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Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:36 am
by SAM


Here is what the Quran says,

“Do you not see that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and We produce thereby fruits of varying colors? And in the mountains are tracts, white and red of varying shades and (some) extremely black” (Surah Fatir verse 27)

“Soon we will show them Our signs in the regions (of the earth) and in their own souls until it becomes manifest to them that this (Quran) is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?” (Surah Fusshilat verse 53) :whistling:

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:38 am
by manfred
Is that why it rains SAM? Why does he send a lot more rain to London than to Mecca? Does Allah like London better?

And Allah colours fruit?

Also, SAM, there is this curious "logic" is the Qur'an. Look at this or that, that proves Islam. A bit like Trump saying "have you not seen my bank balance? I must be the best president ever." However good or bad Trump is as a president, his bank balance tell us nothing at all about that.

Now let's look closely together at what goes on in this clip.


A devout Muslim like you, SAM, found out about this range of mountains in China, in Zhangye National Geopark, and he was, like many of us, impressed. (There is another one like that, similar but smaller in Canada, but I think the clip is using the one from China)

Like many religious people, when seeing things in nature, specially impressive things like this, thoughts turn to God.

THEN, and only then, would he have looked and found a verse in the Qur'an that seems to relate to it somehow. And hey presto, another miracle in the Qur'an.

Or rather, another self-deception.

Look closely at the verse.


Have you not seen that God has sent water down from the sky, has produced fruits of various colors, and has made streaks of various colors in the mountains, white, red, and intense black.



Rain "sent down"? So Allah does not know about the water cycle? Then there are fruits of various colours. Well, are you surprised to learn there are different colour fruits?

Now, what about the mountains? Look closely. They are not described to be like the fruit. Three colours are mentioned in relations to the mountains. White red and black. Depending on the way you see the text, it can also mean different HUES of these colours.

Sadly you are in Singapore, and mountain ranges are not close by. Arabia does have them though. Perhaps you went to the Alps at one time? When the sun sets or rises you get plays of light on th mountains that look various colours red, or dark.

Here is a picture from the Italian Alps:



It shows the mountain called "Rosengarten" very early in the morning. Later in the day, it is a brown grey rock colour.

So what the Qur'an describes is not the incredible place in China, but something that Mohammed and his followers would have seen a thousand times much nearer to home. The mountains in the desert.

Here is an example:


Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:34 pm
by manfred
BTW, SAM, have you ever noticed that the Qur'an never mentions things like SNOW?

Also, about that other verse, The "signs" ... can you tell us about those?

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:29 pm
by Takeiteasynow
"And in the mountains are tracts, white and red of varying shades and (some) extremely black


Well, that's interesting. Nabataean Reqem (Petra/Hagiar) is named after Semitic root rqm, meaning 'a painting or embroidery of several colours or shade' or 'composed of varied colors''. Many rocks near Petra have rainbow-like tints and varied colors and deep dark shades on sandstone cliffs and mountains.

Image
Looking for white and red? Everything is around Petra.

Image
Or many colored mountains?

Image
Or very dark mountains?

Surah Fatir verse 27 refers to Petra.




.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:50 pm
by Hombre
:flamethrower: Hurray!!!! our SAMI is back. I started worrying about your trip to the Vatican - did you decide to convert to Christianity or you are a Christian masquerading as a"devout Muslim". Anyway thank for lighting up this blog.

Once again. Muhammad took a normal natural phenomenon like rain pouring down, and made it as though - Allah made him (Muhammad) the arbitrator & "explainer" of our universe.

These passages are found a plenty in the Hebrew Bible, in which earthquakes and lava eruptions are also described - like the Sodom & Gomorrah.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:57 pm
by Takeiteasynow
Quick addition

Have you not seen that God has sent water down from the sky



Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:32 pm
by manfred
Well, it is certainly intriguing that similar phenomena are also found near Petra. On its own not enough to be certain the Qu'an speaks about that, but we can be quite sure it must be referring to something that Mohammed's followers could easily relate to.

If you look at the textual context you see this:

And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their messengers with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment. In the end did I punish those who rejected Faith: and how (terrible) was My rejection (of them)!


This is immediately before.

So the passage about the rain, the fruit and the mountains, as well the comment in the next verse about variously coloured animals are an example of one of the Qur'an's "clear signs" statements. This is the reason I asked SAM (or any Muslim) to comment on those....

They always follow a certain pattern: Something anyone can see is pointed out, and presented as "evidence" for Islam. But instead of trying to really establish these things as proper evidence which of course is impossible, the Qur'an sidesteps that issue, and expresses threats of terrible things for those who do not believe instead.

A bit like this "Allah made the sky to be blue. You can see it is blue, can't you? So unless you follow Islam/accept Mohammed's claims, you will pay a very heavy price. You have seen the blue sky, so you have no excuse. But if you follow Islam you will get a huge reward."

The very odd logic in these passages are something of a topic in its own right. But the point is this: The whole thing ALWAYS points at something familiar to all as "clear sign".

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:57 pm
by Takeiteasynow
Well, it is certainly intriguing that similar phenomena are also found near Petra. On its own not enough to be certain the Qu'an speaks about that, but we can be quite sure it must be referring to something that Mohammed's followers could easily relate to.


Well sure, I took it out of a bigger context and by itself it's nothing more than potential circumstantial evidence. But if you take all the evidence into account such as
1) Geographical analysis by Dan Gibson;
2) The translation of the linguistical boundaries of the Quran into the geographical area of Arabia Petraea;
3) The enormous amount of linguistical, epigraphical and etymological evidence for a transposition for a pre-Islamic 'Judeo-Christian' pilgrimage to Makkah as provided by Robert Kerr;
4) The reconstruction of the pre-Islamic Haij to Petra (which is almost finished);
5) The available astrophysical studies on pre-Islamic pilgrimage to Petra;
6) The many links between the hadith and contemporary sources (for instance the singing girls)
.. the only conclusion is that it this fragment or surah refers to Petra. This surah was probably part of a oral tradition so the final step to blend all mentioned sources together in a 'grand theory' is to reconstruct the oral tradition. That's work in progress.

The very odd logic in these passages are something of a topic in its own right. But the point is this: The whole thing ALWAYS points at something familiar to all as "clear sign".

And that indicates that this Quranic chapter was originally a sermon, part of a pre-Islamic liturgy. And there's enough proof for it's existence: for instance the similarities between the Quran and the non-Biblical Gospel of Thomas.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:52 pm
by Takeiteasynow
They always follow a certain pattern: Something anyone can see is pointed out, and presented as "evidence" for Islam. But instead of trying to really establish these things as proper evidence which of course is impossible, the Qur'an sidesteps that issue, and expresses threats of terrible things for those who do not believe instead.


Hmm, I sort of overlooked the importance of this statement. It looks like this pattern is indeed repeated in multiple Quranic chapters, an indication for a systematical theological approach. This odd logic adds another layer of complexity to any data model trying to identify the dynamics behind the Quran and early Islam and requires a theological approach.

And yet there's more. Surah Fatir presents "clear signs" in what seems to be an Petraean context, in rejection or approval of the texts 'Books of dark prophecies', and the 'Book of Enlightenment'. These are Kabbalah books if I am not mistaken and may be an attempt to represent a mystical understanding of the Torah that is otherwise absent from Jewish writings. Now Petra had some kind of Greek philosophy school for many centuries, engaged in mysticism and magic.

So does Surah Fatir approve or reject these Kabbalah books? Any way, understanding Surah Fatir will make a huge difference.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:02 am
by manfred
I am not sure that a repetition of certain "themes" would amount to s systematic theological text. But you are right that much of the Qur'an is a rendering of sermons mostly by Mohammed, perhaps, with some later edits. The sources of these sermons are often biblical texts, but also other texts, apocrypha, the Talmud too, even Greek folklore.

What is also important to realise is that Mohammed's "sermons" are often "situational", i.e. designed to deal with specific issues Mohammed was confronted with at certain times. For example, wine was categorically forbidden only when a drunk group of Mohammed;s men failed to carry out a caravan raid successfully. Before then it was at least tolerated.

Another example is "Allah" threatening Mohammed's wives with poverty when they got upset and angry with Mohammed having sex with a servant girl. There are many such incidences.

Sure. sermons are often topical. What is less common is that religious teachings get changed to suit the preacher.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:53 am
by Takeiteasynow
I do agree with that so, as Dan Gibson does, I take the cultural patterns and geographical references from for instance the Hadith that can be verified. The possibility of changed or injected sermons is probably related to to changes in religious culture at the Abbasid court around 800 when fundamentalist views became prominent.

But with a systematic approach I aslo mean the Qu'ran stressing the continuity of the religious experience of the Semitic people as illustrated by Surat Fatir or "The Pilgrimage(!)" with its clear pattern for prophets: 'messengers before thee' , clear signs, scriptures or 'indications' (hints) and finally the code of conduct or a code of ethics (Book of Enlightenment). It's strange that the Quran or Islamic theology doesn't provide more information about the Kitab Al Munir or Book of Enlightenment as it is mentioned in two different chapters (22 and 3) and is seemingly part of long list of scriptures: Zabur, Book of Enlightenment, Divine Wisdom, Dark Prophecies, Scrolls of Abraham, Scrolls of Moses, Injil, Tawrat.

This indicates a long period of oral transmission with scriptures being a snapshot of theology and liturgy at a particular moment in time but yet still part of the same religious movement. And that requires a centralized location that maintained this tradition. Look for instance at the Essenes - how did this obscure sect suddenly learn how to write theological essays in a post Greek Academic style with knowledge of ancient traditions that can't be attested in Judea or Samaria or are suddenly introduced? And why do they suddenly infiltrate Jerusalem to make up 40% of its population around the year 0?

Any way, understanding the references to scriptures such as the 'Book of Enlightenment' will reveal much of the context. Book of Enlightenment? Sounds like the (New) Covenant to me.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:18 am
by iffo
SAM wrote:


Here is what the Quran says,

“Do you not see that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and We produce thereby fruits of varying colors? And in the mountains are tracts, white and red of varying shades and (some) extremely black” (Surah Fatir verse 27)

“Soon we will show them Our signs in the regions (of the earth) and in their own souls until it becomes manifest to them that this (Quran) is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?” (Surah Fusshilat verse 53) :whistling:


This is iran
Image
Image
Image

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:41 am
by Nosuperstition
manfred wrote:Why does he send a lot more rain to London than to Mecca? Does Allah like London better?


Well at bismikaallahuma,I have read about how Mohammed persists that receiving better providence from Allah either in the form of wealth or rain is no guarantee that you are in the right religion and only a conversion to Islam will please him.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:32 pm
by Fernando
Nosuperstition wrote:
manfred wrote:Why does he send a lot more rain to London than to Mecca? Does Allah like London better?


Well at bismikaallahuma,I have read about how Mohammed persists that receiving better providence from Allah either in the form of wealth or rain is no guarantee that you are in the right religion and only a conversion to Islam will please him.
That figures, Allah being Mo's alter ego.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:34 pm
by panis
manfred wrote:BTW, SAM, have you ever noticed that the Qur'an never mentions things like SNOW?

The Qur'an never mentions North and South

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:38 pm
by Nosuperstition
panis wrote:
manfred wrote:BTW, SAM, have you ever noticed that the Qur'an never mentions things like SNOW?

The Qur'an never mentions North and South


But North and South have mostly existed independently based on their own unique natural features.Haven't they?Perhaps not anymore once cheap fuel facilitated the massive exploitation of one by other.

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:38 pm
by Hombre
SAM wrote:
Here is what the Quran says,

“Do you not see that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and We produce thereby fruits of varying colors? And in the mountains are tracts, white and red of varying shades and (some) extremely black” (Surah Fatir verse 27)

“Soon we will show them Our signs in the regions (of the earth) and in their own souls until it becomes manifest to them that this (Quran) is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?” (Surah Fusshilat verse 53) :whistling:
You are corrupting the Holy Quran & distorting fact about the rainbow.

Here is the true message of the Quran:


Somewhere Over The Rainbow Lyrics

Somewhere over the rainbow
Way up high
There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby

Somewhere over the rainbow
Skies are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true

Someday I'll wish upon a star
And wake up where the clouds are far behind me
Where troubles melt like lemon drops
Away above the chimney tops
That's where you'll find me


Somewhere over the rainbow
Blue birds fly
Birds fly over the rainbow
Why then oh why can't I?

If happy little blue birds fly beyond the rainbow
Why oh why can't I?

After that song, the singer was so inspired and moved - she converted to Islam :cry:

Re: Rainbow coloured mountains in the Quran

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 pm
by Centaur
awaiting golden colored butt hole or carpet shaped flat earth miracles