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Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:55 pm
by SAM
manfred wrote:LOL, how does that relate to "Mohammed's nation"?

And did you read the whole of that story in Matthew?

A Canaanite woman asked Jesus for help with her sick daughter. He at first refuses as a way to test her faith:

Here is how the story ends:
28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


So the passage establishes the exact opposite of your selective quote: It is not your race or nationality that matters, it is your FAITH.
So, one woman represents all Gentiles ... :lotpot: :lotpot: :lotpot: :lotpot:

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:18 pm
by sum
Hello SAM

You are avoiding commenting on Muhammad`s example of having sex with 9yr old girls. Do you think that Muhammad`s example was a good one for young girls aged 9yrs?

Do you think that it is normal for a man to be aroused by the sight of a girl with no breasts or hips or pubic hair? If you do not think that it is normal then you must agree that Muhammad had a sexual perversion which he has foisted onto mankind as a good example to follow.

Tell us if you follow his example and if you do not follow his example then also tell us why.

sum

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:22 pm
by manfred
So, one woman represents all Gentiles ...


No she represents all the people with faith.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:51 pm
by Takeiteasynow
SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:Mohammed had a "nation"?
Jesus say he came only for Israel nation, not gentiles. He claimed that his mission was only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24).

Muhammad nation refers to the worldwide community of Islam


Nonsense. The word umma is only used in Islamic theology as a reference to a community since the publication of the Lisan al-Arab in the 13th century. It is, like so many others, a loan word from ancient Hebrew meaning nation with ummot as plural.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:22 am
by antineoETC
SAM wrote:
antineoETC wrote:
SAM wrote:It shows kafirs in the England have a morale [sic] bankruptcy without this illegitimate child, the birth rate certainly plummeted worse. That's why governments in the UK, they love to import more Muslims who will increase the number of births in their country. :lol:


May I remind you, SAM, that Islam is not opposed to sex - and hence the birth of children - outside of marriage? Please remind us what the Qur'an means by "right hand possession".
"Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, 'Oh Allah's Apostle We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?' [a sexual practice] The Prophet said, 'Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it, No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence."

Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives nor concubines, or they would not have seen any need to ask Mohammed about this.

There must be a marriage bond like mut'ah marriage or al-misyar marriage is the type of marriage contract.


SAM. In Surah 35:50 Allah permits his prophet sex with

a) his WIVES to whom he had given their dowry

b) those "right hand possessions" whom Allah had GIVEN Muhammad as prisoners of war

Note the clear distinction between the two? A "right hand possession" is NOT any kind of wife.

BTW, does the "right hand possession" have the right to refuse sex with her Muslim captor? If so it is CONSENSUAL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE. In that case you are in no position to preach about the "immorality" of free westerners who have extramarital sex. If the "right hand possession" is NOT entitled to refuse sex with her muslim possessor then we are dealing with rape.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:40 am
by SAM
Takeiteasynow wrote:
SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:Mohammed had a "nation"?
Jesus say he came only for Israel nation, not gentiles. He claimed that his mission was only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24).

Muhammad nation refers to the worldwide community of Islam


Nonsense. The word umma is only used in Islamic theology as a reference to a community since the publication of the Lisan al-Arab in the 13th century. It is, like so many others, a loan word from ancient Hebrew meaning nation with ummot as plural.
The phrase Ummah Wāhidah in the Quran (One Nation) refers to all the Islamic world as it existed at the time untill now...

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:57 am
by SAM
antineoETC wrote:
SAM. In Surah 35:50 Allah permits his prophet sex with

a) his WIVES to whom he had given their dowry

b) those "right hand possessions" whom Allah had GIVEN Muhammad as prisoners of war

Note the clear distinction between the two? A "right hand possession" is NOT any kind of wife.
Do you read carefully before replying....Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives nor concubines, or they would not have seen any need to ask Mohammed about this.

BTW, does the "right hand possession" have the right to refuse sex with her Muslim captor?
Who "right hand possession" reluctantly intercourse with her Muslim captor at that time? Who she is.. :clueless:

If so it is CONSENSUAL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE. In that case you are in no position to preach about the "immorality" of free westerners who have extramarital sex. If the "right hand possession" is NOT entitled to refuse sex with her muslim possessor then we are dealing with rape.
Bear in your mind, it is a white culture (paganism) before they embrace Christianity, they practicing of free sex, extramarital sex and sexual immorality.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:45 am
by antineoETC
SAM wrote: Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives


Correct. The "right hand possession" are not wives. Therefore the sex that Allah permits his prophet (and believers in general) to have with them is sex outside of marriage. Correct?

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:57 am
by Ariel
antineoETC wrote:
SAM wrote: Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives


Correct. The "right hand possession" are not wives. Therefore the sex that Allah permits his prophet (and believers in general) to have with them is sex outside of marriage. Correct?


In normal life you call those guys rapists

Mohammed the assaulter, aggressor and rapist :sly:

Ai!!! what an example to follow :no1:

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:26 am
by manfred
What is interesting is that passages about "right hand possessions" provided a moral fig leaf for the Rotherham grooming gang, If they had a girl is their possession, such as in the car, or the house, she was fair game for sex, even if she screamed for help. They drugged them and then gang raped them, repeatedly, and all with the absurd notion that God had sanctioned their actions.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:51 pm
by Fernando
SAM wrote:Western girls as young as 12 years old have had sex.
In many cases - thousands - after being tricked, drugged and then raped by Muslim gangs.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:13 am
by antineoETC
antineoETC wrote:
SAM wrote: Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives


Correct. The "right hand possession" are not wives. Therefore the sex that Allah permits his prophet (and believers in general) to have with them is sex outside of marriage. Correct?


Assuming that SAM agrees with me that his religion, Islam, permits its male adherents to have extramarital sex (ie sex with women other than their wives) then I cannot see what moral grounds he has to complain of the "immorality" of western men and women who engage in sex outside of marriage. Perhaps he can explain.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:18 am
by SAM
antineoETC wrote:
SAM wrote: Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives


Correct. The "right hand possession" are not wives. Therefore the sex that Allah permits his prophet (and believers in general) to have with them is sex outside of marriage. Correct?
I see you don't know how to distinguish between wife and right hand possession.

You avoid to answer my question
antineoETC wrote:BTW, does the "right hand possession" have the right to refuse sex with her Muslim captor?

Who "right hand possession" reluctantly intercourse with her Muslim captor at that time? Who she is.

And you agree with the truth about unnatural immorality, practicing free sex, extramarital sex, adultery, incest and sexual immorality of Westerners even after they became Christians.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:21 am
by antineoETC
Which brings me to Qur'an verse 4:25 And all married women [are forbidden unto you Muslim men] save those whom your right hands possess.

In other words Allah permits Muslim men to have sex with OTHER MENS WIVES ie to commit adultery. What does SAM have to say to this?

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:26 am
by antineoETC
SAM wrote:Who "right hand possession" reluctantly intercourse with her Muslim captor at that time?


I was talking about a general rule. The verse allowing Muslim men to have sex with "right hand possessions" is still applicable to this day is it not? If so then I ask you: If you, a Muslim man, had a right hand possession and you wanted sex with her would she be allowed to refuse your request?


And you agree with the truth about unnatural immorality, practicing free sex,.


So sex with a "right hand possession" who is not a Muslims wife is not "free" sex?

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:40 am
by SAM
antineoETC wrote:Which brings me to Qur'an verse 4:25 And all married women [are forbidden unto you Muslim men] save those whom your right hands possess.
You still do not understand the meaning of "right hand possess", (halal) according to mut'ah marriage or marriage marriage.

In other words Allah permits Muslim men to have sex with OTHER MENS WIVES ie to commit adultery. What does SAM have to say to this?
Really, provide the primary source.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:48 am
by SAM
antineoETC wrote:I was talking about a general rule. The verse allowing Muslim men to have sex with "right hand possessions" is still applicable to this day is it not? If so then I ask you: If you, a Muslim man, had a right hand possession and you wanted sex with her would she be allowed to refuse your request?
I see, you can not give the name of a captor, or the name of a woman who refuses to have sex with the captor.


So sex with a "right hand possession" who is not a Muslims wife is not "free" sex?
You still don't know how to distinguish between wife and right hand possession.

And you still agree with the truth about unnatural immorality, practicing free sex, extramarital sex, adultery, incest, sexual immorality, sexual atrocities among Westerners even after they became Christians.

They follow the examples of their Pope who are the most sinful in Christianity.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:53 am
by antineoETC
SAM wrote:
antineoETC wrote:Which brings me to Qur'an verse 4:25 And all married women [are forbidden unto you Muslim men] save those whom your right hands possess.
You still do not understand the meaning of "right hand possess", (halal) according to mut'ah marriage or marriage marriage.


Please provide a coherent definition of "right hand possession" as you understand the term.

In other words Allah permits Muslim men to have sex with OTHER MENS WIVES ie to commit adultery. What does SAM have to say to this?
Really, provide the primary source.[/quote]

I already quoted Qur'an verse 4:25 And all married women [are forbidden unto you Muslim men] save those whom your right hands possess.

Which means that (together with other Qur'an passages) Muslim men are "permitted" to have extramarital sex with, and indeed marry and have sex with, already-married women who fall into the category of "right hand possession". Having sex with/marrying already-married women, ie with other men's wives, is adultery. Ergo the Qur'an permits adultery.

Re: Islam in England.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:24 pm
by SAM
antineoETC wrote:
SAM wrote:
antineoETC wrote:
I already quoted Qur'an verse 4:25 And all married women [are forbidden unto you Muslim men] save those whom your right hands possess.

Which means that (together with other Qur'an passages) Muslim men are "permitted" to have extramarital sex with, and indeed marry and have sex with, already-married women who fall into the category of "right hand possession". Having sex with/marrying already-married women, ie with other men's wives, is adultery. Ergo the Qur'an permits adultery.


Quran 4:25, “And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

I don’t see a statement that Muslim men are "permitted" to have extramarital sex...

:troll:

Re: SAM explains Islam

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:56 pm
by manfred
SAM....
did you say there is only one Qur'an? Strange how yours is somewhat different than the copies I found:

Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.


You find the Arabic and several translations here, all by Muslims.

http://www.openburhan.net/


Here is the context we are told relate to that verse:
Abu Said al-Khudri said: "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives because of their pagan husbands. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess". That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period." [The Quran verse is 4:24]
Sunan Abu Dawud 2155


This is also confirmed here:
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (Quran 4:. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
Sahih Muslim 8:3432


And tafsir also confrims this:

And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle]; this is what God has prescribed for you.
Qur'an 4:24 Tafsir al-Jalalayn


Just so we are clear what revolting thing is being passed off as the "word of God" here.... women who Muslims managed to get physical control over are fair game for sex, even if the woman objects. You can rape them. It does not matter if they are married. You got them you use them. Just make sure that any kids resulting from these rapes are yours.

This is a "divine" sanction of sexual slavery.

But you still have no compunctions about Mohammed's credibility. The corruption and depravity of Mohammed really seems to have no limit.

This loathsome verse was cited in the trial of a Rotherham grooming gang, saying they obey the law of Allah, not the law of the kafir, and what they did is allowed for them.