Where have the muslims gone?

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sum
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Where have the muslims gone?

Post by sum »

For the last few days there has been no muslim input to the Forum. My own view is that they have been defeated in their defence of Islam, Koran and Muhammad. Years ago there were plenty of muslims in the Forum but they have faded away. If they were winning the debates they would certainly have stayed and followed the Koranic guidance of "...not suing for peace while having the upper hand".

In my view Islam can not be defended on the grounds of science, facts, equality of mankind or even common sense etc and this is why muslims are leaving the Forum. I think that they hope that the Forum runs out of steam and in effect closes down in order to protect their obviously false ideology.

sum

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Ariel
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Ariel »

The same happened at the Dutch forum. I have not seen a muslim here for a long time. Sometimes, very rarely, one appears , and then he dumps some swear words at the forum, and tells us we are all stupid, because Islam is love, and we should not mock Mohammed ( pbuh) and gone the muslim is, never to return.

I konw that at Islamic forums, they warn Muslims not to visit our site.

There was a time that Muslims told us that we, members of our forum, strengthen their beleaves. And when we told them that they could send their brother and sisters here, so that we could strengthen their beleaves too, we never saw those people.

A shame. A missed opportunity for all those Muslims with little faith. :cry:
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but the heart of the fool to the left.

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Hombre
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Hombre »

I don't think it's a matter of victory or defeat - rather the power of information & knowledge. We know Muslims & Islam - they don't know Judea & Christianity. We read the Quran as well as other literature pertinent to Muhammad & Islam. They never read our holy book & dismiss them as "corrupted" ones. It puts them at an intellectual disadvantage with us.

We move the polemic into their turf - challenge & push them on Islam & Muhammad to corners - force them to answer tough & pertinent questions. It is clear they have a hard time countering with discernible argument. Abraham all the way to Jesus were Muslims & practices Islam? Or Qa'aba was built by Adam & Abraham?

It is their mega-sized pride & the way Muslims are taught of Islam superiority over Judea-Christianity prevents them to admit flaws in the Quran & Islam itself - or Muhammad - let alone to agree with our take - based on facts & science about the validity of Islam & that of Muhammad himself.

You see!, Muslims score their biggest victory only with those non-Muslims unfamiliar with Islam & the Quran. Knowing they did not read the Quran - Muslim shove any Quranic thesis (word of Allah) as they wish. Had these non-Muslim read the 114 chapter manuscript - they would see that 70% of its content was derived from the HB, 10% from NT & the rest from Zoroastrian & pagan practice (in which we have wrote volumes here)

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manfred
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by manfred »

A casing point is Sinéad O'Connor.... she had various "conversions", about as many as marriages, after the last she announced to the world that she was a lesbian. I have no problem with being a lesbian, but I would question the reasons and the fairness of a lesbian (or gay man) to enter a marriage. There is a big part of what makes a marriage missing. Worse, if the other partner is unaware, this will sooner or later lead to terrible heart ache and pain.

in 2007 she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and in 2018 became a Muslim. She did not even know how to say "Mohammed" when she was filmed doing salah, which she did did all wrong...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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manfred
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by manfred »

SAM also raised this as a way to derail a topic about the black stone.

But it does deserve some thought.

There are several reason why Muslims do not come here or generally do not stay.

1) When people join a forum or group they usually go to one where most people have views hat are similar to theirs. It is hard for a Muslim in a definite minority here.
2) It is even harder if your world views and your self-image are constantly examined and critically evaluate.
3) A third factor, and that is very important, is that it is not risk free for a Muslim to even come here to read around, let alone write. He risks disapproval even abuse or worse from friends and family, and being suspected of being an "apostate".
4) Most realise that there is little chance of any of the "converting" anyone here.

Why Muslims SHOULD come here are write:

1) To explain their beliefs, and in the process do what most other people have done in he world... allow rational discussions around religion. This is a win-win for them, as this trial either confirms their beliefs or sets hem free from a shackle they do not need. Both outcomes are positive for them.
2) To balance off things that are being said here, so that topics have "Both sides of he story".
3) To defend Islam using reason and learning, not other methods Islam is known for. They can improve the image of Islam.
4) to discover things about Islam they they perhaps did not know before.

So a :hi: to Sam and eagle who have, despite of the issues, not run away. If it feels lonely, bring some friends, they are more than welcome. And I hope at least one thing was learnt by you here... however much we disagree about things, you are amongst friends. Diverging views does not make us enemies.

However, to accommodate Muslims we will not censor ourselves. This would be the end of the forum.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by SAM »

Your knowledge of Islamic doctrine is limited to Muslims. Just because you can't win the debate, you accuse your opponent of being a troll and all the Muslim explanations you say are all lies, :blahblah1:

One thing you should know about this FFi is the non-Muslim website. There are many heathen defenders of Christianity who visit Islamic websites for debate and argue but they are not cowards like you here hiding behind computers. :yuk:

I even joined other Christian forums to argue and debate their Christianity ... They hate and ban me as much as you do me. :lol:
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Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by manfred »

So writing in this forum is "hiding behind computers" but in other forums it is not?

SAM perhaps you need to look at what you call "debate". Simple things: stick to topics. Be polite. Then nobody will ban you, in any forum, or at least in any decent one.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

sum
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

I`m not aware of you winning any debate.

I am aware that you did not help your co-religionist, Eagle, when he was in great difficulties with jinn. Perhaps this was because you could not help because the matter of jinn can not be supported and so rather than lose a discussion you left Eagle hanging out to dry. Not very supportive were you.

Will you be answering my question in the thread addressed to you? I need you to help me to understand the problems with yawning when praying.

sum

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SAM
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:So writing in this forum is "hiding behind computers" but in other forums it is not?

SAM perhaps you need to look at what you call "debate". Simple things: stick to topics. Be polite. Then nobody will ban you, in any forum, or at least in any decent one.
The same thing happened to you, permanently banned from the ummah forum (Islamic). Your inability to answer their questions makes you resort personal attacks on all Muslims when challenged... :harhar:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by manfred »

ummah forum? I can't remember what it was called but I did join a Muslim forum once. I got a load abuse and then a ban. They did not ask any questions. I did. That is what got me banned there.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:ummah forum? I can't remember what it was called but I did join a Muslim forum once. I got a load abuse and then a ban. They did not ask any questions. I did. That is what got me banned there.
Don't act stupid . I'm still not senile like you ... you mentioned the case about 9 years ago. You are banned on ummah.com.. :lotpot:

That's why you only dare to challenge Muslims in this FFi forum, not outside it. So now who are the cowards, SAM, Eagle, Mughal or the FFi-kafirs here?
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by manfred »

SAM, if you cannot behave you get a holiday. Watch you manners, very carefully. My patience is wearing thin.
Joining the Muslim forum was a long time ago, and I told you what happened. I asked questions, as to Mary and Miriam, and the origin of sperm, or the effectiveness of a beef steak in solving crime, I was called a lot of names and promptly banned.

You have been banned permanently from a lot of places, and I can see why. You are not here to have a serious discussion, only to be rude.

This is a total nonsense point, so I go to a Muslim forum, and I am a coward, but Muslims coming here are heroes?
I have some respect of eagle, as he is polite and tries to really discuss things. You just act the clown.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

sum
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

If all the muslims on ummah.com are so confident about their faith which they can defend then why on earth do they not come here to show us how logical and true Islam is? Surely they would be capable of more than defending Islam and who knows - they might even convert us!

Will you be inviting them to come here or have you already tried? If you have tried to get them to come here but they are afraid to do so then does that not tell you something?

I must remind you that you have never won a debate here and you run away from my questions.

Have you made your mind up yet as to whether you support right of conquest?

sum

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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:For the last few days there has been no muslim input to the Forum. My own view is that they have been defeated in their defence of Islam, Koran and Muhammad. Years ago there were plenty of muslims in the Forum but they have faded away. If they were winning the debates they would certainly have stayed and followed the Koranic guidance of "...not suing for peace while having the upper hand".

In my view Islam can not be defended on the grounds of science, facts, equality of mankind or even common sense etc and this is why muslims are leaving the Forum. I think that they hope that the Forum runs out of steam and in effect closes down in order to protect their obviously false ideology.

sum
Dear sum, I am here but too much on my hands to do, so I do not have enough time to do everything. Also it is not the duty of a muslim to explain all things but to deliver the message of God to his human creatures and let them try and understand the message properly for themselves. No matter how much anyone tries to explain something for anyone, if one is not interested in proper understanding of something then one will not. It is between God and individuals as well as between individuals and their human societies they bring about as to how they face consequences for accepting or rejecting the message of God.

As I see things, people have wrong idea of thinking someone else will spoon feed them with what they desire to know. No one can rather all learn by their own efforts whatever they wish to learn. The fact that the quran is in arabic language is no real barrier because one can learn basics of any language within a couple of years of one's life.

The quran cannot be understood properly just because one can understand arabic language rather one has to know real world realities to a needed degree before one could understand the quran properly. It is because one cannot understand any book written by anyone till one has the level of knowledge the book requires for its proper understanding by the reader.

I have opened up a new thread for discussing basics so that we all could help each other understand things better. Hopefully we will come to realise whether the quran and its teachings can be defended or not against ignorant muslims and kaafirs alike.

regards and all the best.

sum
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

There is one extremely important point that you completely overlook. You have already agreed that Muhammad`s life, words and deeds were all in accord with the guidance of the Koran. The Koran says that Muhammad is the perfect example for mankind to follow.

All we now have to do is to see what Muhammad said and did and we then have the perfect guidance according to the Koran.

Don`t you think that you are wasting your time looking for the meaning of the Koran when you already have it all at your finger tips when the life, words and deeds are there for you to see and so the real Koranic guidance in action?

sum

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Hombre
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Hombre »

SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:ummah forum? I can't remember what it was called but I did join a Muslim forum once. I got a load abuse and then a ban. They did not ask any questions. I did. That is what got me banned there.
Don't act stupid . I'm still not senile like you ... you mentioned the case about 9 years ago. You are banned on ummah.com.. :lotpot:

That's why you only dare to challenge Muslims in this FFi forum, not outside it. So now who are the cowards, SAM, Eagle, Mughal or the FFi-kafirs here?
SAM I just scanned some of the discussions on ummah.com. One poster asked an innocent question "is it haram to read the Hebrew Bible"?. He added "A Pakistani Imam told him it is forbidden for Muslims to the both HB & NT.

It seems he was banned after he posted that - indeed he did read large part of the HB - regardless of the prohibition. Banned for bringing "Haram" subject to the forum.?

Site like these only re-enforce the nation held by the west that, Islam is not for enlightenment & acquire knowledge - rather it is a cult with sole purpose of keeping its adherents subjugated to a man who lived 1400 years ago & still instill fear in the heats & mind of every Muslim.

Don't come here & proselytize to the non-Muslims among us the glorified attributes of Islam as an enriching religion - it is not & you know it.

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Hombre
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Hombre »

SAM Wrote:
You are right Paul Tarsus, a Jew who heard the voices of Satan's higher authority and then fooled the illiterate Gentiles. :lol:
You think you can post rubbish & lock the thread you can get away with it - You don't.
From what I read - Paul Tarsus was a Jewish who followed Jesus. Why do you bring only him to make your point. Still fact is fact. Anyone who claims to hear voices from Allah or God, in today's science its called Schizophrenia & he / she is treated as a a sick individual & treated in mental Hospital. Had Muhammad lived today & claim the same as he did in 610 ACE he too would be talking to a psychiatric doctor - Not a prophet & no enchilada,

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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Centaur »

Abdool go and learn your own sources before making silly statements as according to your paedo prophet's book Paul was an apostle of pagan god Allah. :D unlike paedo illiterate barbarian profit Mo. Paul was a man of knowledge and status.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gR2XmFtN0Q

Bulus is the Arabic name for Paul. https://hamariweb.com/names/muslim/urd ... urn false;
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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

There is one extremely important point that you completely overlook. You have already agreed that Muhammad`s life, words and deeds were all in accord with the guidance of the Koran. The Koran says that Muhammad is the perfect example for mankind to follow.

All we now have to do is to see what Muhammad said and did and we then have the perfect guidance according to the Koran.

Don`t you think that you are wasting your time looking for the meaning of the Koran when you already have it all at your finger tips when the life, words and deeds are there for you to see and so the real Koranic guidance in action?

sum
Dear sum, I never said words and deeds of a person were criterion for the truth of deen of islam. You are very wrong in attributing such a thing to me. Please read my explanations with a bit of attention so you could understand what I have said.

In islam it is revelation of God that is the criterion for what is actually true and what is actually right. No person is perfect including muhammad the messenger of God. It is because the quran itself explains how even messengers of God have been making mistakes. The quran tells us to support that which is according to it and oppose what is against it.

It is true that muhammad is the best example when it comes to following the quran but in what sense? It is because muhammad set the precedent as to how to use guidelines of the quran to set up a proper human community in the kingdom of God. to do so he brought about a proper constitution and its laws.

You need to get mullahs nonsense out of your mind who say what you have attributed to me. I always argued against it because none can record anyone's all words and deeds 24x7. Now if you cannot record all words and deeds of anyone then who can follow them or how? Please use your brain. Go check my posts about these facts.

Think about why God sent his messages and messengers. It was for guiding humanity to establish their human societies on the model told in those messages of God. First such a society was established by adam and the last by muhamamd. After death of muhamamd that society fell apart but it will come about in the end again but this time it will be a worldwide human society and it will be brought about by all human beings together when they reach the stage of knowledge the quran requires of them.

It is good that people like you raise some questions which make others think but it is time you also tried to answer your own questions as well just like me. This will help you discover actual islam from the quran instead of thinking mullah nonsense is actual islam.

Mullahs islam is that which is from rulers and money lenders. Mullahs were and are their stooges. You are also being fooled by them in thinking their islam is the real islam.

Please pay attention to my point that humanity has no basis to judge anything at all for its truth or propriety. If you have anything please share. This is why humanity needs to understand the quran properly by knowing the way to do so. All sources of information are valid only if they prove true and right not otherwise and for that we need a solid criterion to base our judgements upon. The quran is the only book that seemingly fits as a criterion for this purpose.

As for golden rule you are not applying it for judging the quran, why not? If you have formula apply it everywhere where it can be applied otherwise it is not right to claim something and do the opposite. There is no point in saying things about the quran, islam or muhammad if you are not willing to understand what is actually said about them in its proper context. Anyone is attributing lies to them due to ignorance who has no sense of proper criterion or context.

regards and all the best.

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Re: Where have the muslims gone?

Post by Mughal »

Hombre wrote: Still fact is fact. Anyone who claims to hear voices from Allah or God, in today's science its called Schizophrenia & he / she is treated as a a sick individual & treated in mental Hospital. Had Muhammad lived today & claim the same as he did in 610 ACE he too would be talking to a psychiatric doctor - Not a prophet & no enchilada,
I think you are wrong here dear hombre, the reason is anyone can claim anything from God but does it prove to be from God? If it does then that person is telling the truth. Anyone who declares such a person mad is himself insane.

regards and all the best.

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