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A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:04 pm
by sum
Hello muslims

I would like to ask if you approve and support the imposition of dhimmitude? Do you?

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:37 am
by sum
Where are Garudaman, Eagle and SAM et al?

Is this question too much of a hot potato for you? Are you afraid to answer my question?

They either defy Allah - not good - or agree with the Koran and show us how inhuman they are.

It is very clear how much they have been programmed to the extent that they have lost their humanity and shown to everyone how they reject the Golden Rule when it comes to non-muslims.

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:26 am
by Garudaman
Quran verse?

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:18 pm
by sum
Hello Garudaman

Try Koran 9:29.

Now tell me if you approve dhimmitude and jizya with what it entails.

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:38 pm
by Mughal
sum wrote:Hello muslims

I would like to ask if you approve and support the imposition of dhimmitude? Do you?

sum


Dear sum, to begin with one has to realise the fact that a country could be ruled by rule of law based upon the quran or some other rule of law.

If a country is ruled by rule of law based upon the quran then it has to be run by those who understand the quran properly and act upon it faithfully. So the question is, is rule of law based upon the quran the best rule of law possible or not? If it is then that is the way all countries in the world should be run. Why the rule of law based upon the quran is the best rule of law there is? This has been explained already elsewhere. For simple answer, the rule of law based upon the quran is a rule of law that ensures well being of all human beings regardless kufaar or muslim.

Now the question, can nonmuslim live in a country that is run by rule of law based upon the quran? Yes. Are there any restriction upon nonmuslims? Yes. They cannot be top government office holders in the country that is run on basis of rule of law based upon the quran. However there livelihood or well being is guaranteed because all people who live in a country ruled by rule of law based upon the quran are supposed to work together for ensuring well being of each other. Nonmuslims living in a country that is ruled by rule of law based upon the quran are not dhimmies rather they are free subjects of the kingdom based upon guidance of Allah.

For example, a muslim could have parents or relatives who are nonmuslims and he has to treat them as a muslim ought to treat his parents or relatives unless his parents or relatives do something which puts them out of this category into category of traitors or enemies of the country or kingdom based upon guidance of Allah. The same will happen even if a people were muslims and did something against the kingdom or its people. All law breakers are treated the same way for breaking the law of the land.

Dhimmitude does not apply to people living in a kingdom based upon rule of law of the quran. So where does it apply? It applies when two kingdoms or countries end up in a war with each other ie one ruled on the basis of the quran and the other not based upon the rule of law of the quran and the kingdom based upon rule of law of the quran takes over the other country or kingdom after its defeat. People who live by the quran are not allowed to attack any country or kingdom for no reason at all but they have every right to defend themselves when attacked by people who consider themselves as their enemies. Not only that in case of treachery by a people muslims are allowed to dismantle danger in order to save human lives and their livelihood.

The quran imposes upon its followers to deliver its message to all human beings everywhere in this world but in a best possible way. However the message of the quran is such that people who act as rulers, moneylenders or mullahs for a people they do not want this message to get through to their people. Why not? Because if the masses under those people get the message of the quran they will certainly rise up against their exploiters or manipulators or abusive users. This is why they do not want so this is why they do not want the message of the quran to be delivered to their masses so that they could continue abusive use of their people whom quran invites to a best possible life in this world as well as in hereafter. How can the quran give people best possible life in this world and in hereafter is explained elsewhere in detail and one should see it there.

This is why these very people who use humanity abusively contribute heavily towards keeping muslim masses confused through their rulers and money dealers and mullahs. This is the interference from nonmuslim countries into muslim countries so that deen of islam may not become obvious to masses muslim and nonmuslim alike. However if muslim masses living among nonmuslims wake up one day and start educating themselves about the quran based deen of islam and pass on the message to their fellow nonmuslim human beings then we will see a massive education based revolution that will change the governing system for good from nonmuslim to islamic system of government.

This should explain why muslims are allowed to build huge mosques in nonmuslim countries with massive grants from ruling classes and money lending classes of both namesake muslims and nonmuslims. Namesake muslim and nonmuslim rulers and money lenders and mullahs fully collaborate with each other for using masses abusively for their own agendas.

Coming back to dhimmitude, this is a matter of letting a people stay in their own countries or kingdoms under their own ruling system but only as a protectorate. This is so that they do not attack islamic empire again once they are defeated. However if they give up animosity and accept living under the rule of law of the quran they are always welcome to do so and there is no longer need for paying anything to the quran based kingdom at all as all people become a single family under God working together for ensuring well being of each other.

It is because people take things out of their proper context things become confusing. Deen of islam is about taking people out of slavery of each other so it is not about making each other slaves. War captives are given various options to get their freedom from captivity. This is because people who are considered a danger for other people they are kept at a distance or under control. This is why anti social or criminal or dangerous people are not allowed to go about everywhere freely anywhere in the world.

Moreover it is not possible to change from one system of government to another overnight rather people and things need time to reorganise and regulate or restructure etc etc but you can start a change and give it a reasonable time to complete. During this transition period some things could go wrong but once deen of islam based governing system is fully functional then all things should run smoothly for ensuring well being of all people in the kingdom based upon guidance of Allah.

regards and all the best.

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:55 am
by Garudaman
sum wrote:Hello Garudaman

Try Koran 9:29.

Now tell me if you approve dhimmitude and jizya with what it entails.

sum

well, based on QS. 4:88-92, QS. 22:39, QS. 9:13, jizya in QS. 9:29 is a compensation fine to the act of fight muslims without right reason, so dhimmi in QS. 9:29 are those who was charged with that fine, so tell me, is there any reason why people shouldnt approve that?

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:00 am
by sum
Hello Garudaman

You are like Mughal in disguise. You have your own interpretation of the Koran.

At the time that Koran 9:29 was revealed no-one was physically attacking Muhammad as he was the super-power in the region. You really do like to stress your claim that it was the non-muslims who were fighting Muhammad and without good reason. In Islam, fighting also means refusing to accept Allah and Muhammad as Allah`s prophet. Why on earth should anyone want to accept these two frauds? What is wrong with having your own beliefs and rejecting others?

Muslims have this supreme arrogance to assume that Islam is the unquestionable religious default position and that all should accept it or be subjected to Koran 9:29. Have you read Koran 9:29? You will note that if you want to keep your Christianity then you have to pay the Jizya with humility and feels subdued. It is meant to be a humiliating situation for the Christians who must abide by laws specifically for dhimmies.

Do you support this humiliation and dhimmitude of the Christians as demanded by Koran 9:29?

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:28 pm
by sum
Hello Garudaman

Come on, Garudaman, and reply to my post.

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:42 pm
by Garudaman
sum wrote:Hello Garudaman

You are like Mughal in disguise. You have your own interpretation of the Koran.

At the time that Koran 9:29 was revealed no-one was physically attacking Muhammad as he was the super-power in the region.

not super-power as Caesar : https://abuaminaelias.com/on-interpreta ... -of-tabuk/
Caesar mustered a huge army of the Byzantines and pro-Roman Ghassanite tribes to launch a decisive bloody battle against the Muslims.

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:34 pm
by frankie
Garudaman wrote:
sum wrote:Hello Garudaman

You are like Mughal in disguise. You have your own interpretation of the Koran.

At the time that Koran 9:29 was revealed no-one was physically attacking Muhammad as he was the super-power in the region.

not super-power as Caesar : https://abuaminaelias.com/on-interpreta ... -of-tabuk/
Caesar mustered a huge army of the Byzantines and pro-Roman Ghassanite tribes to launch a decisive bloody battle against the Muslims.



Garudaman

The objective of your faith is to "proclaim Islam over all religion "this was achieved by Mohammed, and subsequent Muslims, in obedience to the Quran through warfare, which should not be the case if Islam were a faith in line with all previous prophets of the Bible, whose messages were to repent from sin and to obey the commandments of God i.e.YHWH through His law of LOVE not violence.

Mohammed proved he was a false prophet because he came with a message of violence towards all non Muslims, from a different god called Allah not YHWH.

The Battle of Tabruk which you claim was a defensive war against the Romans, which then allegedly exonerates verse 9.29 which calls for fighting those who do not believe in Allah, is proved to be a false claim by a reading from Ibn Kathir's "Battles of the Prophet" which gives clear evidence that it was Mohammed and his armies which were on the attack to bring people to accept Islam, NOT the Romans.

As usual you give us your interpretation of Islamic events and not the truth as found within your own sources.

Whether this is purposeful deceit on your part, or ignorance of your faith, is any ones guess, whatever the case you do not present the truth.

Therefore, The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) decided to fight the Romans in order to call them to Islam. Allah Most High, says,
“O Ye who believer! Fight the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is whit those who fear Him. (At-Tawbah: 123)”



https://lastisland.wordpress.com/2007/1 ... -of-tabuk/

THE BATTLE OF TABUK
Posted by: Last Island on: November 14, 2007
• In: Ghazwat & Saryah
• Leave a Comment
According to the scholar of Syirah, this battle took place in Rajab, in 9th year of Hijra
OCCASION OF THE BATTLE

When Allah, Most High, ordered the believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque, Quraish thought that this would reduce their profits from trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High, compensated them and ordered them to fight the people of the Book until they embrace Islam or pay the Jizah,
Allah. Most High, says,

“O ye who believe! Truly the pagans ore unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah not the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, no acknowledge the religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission. and feel themselves subdued. (At-Tawbah: 28-29)”

Therefore, The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) decided to fight the Romans in order to call them to Islam. Allah Most High, says,
“O Ye who believer! Fight the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is whit those who fear Him. (At-Tawbah: 123)”

Moreover, Allah, Most High, urges the believers to go forth to fight in the Cause of Allah’s saying,
“Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but knew). If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long (and weighed0 on them. They would indeed swear by Allah, ‘If we only could, we should certainly have come out with you: ‘They would destroy their own souls; for Allah doth know that they are certainly lying. (At-Tawbah: 41-42)”

“It is not for the believers to go forth together if a contingent form every expedition go forth to devote themselves to studies on religion, and admonish the people when they return; that thus they (may learn) to guard themselves (against evil). (At-Tawbah: 122)”

The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) ordered his Companions to prepare to fight Romans at a time when men hard pressed; the heat was oppressive and there was drought; fruit was ripe and the men wanted to say in the shade with their fruit disliked traveling it that season.


Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:34 am
by sum
Hello Garudaman

Frankie has conclusively shown the errors of your argument.

Now tell us if you support the concept of dhimmitude.

Do you?

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:14 am
by sum
Hello Garudaman

You have still not told us if you support dhimmitude. Eagle has kept away because, like you, it would do Islam no good at all if either of you admitted that you supported dhimmitude which you must if you accept the Koran as the word of Allah.

Come on, be up front and tell us.

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:44 am
by sum
I think that we can safely conclude that Garudaman and the other muslims support the concept of dhimmitude. They are silent on this very specific question and by following Muhammad`s saying "Silence is consent" show their support for dhimmitude.

I hope that the guests to the forum take note of this which is an example of the belief that all true muslims hold, even though they are at present silent on this matter.

sum

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:37 pm
by Garudaman
yeah, but dhimmitude in actual meaning (compensation fine to the act of fight innocents without right reason), not dhimmitude in islamophobe meaning.

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:31 pm
by frankie
Garudaman wrote:yeah, but dhimmitude in actual meaning (compensation fine to the act of fight innocents without right reason), not dhimmitude in islamophobe meaning.


"When Allah, Most High, ordered the believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque, Quraish thought that this would reduce their profits from trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High, compensated them and ordered them to fight the people of the Book until they embrace Islam or pay the Jizah,Allah. Most High, says,

“O ye who believe! Truly the pagans ore unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah not the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, no acknowledge the religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission. and feel themselves subdued. (At-Tawbah: 28-29)”


Why does your explanation not agree with Allah's commands?

Re: A question for the muslims.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:12 pm
by sum
Hello Garudaman

You have continuously avoided letting us know if you support dhimmitude as directed in the Koran.

I can only conclude that your silence is consent and that you agree with dhimmitude.

sum