what's in a name?

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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Takeiteasynow
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by Takeiteasynow »

Yeshua (rendered in Greek as Jesus) means "God is salvation".
The first and oldest Arabic (votive) inscription from Nabataean Madaba, circa 20 BCE:
And he [ ...the servant of God ...] works without reward or favor, and he, when death tried to claim us, did not let it claim us, for when a wound of us festered, he did not let us perish.
Abraham= H'ammu'rab(b)i, Historical Muhammad=Benjamin of Tiberias. Theological: Mahmud from Najran Islam: Syncretic Israelite Yahwishm Deity: nameless, epithets Dsr, El Qutbay, ʼAlâhâ, Allāh. Ka'ba: Kutha => Samaria => Petra=> Makkah. Hijrah 622: Petra => Kerak

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

The name Jesus, is false and meaningless. The correct one is Isa.

the Son of God.This is wrong, the correct one is Isa, son of Mary
According to whom?
And this was suggested when?
And why?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

SAM wrote:Jesus, son of Eliezer
SAM deleted his own post, and I wonder if he cares to tell us why. In it he mentioned a line from Luke's genealogy of Jesus, presumably wondering why "Joshua, son of Eliezer" is not also called "Jesus". The simple answer is, yes he was called just that, you can check here:

https://biblehub.com/text/luke/3-29.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but later translators of his text did not, and instead referred back to the Hebrew to avoid confusion.

"Jeshua"is more modern version of the name "Joshua", and both mean the same thing.The proper name is יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Yehoshuʿa

The connection to the HB Joshua and the name of Jesus was not lost on the early Christians who saw in Jesus a much more profound "saviour" than the Israelites.... Jesus brings salvation and redemption from sin, Joshua delivered the promised land to the Israelites. There are parallels and differences which appeared in sermons of he old church.

And the reason why Yeshua, the name of Jesus, was rendered as "Jesus" is because the Septuagint, the oldest Greek translation of the HB, also rendered both Yehoshu'a and Yeshua as "Jesus".
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote: And the reason why Yeshua, the name of Jesus, was rendered as "Jesus" is because the Septuagint, the oldest Greek translation of the HB, also rendered both Yehoshu'a and Yeshua as "Jesus".
Where is the historical evidence that Jesus was once called Yehoshu'a in his lifetime.
manfred wrote:
The name Jesus, is false and meaningless. The correct one is Isa.

the Son of God.This is wrong, the correct one is Isa, son of Mary
According to whom?
And this was suggested when?
And why?
There are some Islamic sects that use ascetic Isa as a popular model in strengthening the ascetic doctrine of Tasawuf (self-purification or Mysticism) according to valid source, al-Quran and Hadits. The name Isa has a deep meaning for them. And of course I know it. :whistling:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

Ah, SAM and his secret meanings.... we should have a topic on that perhaps....

And SAM has discovered "ascetic doctrines"..... the same SAM who brags about using his two inch punisher to "mess up women".

And then there is "self-purification"..... the illusion that ritual washing makes you "pure", even if your life has been mostly about rolling around in the filth of your own making....

How do you polish a turd, SAM?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Ah, SAM and his secret meanings.... we should have a topic on that perhaps....

And SAM has discovered "ascetic doctrines"..... the same SAM who brags about using his two inch punisher to "mess up women".

And then there is "self-purification"..... the illusion that ritual washing makes you "pure", even if your life has been mostly about rolling around in the filth of your own making....

How do you polish a turd, SAM?
:lotpot: Your assessment to show your incompetence and ignorance about Jesus' purification and sanctification in Islam. :lol:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

The more you show about Islam the uglier it becomes. So you keep some revolting little secrets....
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:The more you show about Islam the uglier it becomes. So you keep some revolting little secrets....
:lotpot: I have discussed it before, but you ignore what I wrote because of your ignorant understanding of the teachings of Islam.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

Yes you have pretended to have "secret knowledge", thinking there are people stupid enough to believe it. It's the oldest con-trick of religious deceivers. But you keep revealing the ugly, dirty face of Islam here on a daily basis, so keep up the good work.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Yes you have pretended to have "secret knowledge", thinking there are people stupid enough to believe it. It's the oldest con-trick of religious deceivers. But you keep revealing the ugly, dirty face of Islam here on a daily basis, so keep up the good work.
:lotpot: You still want to know why "Isa" is the real name of Jesus in Islam. As you acknowledge that the name of Jesus is absolutely meaningless. :lol:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

No, I already know that, and I told you. "Isa" is part of Mohammed's re-write of the story of Jesus, part of of making him subordinate to Mohammed. And I told you what the name "Jesus" means, several times. That is the reason why Mohammed gave him a new name.

What I want from you is the level of deception you will lower yourself to to hide the facts, something you supplied obligingly, thank you.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:No, I already know that, and I told you. "Isa" is part of Mohammed's re-write of the story of Jesus, part of of making him subordinate to Mohammed. And I told you what the name "Jesus" means, several times. That is the reason why Mohammed gave him a new name.

What I want from you is the level of deception you will lower yourself to to hide the facts, something you supplied obligingly, thank you.
I've already answered it, but you did not notice it. I did not give straight answers but metaphorical answers. :whistling:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

Oh you did, SAM, you certainly did....
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Oh you did, SAM, you certainly did....
I have learned Islam through metaphorical, figurative, instead of straight answers. :D
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:Oh you did, SAM, you certainly did....
I have learned Islam through metaphorical, figurative, instead of straight answers. :D
The real Islam is plain to see for all. The rest is your wishful thinking which for the most part you do not share because It would not stand up to a scrutiny. There is no "secret" Islam.

And I just noticed this:
Where is the historical evidence that Jesus was once called Yehoshu'a in his lifetime.
What is it with you SAM that you cannot understand simple things. I did not say that at all. What I did say that yeshua and Yehoshu'a both mean the same thing, and one is an older version of the name, the other a newer version. In the old Greek translation called the Septuagint both names got "Jesus" as a translation, but later translations made a distinction.

Jesus's name in his life time would have been Yeshua as Matthew makes clear.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Ariel
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by Ariel »

SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:Oh you did, SAM, you certainly did....
I have learned Islam through metaphorical, figurative, instead of straight answers. :D
Like this..

Image
The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
The real Islam is plain to see for all....... There is no "secret" Islam.
Quran 3:7, He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by manfred »

But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah.
Look SAM, a verse about you.....
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah.
Look SAM, a verse about you.....
But those (manfred) in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, :lol:


And those who (SAM) are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.. :D
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

frankie
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Re: what's in a name?

Post by frankie »

SAM wrote:
frankie wrote:
SAM

What should concern you more is why a meaningless, non Arabic word like Isa found its way into a book said to be the verbatim words of an omniscient being, who had no trouble at all using the Arabic versions of the names of other alleged prophets,e.g.Musa, Yahya, Ibrahim, but stumbled translating the name of his most respected one of all.

Jesus is called this name because that is the name prophesied in the Bible, which is why Gabriel was sent to Mary to tell her to name the child she was going to give birth to as Yeshua,meaning "God Saves"

Luke 1:28-36

28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favoured one, the Lord is with you!”[a] 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”

35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born[c] will be called holy—the Son of God.


and you shall call his name Jesus..The name Jesus, is false and meaningless. The correct one is Isa.

the Son of God.This is wrong, the correct one is Isa, son of Mary


SAM:

The name Jesus is false and meaningless. The correct one is Isa.


Correction

The name Isa is fake and meaningless. The correct one is Jesus.

Allah proved it, when he used a non-Arabic word( Isa) which does not translate into anything, in any language.

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