Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

I have asked Mughal several questions but he does not answer them.

Two of the latest questions are " Why does he prefer the "deen" of Islam instead of the "deen" of Christianity?

The other is "What does the Koran, especially chapter 9, say should happen to me because I do not believe Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet?

He can answer giving the current Koranic understanding and/or his own interpretation of the Koran.

I have to admit that did say that he did not believe that the miracles that Jesus allegedly performed were real. I am not sure if he has ever said a good word about Christianity or Jesus but if he has then I have missed it.

One earlier question was "Did Muhammad practice the correct understanding of the guidance of the Koran"? No reply. Muhammad seems to be a taboo subject to Mughal.

sum

User avatar
manfred
Posts: 11617
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:29 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by manfred »

Hi sum, to me this seems quite obvious.... When some people do not have a reasonable answer to give they do one of three things:

1) You blame the asker and get abusive, like SAM generally does.
2) You try to create a distraction in an effort to change the subject, also a favourite ploy. This includes any "tu quoque" post or any deliberately offensive post. Anything really, to get away from the question.
3) Simply pretend you did not see the question and stay silent.

An honest response may be things like "I don't know" or "because this is the tradition I grew up in" is the last thing you get... Remember also that onle of the things that is lind of "hard wired" in to a Muslim is the notion that he is "superior" to others, so few will even think you are worth a rational reply. The aim of almost all Muslims on this forum has been not to discuss but to silence people.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

After reading, with great effort, Mughal`s longwinded posts I am not sure if Mughal has a defect in his logic or he is trying to fool people into accepting that only he has the real message of the Koran which is peace and love for all mankind.

He seems to believe that only a god could provide the true way of life by which to live and receive the benefits which I presume are those upon death. He is scathing about the Golden Rule being enough for mankind to live by as there is no end product. If he wants a god which for him is a complete unarguable matter then for reasons best known to himself he chooses a god with a prophet who have identical outlooks on societal order but this includes the hatred of those outside their faith with killing, torture, oppression and enslavement.

He has only to look at the established religion of Christianity which is based on love and the Golden Rule which was spread by teaching in accordance with its message for mankind whereas Islam was spread by the sword.

When it comes to how mankind should follow the guidance in the Koran one has only to look at the words and deeds of Muhammad. Were they in full accord with Koranic guidance and should mankind follow the best example for mankind, Muhammad, to emulate for all time? This is crucial in deciding whether the Koran is faithfully followed by Muhammad bearing in mind that there was no criticism of Muhammad in the Koran except when he was slow to follow his lust for his adopted son`s wife. He received a mild rebuke from Allah. If Muhammad`s words and deeds are not criticised by Allah then Mughal will have to accept that the Koran is full of hate, enmity, warfare. Will you criticise Muhammad, Mughal?

If you do not then you are accepting all the literal evil that is in the Koran which in itself should convince you that the Koran and Islam are both false and just a creation of Muhammad.

Where has your reason gone, Mughal?

sum

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:I have asked Mughal several questions but he does not answer them.

Two of the latest questions are " Why does he prefer the "deen" of Islam instead of the "deen" of Christianity?

The other is "What does the Koran, especially chapter 9, say should happen to me because I do not believe Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet?

He can answer giving the current Koranic understanding and/or his own interpretation of the Koran.

I have to admit that did say that he did not believe that the miracles that Jesus allegedly performed were real. I am not sure if he has ever said a good word about Christianity or Jesus but if he has then I have missed it.

One earlier question was "Did Muhammad practice the correct understanding of the guidance of the Koran"? No reply. Muhammad seems to be a taboo subject to Mughal.

sum
Dear sum, I have answered many questions about deen of islam by various people but the problem is you look at things from your point of view and not the way you should.

You are not looking at what i am explaining as deen of islam instead you try to take some of what I say and fit it in what others say about deen of islam. You do not bother to distinguish between explanations of others and my explanation and the foundation upon which I base my explanation.

All I am saying is learn deen of islam the way I explain it on the basis I use for it and then look at what islam means for others as they explain it and see which of them makes better sense as a complete unit. If I am talking nonsense it will become clear and if others are talking nonsense then that too will become clear.

Likewise you can learn islam and christianity or any other way of life and compare them and see which is better and why or how.

You are calling christianity deen or way of life but can you tell me what a way of life is supposed to be about? That will help us decide which is way of life and which is not.

regards and all the best.

Here is a lecture about deen of islam in urdu with english subtitles to help you know what deen of islam is. It is from 1884. You can have a look at it when you find some time on your hand.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGhanQ_582o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHFHuhoBG3I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzWo9gUO5fc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

antineoETC
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by antineoETC »

Wasn't Mughal an ex-Muslim? Has he "reverted" back to Islam? Looking at his more recent posts he seems to now believe in the Quran as a divine book.

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Your post is disappointing in that you have still not addressed the three questions that you have been asked. Surely you must have views that could be presented but for some reason you do not wish to do so. Is this because you know that they will be unacceptable to both non-muslims and even muslims?

I do not wish to be diverted from the three questions that you have so far ignored and so would like to ask you yet again to answer the three questions. These are very important questions and go to the very heart of Islam.

sum

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Your post is disappointing in that you have still not addressed the three questions that you have been asked. Surely you must have views that could be presented but for some reason you do not wish to do so. Is this because you know that they will be unacceptable to both non-muslims and even muslims?

I do not wish to be diverted from the three questions that you have so far ignored and so would like to ask you yet again to answer the three questions. These are very important questions and go to the very heart of Islam.

sum
Dear sum, I asked you a question, what is way of life about? The reason I asked you this question is, so that I could see what you make of way of life and particularly of deen of islam. It is because you are putting forward christianity as a way of life if that is what you mean by words deen of christianity. Ask same question of anyone who claims to be a hindu or parsi or jew or christian or muslim or whatever. This is a starting point. If anyone claims any of the religions is a way of life then one has to explain what one means by deen or way of life.

In my view religion cannot be way of life because it is only about dogmas and ritualism. Dogma and ritualism cannot be way of life. I want to know why not from you as well as all the rest of religious people. What is needed for a scripture to act as a book for a way of life?

http://aastana.com/books/16_E.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://aastana.com/books/15_E.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://aastana.com/books/19_E.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://tolueislam.org/category/expositi ... ad-parwez/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will wait for your reply and hope it makes sense to me as it does to you.

regards and all the best.

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

First and foremost this subject is about Islam and it is up to you to answer my questions that I have already asked before I answer any of yours.

Let us start with the question of whether Muhammad`s words and deeds were in full accord with the guidance of the Koran. Were they?

sum

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

First and foremost this subject is about Islam and it is up to you to answer my questions that I have already asked before I answer any of yours.

Let us start with the question of whether Muhammad`s words and deeds were in full accord with the guidance of the Koran. Were they?

sum
Dear sum, stop getting scared. I am explaining deen of islam for you and others. The point in asking questions is to see what you already know and where to start to help you get out of the confusion that you are in, in this regard. If you have problem about knowing what a way of life can or cannot be then say it. I will get into nitty gritty of things as and when I have time to explain it for you and others. There is no point in me explaining things which you may already know. I mean what is sense in me explaining something whole lot and then you tell me you already knew this?

So kindly explain for me what you think a way of life is or what it has to be.

regards and all the best.

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Your quote
Dear sum, stop getting scared.

Even more reason to believe that you can not see things as they really are.

Your mask is slipping and you are behaving just like all other muslims by trying your very best to avoid answering difficult questions. It is your understanding of Islam and Muhammad that is under the spotlight.

I will ask yet again - Let us start with the question of whether Muhammad`s words and deeds were in full accord with the guidance of the Koran. Were they?

It is a simple question yet you are the one who is scared to the point that you are not answering the question.

This question needs your answer. Are you going to answer it?

sum

antineoETC
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by antineoETC »

Mughal wrote:
sum wrote:Hello Mughal

First and foremost this subject is about Islam and it is up to you to answer my questions that I have already asked before I answer any of yours.

Let us start with the question of whether Muhammad`s words and deeds were in full accord with the guidance of the Koran. Were they?

sum
Dear sum, stop getting scared. I am explaining deen of islam for you and others. The point in asking questions is to see what you already know and where to start to help you get out of the confusion that you are in, in this regard. If you have problem about knowing what a way of life can or cannot be then say it. I will get into nitty gritty of things as and when I have time to explain it for you and others. There is no point in me explaining things which you may already know. I mean what is sense in me explaining something whole lot and then you tell me you already knew this?

So kindly explain for me what you think a way of life is or what it has to be.

regards and all the best.

I thought you were an ex-Muslim Mughal. Was I mistaken or did you "revert" back to Islam?

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Your quote
Dear sum, stop getting scared.

Even more reason to believe that you can not see things as they really are.

Your mask is slipping and you are behaving just like all other muslims by trying your very best to avoid answering difficult questions. It is your understanding of Islam and Muhammad that is under the spotlight.

I will ask yet again - Let us start with the question of whether Muhammad`s words and deeds were in full accord with the guidance of the Koran. Were they?

It is a simple question yet you are the one who is scared to the point that you are not answering the question.

This question needs your answer. Are you going to answer it?

sum
Dear sum, we must learn things systematically and methodically. How can we put cart before the horse? Because each and everything has its own place value. We cannot pick and choose things out of their proper context or we end up in confusion. This is why I explain the proper context of things. It is because we must look at a whole thing first to see where does the rest of detail go or fit in.

If we want to judge what muhammad said or did then we must first understand the yardstick he used for saying and doing things and the yardstick we are forced to use for judging things he said or did is deen of islam or islamic way of life. If you or I do not even know what way of life is or what way of life has to be then where is sense in discussing anything based upon way of life?

So all I want you to do is define what way of life is in your mind or what it has to be. I will either agree with you or disagree with you about it. If I disagree with you then I will define it and then you can agree or disagree with me about it. Once we have defined the way of life properly then we will discuss whether muhammad has lived by that proper way of life or not. If we do not do this then you will say what you want to say and I will say what I want to say and the end result will be nothing more than confusion.

I hope you can see why definition of proper way of life is of such vital importance. May be you will also come to realise why people have neglected this issue of such a fundamental importance. Whenever anyone questions muslims what is islam, they answers, Islam is a way of life. They also tell muhammad and his companions lived by this way of life. So if anyone wants to know how muhammad lived then first one must find out how he was supposed to live and then did he or did he not live by that way of life? Not only that it will also help us know what our way of life should be.

Hope this clarifies things for you.

Regards and all the best.

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

Mughal`s quote -
I on the other hand am trying to understand, what went wrong that these people converted to Islam the while people like myself have left Islam after realizing the truth about Islam.

This quote is from "Mughal the Infidel" also in this section - "Islam, Defended and Explained". It is in the opening post.

sum

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Your quote -
So if anyone wants to know how muhammad lived then first one must find out how he was supposed to live and then did he or did he not live by that way of life?

Exactly. That is my question in a nutshell. Muhammad was supposed to follow Koranic guidance as that is Allah`s guidance allegedly passed on to Muhammad by Gabriel.

And so I will ask again - Were Muhammad`s words and deeds in full accord with Koranic guidance?

sum

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

antineoETC wrote:I thought you were an ex-Muslim Mughal. Was I mistaken or did you "revert" back to Islam?
Dear antineoETC, when we are born in this world we adopt the way of life our ancestors live by till we start thinking ourselves and find out things for ourselves. Likewise I was born into a household that claimed it was a muslim household. As I grew I found out things did not make sense to me the way they were explained. So I moved away from things which made no sense to me. However as I studied things more and more they made more and more sense in a very different way from the way I was raised with.

I was raised as a religious muslim ie believing in nonsensical dogmas and useless rituals and practices that benefited none and if anything they wasted time of their believers and practitioners. I moved away from all that and have adopted a new understanding of things which I did not know when I was born. Now I understand islam as to what it actually is much better than ever before. That is all. This is the way we all move on if opportunity avails itself ie we do not stick to things we think are wrong as we become better aware of things. In a way I left one kind of islam for another kind and there was a period of time in between these changes when I was very confused about things.

Regards and all the best.

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Your quote -
So if anyone wants to know how muhammad lived then first one must find out how he was supposed to live and then did he or did he not live by that way of life?

Exactly. That is my question in a nutshell. Muhammad was supposed to follow Koranic guidance as that is Allah`s guidance allegedly passed on to Muhammad by Gabriel.

And so I will ask again - Were Muhammad`s words and deeds in full accord with Koranic guidance?

sum
Dear sum, I will say it again, knowing about actual islamic way of life is of fundamental importance for proper understanding of the issue, how muhammad lived his life. I don't know why you are running away from defining a proper way of life? However if short answer makes you happy then yes, muhammad lived the way God told him according to the quran and the quran is a foundational primary source of the islamic way of life. This short answer explains nothing at all as I see it because it is the islamic way of life that is primary issue as far as I am concerned.

Regards and all the best.

sum
Posts: 6532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Your quote -
I don't know why you are running away from defining a proper way of life?

This is not part of this thread. I suggest that you open a new thread in which this can be discussed.

Now we know that you believe that Muhammad`s words and deeds were in accord with the guidance of the Koran.

Now will you say what should happen to me according to chapter 9 in the Koran because I do not believe that Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet?

sum

antineoETC
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by antineoETC »

Mughal wrote:I moved away from all that and have adopted a new understanding of things which I did not know when I was born. Now I understand islam as to what it actually is much better than ever before.
Fine. Could you explain how you understand the following quran passage?:

It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the deen of truth to manifest it over all deens, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it.

What does the deen of Islam being "manifested" over (or prevailing/triumphing over) other deens entail as you see it?

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Your quote -
I don't know why you are running away from defining a proper way of life?

This is not part of this thread. I suggest that you open a new thread in which this can be discussed.

Now we know that you believe that Muhammad`s words and deeds were in accord with the guidance of the Koran.

Now will you say what should happen to me according to chapter 9 in the Koran because I do not believe that Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet?

sum
Dear sum, again I can clearly see that your problem is same as mine ie how people should live in this world properly. The quran answers this question very clearly. It tells us to be an ummah or a human brotherhood under rule of law of God. To live in a way that we end up making our world a paradise for all of us with our own hard works through help and full support of each other.

For doing so the quran tells us to take deen of islam as a universal mission for putting humanity on the track that is best for it to live-by for a time set by God. The quran tells us how to approach each other to discuss things with each other in a nice way. No where the quran tells people to use force save when force is used against the missionaries of deen of islam. Likewise any antisocial elements in society or community must also be dealt with appropriately on case by case basis.

However the problem is people who claim to be muslims most of them have little or no idea what islamic way of life is. They take deen of islam as a religion and those religious beliefs and practices have nothing at all to do with deen of islam.

Some times I think about starting discussions with muslim as well on this forum but problem is I do not have enough time on my hands to do so. However people here if they read my posts may be they can do that and educate muslims out of their nonsense and stupidity. I am stuck with what I am doing for the time being till I am through with it.

There is no restriction in the quran regarding nonmuslims living in an islamic state. Not only that they can live with assurance of life and liberty like the rest of muslim population in the islamic state. If they commit any crimes in the state they will have similar punishments like muslims. Way of life at state level must be same for all and the rest is up to themselves. They can have their places of worship and go their freely after fulfilling their social responsibilities and obligations and getting their rights.

So nothing should happen to you if you are one of the members of the islamic state provided you do not do anything which incriminates you according to law of the land. However this is my understanding of the quran for the time being with which religious muslims disagree but they cannot explain anything at all about the quran and deen of islam because of their lack of knowledge about them, which becomes very obvious when I talk to them and so it will once you learn things the way I have explained.

As for current violence in the name of deen of islam, this can be understood when looked at in its proper context. Muslims have been brainwashed by rulers, money lenders and mullahs just like all other people in the world who oppose proper way of life for living properly in this world. This is why it is of vital importance for people to understand proper way of life and then see who is thinking and doing wrong to humanity as a whole and why or how etc etc.

So anyone who wishes to know things properly first must ask oneself what is proper way to live in this world properly for a human being. This has to be the starting point for all human beings for all answers of all questions. It will then become clear who are the people who are fighting against it and why they are doing that. Nothing else can explain this vitally important point.

It is important to know proper way of life also because life is a journey from the day one is born till one dies and if one does not try to know proper way of life, one will always remain confused about each and everything in life. It is therefore good for oneself to make that journey as pleasant and easy as possible.

Regards and all the best.

Mughal
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 am
Location: i/g
Contact:

Re: Why won`t Mughal answer questions?

Post by Mughal »

antineoETC wrote:
Mughal wrote:I moved away from all that and have adopted a new understanding of things which I did not know when I was born. Now I understand islam as to what it actually is much better than ever before.
Fine. Could you explain how you understand the following quran passage?:

It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the deen of truth to manifest it over all deens, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it.

What does the deen of Islam being "manifested" over (or prevailing/triumphing over) other deens entail as you see it?
Dear antineoETC, the verse is simply telling us life is a journey from the day we are born till the day we die so we must try our best to discover why we are here or who has brought us here and for what within our given time limit.

Different people as they grow move in different directions they decide for themselves and the result of that is the state of human world we have today. However the human state did not and does not and will not remain as it started rather it will keep on changing till we get where we ought to be. The quran is only expressing that reality beyond our thinking. The quran is telling us in advance one day whole of humanity will have the very same way of life and that will be due to interaction between human beings themselves as they struggle through life and discover things for themselves.

How long it will take things to be that way depends upon how soon human beings become a highly educated and thinking people. The sooner people help each other educate and think better the quicker that stage will arrive for them but if they will try to undermine each other and delay this process by their own doings then it will take much longer for this human journey to end at the right destiny. Regardless what happens things will end one day where they should. Delay in the process will only cause needless human suffering by hands of each other.

This is why God does not tell us when we will reach our destination but he does tell us what is our destination or where are we heading and why we will reach that destination or how. We ourselves can also see we are gradually moving towards that end. Over last so many human generations we have discovered a lot of things about which we knew absolutely nothing at all. This is why there is hope that we will also discover a lot more yet about which we have no idea at all.

These verses do not mean islam will be forced upon people but as the quran explain people will discover islamic way of life is the best way of life for them for living in this world and that is why they will freely discover and adopt it. Duty of missionaries is to let people know about this way of life and it is up to them to take it or leave it but one day all will take it rather than leaving it because they will have come to realise what it is and what it can offer them.

If anything it is muslims who are criminally negligent who have ignored proper study of the quran and they are unable to explain the quran to rest of humanity as it was ought to be explained. Likewise nonmuslims are also criminally negligent that they too could have found out things for themselves even if muslims had failed humanity regarding message of God. At least muslim have brought the quran to their attention so that they could try and study it properly as it deserves to be studied.

It is because people have not given message of God its deserved attention they are suffering by hands of each other and this will remain the situation till they start paying due attention to message of God. After all human beings write and read so many books but the question is, for what? In order to make sense of life. Yet human beings are ignoring the very book which actually gives people the proper sense of things they are missing. The sense which nothing else can give them ever except the book.

Regards and all the best.

Post Reply