islamic clothing - niqab, veils, hijab, headscarf, etc. for Muslim women where they would prefer to see their mother, sister, daughter naked or topless on the beach. And also prohibits beards for Muslim men.
And did they persist in seeking to convert you when their efforts proved vain? Or did they give up at some point?
After they finished talking about Christianity, the Trinity, etc. We told them we were Muslims so we rejected the Trinity and Jesus crucified. To avoid their disappointment, we followed them to church to please them.
Assuming that "make out" refers to some degree of sexual activity, do you marry these Jewish girls beforehand?
Let me ask you, after Eve was created, did Adam just stare at her. Whereas they were both completely naked.

They proudly identify themselves as Jews without being asked. I believe they are happier and more comfortable with Muslims than mingling with white infidels. As you know, most white Gentiles are anti-Semitic...
Is this a single Jewish man you encountered at some point or is it your general experience with Jewish men?
There are also other Jewish men who give greetings .. salam alaikum after they find out that I am Muslim.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

antineoETC
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Re: By SAM.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:It aims for Church Missionaries who are still actively influencing humankind in the world to embrace Christianity.
Fine. So would you say these missionaries are striving after corruption in the earth and hindering men from the way of Allah?
And today you see what kind form of life they want the people of the world to follow their western way.
Christian missionaries simply want people to follow Christianity surely. I personally don't believe in the central tenets of Christianity. I agree with the Jews that their Messiah has not yet come (but disagree with them that he's ever going to come). I also don't believe that anybody was born of a virgin during the Roman Empire. The most plausible story about Jesus is that he was crucified. That your Qur'an says he wasn't is only reason to believe he wasn't if you believe the Qur'an was sent down from heaven - which I don't. Looking at things dispasionately I see that Christians were worshipping Jesus centuries before Islam claimed him as its prophet. Jesus therefore rightly belongs to Christians and not to Muslims who have stolen him (convince me that Muhammad was a prophet and I'll change my view on this, but I'll require more than the Qur'an's say-so).
Prohibit Islamic clothing - niqab, veils, hijab, headscarf, etc

Polls do seem to suggest that most western non-Muslims would ban niqab and veils. But why do you call them "ISLAMIC" clothing when they are not stipulated in the Qur'an and are therefore an unIslamic innovation? I personally would ban the ordinary hijab in our countries to protect the minority of Muslim women forced by their families to wear it against their will. Unfortunately this would be impossible to enforce and would allow Muslims to engage in their favourite sport of playing the victim.
They would prefer to see their mother, sister, daughter naked or topless on the beach.
I doubt that your average Christian missionary would be happy to see their moms and daughters displaying their breasts on a beach. However, you may be right that given the insane alternative of them roasting in a burqa they would choose the more sensible option.
And also prohibits beards for Muslim men.
What evidence do you have that anyone wants to prohibit Muslims from growing beards? I see plenty of Jews and other non-Muslims with beards.A ban on beards that specifically tarvgets Muslims would be impossible to enforce. Anyway what's so Islamic about beards? There is a single reference to beards in the Qur'an and zero commands by Allah to grow one.
Let me ask you, after Eve was created, did Adam just stare at her. Whereas they were both completely naked.
Please answer my question of whether you married Jewish girls before "making out" with them.
As you know, most white Gentiles are anti-Semitic...
I don't know that at all. I do know that YOU. are anti-Semitic because you believe in a book that calls Jewish kafirs (as distinct from the miniscule number of Jewish converts to Islam) "the worst of created beings".
There are also other Jewish men who give greetings .. salam alaikum after they find out that I am Muslim.
Do you ever INITIATE this greeting with Jews or other kafirs?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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